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Virtua Fighter 5 Ultimate Showdown - PS4 Exclusive, Out Now as Part of PS+ June/July 2021.

Kayin Amoh

By Kayin Amoh,
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Rsdio

Rsdio

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19 hours ago, Kayin Amoh said:

Well, either way be glad you aren't TheMainManSwe or whatever he's called. Having watched him play VF for about five minutes I'm now sure the average age of his audience can't be older than twelve, and he's acting accordingly. Screeching, claiming it has PS2 era graphics, getting upset at being comboed, the whole shebang.

 

Christ on a stick, he's intolerable. And he has an audience, like Logan Paul. The world is fucked.

Haha yeah, I read about this. Large chunks of the Tekken 'community' seemingly taking their cues on how to behave from him and Aris is a large part of why I could never manage to browse that subreddit for long. It even managed to impact the way I felt about playing it online since taking a single win and running always seemed to be the de facto approach - every time someone did it I'd hear 'One and DONE, biiiiiitch' in one of their voices in my head :lol: 

 

On the Wavedash podcasts I watched he surprised me by actually seeming alright. If it's all an act I'm not sure if it makes it better or worse.

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Goemon

Goemon

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1 hour ago, Faded said:

Yeah it’s a technique for recovering from a failed evade.

 

regarding the lag, I am also finding it very difficult to fit moves in between blocked 2p span that I would not struggle with offline. If I know they’re just gonna keep spamming I’ll block then 2p>buffered launcher. The 2p is fast enough that you’ll fit it in even with the lag and then with the advantage from that any 17 or less launcher will usually hit. 
 

you’re not really playing vf at this point though. 


This is something I kinda wanted to highlight too.

 

There’s like 2 games goes on. The game where no one knows what they’re really doing and it’s just a free for all, and then there’s the game where people know the ‘rules’ of VF.

 

These are very different games and you have to really get yourself out of the first game if you want to play the real VF otherwise you’ll have a bit of a rough time.

 

When you get yourself into a game where you’re playing someone who knows the rules too, the fight is very different and TBH the latency isn’t as noticeable due to the opponent reacting appropriately to stuff. The only way to get to these games though is to get your rank higher.

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Darwock

Darwock

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5 hours ago, Faded said:

Yeah it’s a technique for recovering from a failed evade.


This boggles my mind. In the evasion tutorial the <sidestep, dash, guard> have to be input in one continuous flow with a precise rhythm to succeed. Surely you would have to know in advance that the sidestep is going to fail, or you’d miss the input window for the dash guard cancel? I refuse to accept there are people who can do it on reaction!

 

Speaking of reactions, I did practice punishing a spammed 2P in training. I think the problem is actually me in the first part, netcode second. I couldn’t get the 66P out even on the training dummy (only after two blocked punches when she pushed me out of range of her own hits, then my one would land). I could just about respond with my own 2P. Do I need to buffer the move while I’m still holding guard?

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Darwock

Darwock

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5 hours ago, Goemon said:

 

When you get yourself into a game where you’re playing someone who knows the rules too, the fight is very different and TBH the latency isn’t as noticeable due to the opponent reacting appropriately to stuff. The only way to get to these games though is to get your rank higher.


In ranked matches I only get this type of opponent now, which is why I’ve gone back to studying the basics as I always lose. In room matches I get both, and the low level spammers always beat me too 😕

 

I do sometimes get lucky though… (saved this for the classic end to the 2nd round) :

 

 

 

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Goemon

Goemon

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1 hour ago, Darwock said:


This boggles my mind. In the evasion tutorial the <sidestep, dash, guard> have to be input in one continuous flow with a precise rhythm to succeed. Surely you would have to know in advance that the sidestep is going to fail, or you’d miss the input window for the dash guard cancel? I refuse to accept there are people who can do it on reaction!

 

Speaking of reactions, I did practice punishing a spammed 2P in training. I think the problem is actually me in the first part, netcode second. I couldn’t get the 66P out even on the training dummy (only after two blocked punches when she pushed me out of range of her own hits, then my one would land). I could just about respond with my own 2P. Do I need to buffer the move while I’m still holding guard?


You’re not reacting to failed evade. You learn this technique so you do it as default, your reaction is to when you evade successfully.

 

Yea, you need to practice your timing offline first. VF has a generous window of 10f (I think) of input leniency, so as long as you’re within 10f your move will come out on the first frame it can.

 

Basically just mess with your timing and see what you can get away with. For me as soon as I see the move blocked I’m inputting my counter.

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Faded

Faded

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When it comes to defensive techniques my muscle memory is so ingrained that I’ll auto do vf4/vf5 vanilla evade multi throw escapes. Never mind the fact you can’t escape more than one throw now, I’m  mashing out escapes to throw directions that no longer even exist in this game. 🤪

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Darwock

Darwock

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56 minutes ago, Faded said:

When it comes to defensive techniques my muscle memory is so ingrained that I’ll auto do vf4/vf5 vanilla evade multi throw escapes. Never mind the fact you can’t escape more than one throw now, I’m  mashing out escapes to throw directions that no longer even exist in this game. 🤪


Oh shit… that’s one of the few lessons I still remembered from VF4 Evo and I’d been trying to do it too, lol. Further proof that I shouldn’t go back to that game in order to learn this one.

