Stay Strong, Don't Buy It, You Won't Enjoy It

[carlospie]

1 hour ago, Giddas said:

I got GamePass relatively recently. Problem is the majority of the games on there I'm interested in I've already played on PC.

 

I've installed Outriders and it's all right, I'll probably play it for a few hours. But if I'd paid £70 for it I wouldn't be happy... it feels generic.

 

You would be happy though, because that's what people have accepted now.

 

Returnal isn't going to be that great but it's clearly sold at 70 quid and other publishers will be rubbing their mittens together. 

 

70 will become the new 40

[dataDave]

7 minutes ago, carlospie said:

70 will become the new 40

 

Indeed. Give it two weeks and check the used section.

[moosegrinder]

Yeah, it'll only be £65 then.

[Gorf King]

15 minutes ago, carlospie said:

You would be happy though, because that's what people have accepted now.

 

Returnal isn't going to be that great

 

Hark at Mystic Meg here.

 

My alternative yet non-existent thread title: give something new a go, it might just surprise you. I mean, I'm predictably crap at Returnal but it's been great fun so far, a game with a singular approach that stands out from the crowd and one that feels like it's had lots of love and imagination poured into it. If you feel £70 is too much to spend on a game, like others have said, just wait a bit until the price drops. No big deal really, but the forum's current obsession with launch price point obscuring most other aspects of the actual game is a bit sad really. Not somewhere you'd want to come to share enthusiasm for new experiences these days. 

[Triple A]

I knew this thread was about Returnal!

[Keyboard Koala]

I think one of the things that's always a pitfall, is series loyalty. Gamers keep buying games of one series long after they've stopped actually enjoying them. They continue buying them nonetheless because they used to enjoy the series, and hope the next iteration will bring back that enjoyment. For me that's true for the FF series, Dragon Quest, Resident Evil (still on the fence on this one) and the Yakuza games. I think you should be able to let a series go, if you've actually stopped enjoying it long ago.

[MoFo2]

I’ve bought probably 10+ Zelda-games and have finished 1. Starting to doubt the little intellect I have.

[Gotters]

5 minutes ago, Triple A said:

I knew this thread was about Returnal!

 

it's not, its for people to try and jolt or talk themselves out of making a purchase that they know isn't for them and they'll ditch within an hour

 

[carlospie]

57 minutes ago, Gorf King said:

 

Hark at Mystic Meg here.

 

My alternative yet non-existent thread title: give something new a go, it might just surprise you. I mean, I'm predictably crap at Returnal but it's been great fun so far, a game with a singular approach that stands out from the crowd and one that feels like it's had lots of love and imagination poured into it. If you feel £70 is too much to spend on a game, like others have said, just wait a bit until the price drops. No big deal really, but the forum's current obsession with launch price point obscuring most other aspects of the actual game is a bit sad really. Not somewhere you'd want to come to share enthusiasm for new experiences these days. 

It's not sad at all really. Look at the football super six incident recently to see what power the consumer holds.

 

 

 

But nope. Just buy bog standard games for 70 quid

 

But I wrote in the wrong thread 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gorf King]

I think you've got me wrong: I think the game's worth £70. I don't regret spending £70* on the game. In terms of consumer power, I'd much rather give them money for this than a ton of other games that are priced lower, because I want to encourage games like this to be made. I buy relatively few games compared to most on here, so the money isn't a big deal - I don't rack up massive backlogs of games, and if I don't really love a game I'll just bin it and generally avoid that sort of thing in the future. This seemed intriguing and worth a punt, so rather than rely on reviewers I gave it a go, and it's been worth it so far.

 

Don't bring football fans' 'consumer power' into this, especially big club supporters. Most of them threw their money at Murdoch and Sky so hard for so many years - and still do - that the other billionaires were inevitably going to smell the blood in the water and move in. Especially when that blood was oh-so-freely let. But maybe that's for another thread, like the consumer power that leads some of us to gratefully hand over half a grand for a console we barely use or bang a thousand or two on a PC - and then stockpile games for them that cost next to nothing. Like iPhone owners who pay a grand for a phone but barely spend any money on the music they play on it, or people with ten different film/TV streaming subs just in case they miss anything who'll hardly watch 1% of what's on there. I'm sure all that cash goes straight to the right places and supports poor starving artists to make works of genuine value.

 

Consumer power my arse. The forum, like most of the world, is consumerism central. £70 for a fairly small developer putting out a next-gen exclusive that isn't designed by the marketing men and stands out from the crowd? No problem paying for that at all. But you keep sticking it to the man, you revolutionary free spirit. 

 

* Edit - actually it was £60.x because of cheap credit, but whatever.

[Waggo]

In a Sony office somewhere is a pie chart on a flip-board, which will show the breakdown of consumers their market researches are telling them are willing to pay £70 for a game.  

 

Guess people can’t help it if they fall into the sucker segment, as it is only market demographics at work.
 

 

[scoobysi]

1 hour ago, carlospie said:

 

Returnal isn't going to be that great

lol have you gone back in time prior to the previews/reviews. 

[Gorf King]

In a Microsoft office somewhere is a pie chart on a flip-board which will show the breakdown of consumers their market researches are telling them are willing to be suckered into a sub that ties them to the company for cheap and then drastically raise prices in the future, meanwhile playing games they'd never otherwise have shelled out for and becoming data farmers for moonbucks.

 

In an Apple office somewhere is a pie chart on a flip-board which will show the breakdown of consumers their market researches are telling them are willing to pay £1000 for a phone and £10 a month for an Apple Music sub and then never buy any actual music again from artists.

 

In a Google office somewhere they lost the pie chart on a flip-board in a freak data loss incident and, working hastily with a biro on the back of a beer mat, came up with Stadia. And how we laughed!

 

All corps have flip charts and market research. Sadly, imagining that this extends to only a small number of them places you firmly in the aformentioned sucker segment. I'm sure your corporations of choice will be very proud.

[Waggo]

I don’t have a corporation of choice though being as though I own Xbox, PlayStation and Nintendo.

 

The choice I do make is I will not pay £70 for a game on any of them no matter how great it looks.

[carlospie]

10 minutes ago, scoobysi said:

lol have you gone back in time prior to the previews/reviews. 

If the game came out in non covid, ordinary time with other games out, it wouldn't be getting this much attention. The same thing happened with outriders. There are thousands of gamers sat with their new consoles desperate for something new to play on them. Same thing happened with outriders. Day one - this is so good. Day five - I'm glad I didn't pay full price for this.

 

In a few days the rllmuk thread will be full of people saying oh this isn't for me, oh the gameplay is pretty basic actually, oh this looks like an up Res PS4 game.

 

The trading thread will be full of 50 percent of the copies bought in the next two weeks. 

[carlospie]

27 minutes ago, Gorf King said:

I think you've got me wrong: I think the game's worth £70. I don't regret spending £70* on the game. In terms of consumer power, I'd much rather give them money for this than a ton of other games that are priced lower, because I want to encourage games like this to be made. I buy relatively few games compared to most on here, so the money isn't a big deal - I don't rack up massive backlogs of games, and if I don't really love a game I'll just bin it and generally avoid that sort of thing in the future. This seemed intriguing and worth a punt, so rather than rely on reviewers I gave it a go, and it's been worth it so far.

 

Don't bring football fans' 'consumer power' into this, especially big club supporters. Most of them threw their money at Murdoch and Sky so hard for so many years - and still do - that the other billionaires were inevitably going to smell the blood in the water and move in. Especially when that blood was oh-so-freely let. But maybe that's for another thread, like the consumer power that leads some of us to gratefully hand over half a grand for a console we barely use or bang a thousand or two on a PC - and then stockpile games for them that cost next to nothing. Like iPhone owners who pay a grand for a phone but barely spend any money on the music they play on it, or people with ten different film/TV streaming subs just in case they miss anything who'll hardly watch 1% of what's on there. I'm sure all that cash goes straight to the right places and supports poor starving artists to make works of genuine value.

 

Consumer power my arse. The forum, like most of the world, is consumerism central. £70 for a fairly small developer putting out a next-gen exclusive that isn't designed by the marketing men and stands out from the crowd? No problem paying for that at all. But you keep sticking it to the man, you revolutionary free spirit. 

 

* Edit - actually it was £60.x because of cheap credit, but whatever.

 

I never said you were right or wrong. Some people would gladly spend hundreds of pounds on a bottle of wine or whiskey. That's their choice. It's your choice if you want to pay 70 quid for a game. It's your money do with it what the hell you want. 