 

I tried to do another training session with the Eileen player spamming 2P (that I recorded) - I just don’t get it 😕 I can’t even approach to allow her punch to connect with my block, so I can’t get the frame advantage to practice. She hits me once, I block, she’s already hit me twice, and either a) I have blocked, and now I’m pushed out of range so she keeps whiffing, or b) I tried to get out my 66P the instant I heard the first block but she still beats me. It’s mostly a). If I try to move closer I just take hits because she’s spamming so fast. I can jump in to range but rarely seem to manage the G into 66P after landing either.

 

Since this is a predictable training dummy I can just use some alternative move to beat it but that’s not what I’m trying to practice! When I looked at an online tutorial the guy just stands there on the spot going block/punish, block/punish, block/punish. Why is it not that simple for me…

 

edit - why can they not disclose the figures about player numbers? It’s a bit suss. Seems like all the fighting mans only played this for the few days before the new GG was released.

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Goemon

Goemon

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17 minutes ago, Darwock said:


Oh shit… that’s one of the few lessons I still remembered from VF4 Evo and I’d been trying to do it too, lol. Further proof that I shouldn’t go back to that game in order to learn this one.

 

I tried to do another training session with the Eileen player spamming 2P (that I recorded) - I just don’t get it 😕 I can’t even approach to allow her punch to connect with my block, so I can’t get the frame advantage to practice. She hits me once, I block, she’s already hit me twice, and either a) I have blocked, and now I’m pushed out of range so she keeps whiffing, or b) I tried to get out my 66P the instant I heard the first block but she still beats me. It’s mostly a). If I try to move closer I just take hits because she’s spamming so fast. I can jump in to range but rarely seem to manage the G into 66P after landing either.

 

Since this is a predictable training dummy I can just use some alternative move to beat it but that’s not what I’m trying to practice! When I looked at an online tutorial the guy just stands there on the spot going block/punish, block/punish, block/punish. Why is it not that simple for me…

 

edit - why can they not disclose the figures about player numbers? It’s a bit suss. Seems like all the fighting mans only played this for the few days before the new GG was released.


Record the dummy so there’s pause, low punch mash, pause, then play it back.
 

The pauses will allow you to get into position.

 

 

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Faded

Faded

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The easiest to use and widely applicable defensive technique in fs/us is yutori (lazy throw escape)

 

I haven’t done any of the tutorials so no idea if it’s covered. Just hold p+g making sure you hit g slightly earlier and whatever direction throw you wanna escape, 4, 6 or neutral. You’ll block highs and mids and even if you’re just uneducated guessing on the direction you have a 33% chance to escape a throw. 
 

Can be blown up in a variety of ways (guard breaks will really mess you up especially) but it’s a good start to thinking about defending against multiple threats at once at disadvantage. 
 

If I was struggling against 2p as lei I would embrace chaos and start whoring 9K+G. 
 

 

 

In other news I wish I was playing more of this but circumstances mean I seem to only manage to play Thursday evenings for any real length of time. Kage is sitting at lv23 rank with about 130 matches played or so. Couple weeks off coming up, really hope there’s at least something of an active player base by then still. 
 

 

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Faded

Faded

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1 hour ago, Darwock said:


Oh shit… that’s one of the few lessons I still remembered from VF4 Evo and I’d been trying to do it too, lol. Further proof that I shouldn’t go back to that game in order to learn this one.

 

I tried to do another training session with the Eileen player spamming 2P (that I recorded) - I just don’t get it 😕 I can’t even approach to allow her punch to connect with my block, so I can’t get the frame advantage to practice. She hits me once, I block, she’s already hit me twice, and either a) I have blocked, and now I’m pushed out of range so she keeps whiffing, or b) I tried to get out my 66P the instant I heard the first block but she still beats me. It’s mostly a). If I try to move closer I just take hits because she’s spamming so fast. I can jump in to range but rarely seem to manage the G into 66P after landing either.

 

Since this is a predictable training dummy I can just use some alternative move to beat it but that’s not what I’m trying to practice! When I looked at an online tutorial the guy just stands there on the spot going block/punish, block/punish, block/punish. Why is it not that simple for me…

 

edit - why can they not disclose the figures about player numbers? It’s a bit suss. Seems like all the fighting mans only played this for the few days before the new GG was released.


 

Best way to record this is to add a dash before the move you’re trying to beat. 
 

actually I should be heading to bed but fuck if this will only take a few mins…

 

 

 

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Darwock

Darwock

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Oh that’s great stuff, both the tips on recording the dummy and the other stuff. I figured the opponents that cause trouble are mashing all the time so I should do the same with the training dummy, but it makes sense to make it a bit more manageable for the sake of practicing technique.