[Gorf King]

Think of the greatest game you've ever played, you've ever known. Don't you think that was/is worth £70?

 

Over the years I've spent - I dunno, probably £200-£300 (?) on Destiny games. That's over 7-8 years. Totally, utterly worth it, every penny. I can't complain about the value of that proposition at all on any level. But that's because, flaws and all, I love Destiny. I think it's right up there with the greats.

 

If a small developer releases a title for £70 and it ends up as my GOTY - is that worth it, for the best gaming experience of the year? What if it's unique, compelling, different from the rest? I'm not saying it will be, but what if it is? Is that not worth £70? (Or £60 cos everyone does the credit thing, or £55 on disc if you get that deal.) Because if it's not, I'd question the wisdom of buying every console going, which must have cost roughly £1300 without extras. What's all the hardware for if £70 is too much to pay for the best stuff you can play on them? Would people not have paid £70 (or actually £60) for whatever their top games were for their new hardware?

 

I dunno, but it seems a bit arse over tit to me. That way you end up buying two copies of a console you never play and no games for it that are any good. Not that this would ever happen...

[Gorf King]

Just now, carlospie said:

I never said you were right or wrong. Some people would gladly spend hundreds of pounds on a bottle of wine or whiskey. 

 

Now don't get me started! Those people are fools. Damn fools!

[carlospie]

I don't buy every console. I buy one per gen. Last year was PlayStation and this year Xbox.

 

I bought gamepass for three years and I have a second hand copy of RDR2 that I bought for 9 pounds. It is one of my favourite games I have ever played and love it. But fuck paying seventy quid for it.

[scoobysi]

2 minutes ago, carlospie said:

If the game came out in non covid, ordinary time with other games out, it wouldn't be getting this much attention. The same thing happened with outriders. There are thousands of gamers sat with their new consoles desperate for something new to play on them. Same thing happened with outriders. Day one - this is so good. Day five - I'm glad I didn't pay full price for this.

 

In a few days the rllmuk thread will be full of people saying oh this isn't for me, oh the gameplay is pretty basic actually, oh this looks like an up Res PS4 game.

 

The trading thread will be full of 50 percent of the copies bought in the next two weeks. 

A time travelling clairvoyant no less.

[Sarlaccfood]

2 minutes ago, carlospie said:

I have a second hand copy of RDR2 that I bought for 9 pounds. It is one of my favourite games I have ever played and love it. But fuck paying seventy quid for it.

RDR2 wouldn’t exist if everyone did that thought.

[Waggo]

2 minutes ago, carlospie said:

 

I bought gamepass for three years and I have a second hand copy of RDR2 that I bought for 9 pounds. It is one of my favourite games I have ever played and love it. But fuck paying seventy quid for it.

Exactly this.

 I do have all 3 consoles but that is so I can play every game that interests me.  I am interested in Returnal and will play it in due course and at the right price, but that ain’t anything like £70 quid.  In the meantime I have plenty of other games to be working through across all 3 machines.

[carlospie]

4 minutes ago, Sarlaccfood said:

RDR2 wouldn’t exist if everyone did that thought.

It would. Because they would make the games and sell them for less money.

[Sarlaccfood]

So we’re encouraging people not to spend money on new interesting things now? Got it.

[ChewMagma]

I mean Gorf is kind of right, but also £70 is a lot of fucking money so who knows really. I buy and play a lot of games, if they all cost £70, I'd be buying a lot less and less developers would be getting my money, whether it was your one man indie outfit or your Naughty Dogs. Similarly, I like to buy vinyl. The price of vinyl is now absurd. I buy about 5 records a year tops and only stuff I have heard and consider a stone cold classic. I'm not chancing my money on anything else.

 

It might be good in this instance that a small developer has put out a game that appears to be a stone cold classic and is worth £70 but overall it probably isn't a great price point for small developers. Rather than being given the freedom to do cool stuff in future, what is more likely to happen is that publishers will say "give me the next Returnal" and we will see a narrowing of what games can be developed to justify the price tag.

[carlospie]

No. What I'm saying is the value of anything in the whole world is based on what people accept to pay for it. If everyone had bought RDR2 at launch for 70 quid, then all games nowadays would be 70 quid. But at that time the publishers would have known it wouldn't have been accepted. 