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Faded

Faded

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No worries. I like starting with ideal circumstances so regardless of anything else I know what does work numbers wise. In this case I can block 2P and stuff it with 66P. Learn what the timing is. From there you can move on to why it might not be working mid match. It’s hard to react to a single 2p in isolation, but if it’s being spammed and you know you have the correct execution from experience then you can chalk it up to lag and go wild. 
 

also what recording mashed 2p does a good job of showing is just how stubby the reach of it is. A lot of times 2p abusers get away with murder because we keep trying to challenge it. Backdash launcher is good too. 

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Kayin Amoh

Kayin Amoh

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3 hours ago, Faded said:

 

In other news I wish I was playing more of this but circumstances mean I seem to only manage to play Thursday evenings for any real length of time. Kage is sitting at lv23 rank with about 130 matches played or so. Couple weeks off coming up, really hope there’s at least something of an active player base by then still. 

 

You and me both, brother. A Virtua Fighter resurgence and I barely have time to play the damn thing, and when I do I'm too tired to concentrate so I wind up playing something more manageable. Agh.

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Darwock

Darwock

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@Faded I thought you would be asleep by now, lol

 

I’ve just come out of ‘the lab’, and for the first time felt like it did me some good.

 

What I noticed:

 

The 66P has to be input as soon as she starts moving, not when her hit is blocked (that is much too late). That also means inputting the dash portion while still holding guard, and just switching to the punch button after the block happens. I suppose that makes it more about predicting an attack than reacting to one.

 

I can get an easier opening with a 3P, and if I G cancel that punch I can start a new string which leads into Lei-Fei’s stance attacks (works on a dummy, probably not on a player that actually guards in return, but it feels nice in training). However it seems that if I input the 3P with the same timing as the 66P, it won’t come out at all. This one needs to be done on the block itself.

 

My favourite move to start stuff off is 33PP, and this one can also be squeezed in but the timing here is so harsh that it basically needs to be planned in advance, and so probably isn’t much use as a punish. I probably only pull it off 50% of the time. Checking on the move list that one has 16 frame execution, so only a 1 frame margin of error?

 

I want to do loads more practice to try and build some muscle memory of this stuff, but I’m worried that all the amateur players will have stopped playing before I feel ready to go back into real matches 😕 If I jump back in now I’ll probably end up slipping back into old bad habits.

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Kayin Amoh

Kayin Amoh

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24 minutes ago, Vemsie said:

I really want to jump in but I don't have a fight stick which I guess is a must?

 

I get by fine on a pad. There's a few downsides regarding button accessibility, but you can mitigate some of them with the shoulder buttons.

 

For instance, Vanessa's 44K+G can be cancelled if you hold guard and let go of kick. You can't really do it with the shoulder button, and K+G are Tri / X on the PS pad for me. On the whole though, it's perfectly playable with a pad.

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Faded

Faded

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8 hours ago, Darwock said:

@Faded I thought you would be asleep by now, lol

 

I’ve just come out of ‘the lab’, and for the first time felt like it did me some good.

 

What I noticed:

 

The 66P has to be input as soon as she starts moving, not when her hit is blocked (that is much too late). That also means inputting the dash portion while still holding guard, and just switching to the punch button after the block happens. I suppose that makes it more about predicting an attack than reacting to one.

 


Nah if you look at that second clip I posted I don’t put any inputs in until after the punch connects. You just have to squeeze everything inside the recovery frames. Input display is good for this as you can see how long it’s you to execute things. 
 

that said I think getting in the habit of interrupting the low p with an easier input like 3p is much better to focus on in the short term and once your reactions improve executing something like 66p can be added in. 

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Faded

Faded

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Don’t get me wrong. It’s not an easy buffer in that window. I doubt I’d be able to do that mid match if I wasn’t expecting it. (Doubt is being kind, I wouldn’t) 
 

I do think it’s healthy to not worry about responding optimally and just find something that works for you in the situations you find yourself in. Most of the time I’m just yolo’ing it myself so my advice should never be taken too seriously. 

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Darwock

Darwock

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I’m not really sure how to learn how to deal with anything, other than using each character myself so I know roughly what it is they are doing. Giving only a 33% chance of hitting the right direction on a throw escape means you have to know everybody’s throws, doesn’t it? I always choose wrong.

 

I am currently winning only about 10% of my ranked matches, no idea how to deal with close range jab mix-ups at all. This especially hurts with Jean and Jackie who seem to take 75% of my health bar in about five hits each. The practice with block/punish that I did only works when they do the same move over and over.

 

I could feel my stress shooting up when I started losing every round, and was telling myself that I just need to put the time in to get familiar with different opponents as I mashed the rematch button, but I think I wasn’t really in the frame of mind to actually learn anything. I can lose for hours in room matches and treat it as a learning experience, but as soon as the results are being recorded it changes things. Stupid, I know.

 

edit - for reference, I’ve done over 100 ranked matches now and always had a perfect connection. I’ve got something like 300 room matches done but those are frequently laggy,

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