 

This gen, anything goes. We had a Sony shite car game at launch that was going to launch at 70 quid, and people didn't bat an eyelid. What was in that game to justify it costing 30 pounds more? Absolutely nothing but they were testing the market.

 

What is in returnal that makes it 30 pounds better than any other game? Do you get a promise for all future dlc? No. Do you get the sequel? No. You get the base game. The same base game that if it launched a year ago on PS4 would have cost you no more than 40 pounds. So if people are happy to buy these games for 70 quid, what's to stop the next COD game being released at £100 now? Nothing at all. They have proven that people will buy returnal for 70 quid so why not keep going up and up. 5 years ago £70 would get you a copy of a game, a tin box, some dlc pass and a statue. Now your happy to pay that for basically a disc that sets off a download for a patch.

 

How much do other things cost to make and sell? Do you think a £30,000 golf R car costs that much to make or is it because people have accepted that is what it is worth? Same with your new iPhone 12 xr super duper XXL cheeseburger edition. How much does that actually cost to make and how much have the public accepted to pay for it? Last I saw it was £1200? So in 2021 we deem an iphone to be of the same value as a top spec gaming pc a few year ago or a PS4 pro with a beast TV 3 years ago?

 

Gaming is in a very very fragile time at this moment and is running the risk of isolating a huge proportion of the people who buy their games.

 

As I say, it's your seventy quid to spend on whatever you want, but I will never ever spend 70 quid on a bog standard edition of any game, no matter what console it is on.

[Gorf King]

I dunno, I find the whole concept of having lots of games to be 'working through' a bit odd, but maybe it's me that's a bit odd. It shouldn't feel like you're 'working through' anything. A lot of the appeal of games, for me at least, has always been the shock of the new, how developers and manufacturers have advanced the form, have mixed things up, and to have the shared novel experience of that with other enthusiasts. Else why buy these hard-to-get expensive machines on launch day? If there's plenty of old stuff to 'work through' - and I'm not saying there isn't - why bother day one with sourcing two consoles that cost almost a grand between them? 

 

I just find the concept of insisting on having next-gen consoles but not wanting to pay more than fifty quid for a game, however good and next-gen it is, a bit odd. It reminds me of latest iPhone syndrome, but nah I'm not actually going to buy anything for it, anything that actually needs that hardware. I just like to have things, and games and music and films aren't really things. Things are hardware. That's worth a lot of money, but the content isn't. It's just a service. Just something to fill the space in the hardware, the space in my time.

[Kayin Amoh]

£70 is a lot of money. I won't be paying it, and I'm not going to fall for the 'oh, but you're financing creativity' argument either. I've bought plenty of things in the past to support a publisher, and they've then been closed down soon afterwards. I'm sure they'll survive without my £70, and if they can't, they can't survive with it either. Maybe if I could force millions of people to buy something I like, or not buy something I dislike.

 

All I know is that £70's too much for me when I have a great collection of games at my beck and call - and also the ceaseless value of Game Pass. I'll personally just wait and then buy them for £20 or less down the line. FOMO's not that strong with me.

[Gorf King]

18 minutes ago, ChewMagma said:

I mean Gorf is kind of right, but also £70 is a lot of fucking money so who knows really. I buy and play a lot of games, if they all cost £70, I'd be buying a lot less and less developers would be getting my money, whether it was your one man indie outfit or your Naughty Dogs. Similarly, I like to buy vinyl. The price of vinyl is now absurd. I buy about 5 records a year tops and only stuff I have heard and consider a stone cold classic. I'm not chancing my money on anything else.

 

I'm sort of similar with games though: I'll only buy a very few a year, sometimes five or so, sometimes even fewer. But I think a lot of people - and they document it quite well here, so this isn't an assumption - just like to hoard games. Backlog of shame or whatever. Everything's there (well, sadly not everything, but everything whoever offers me the bargain deal/sub puts there) just for if you feel like playing it, but I don't really love (m)any of them. I just play them to get through them. It was ok. That one gave a lot of gamerscore. I mean, sure, by all means do that. But I don't believe that means someone who thinks a gem is worth more than fifty whole pounds makes them a sucker. Maybe they're just willing to pay for something they actually want to spend their - far more valuable than any sum of money - time on.

 

Incidentally, I don't think Returnal selling will suddenly set the bar at £70 for all indie games. 

[deerokus]

No game ever made has ever been worth 70 quid.