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The Ticking time bomb in PS4 (and PS3) consoles or Turn Your Expensive Console into an Official Brick!


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To be fair, that's a pretty standard lifespan for a clock battery (see e.g. the Dreamcast CMOS). The difference is, when the Dreamcast's dies, you only have to replace it if you don't want to have to reset the console date and time every time you unplug it, rather than needing to replace it and get a live connection to some sort of Sega Network in order to be allowed to keep playing your games.

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12 minutes ago, Keyboard Koala said:

Most sources seem to say about 10 years -I've only had mine for 8, so can't confirm- which is imo too short for a console, and will make retro gaming on original hardware a thing of the past.

Well that's me soon to be fucked. I have a launch day Jpn machine. And I still play it often, in fact I was playing Virtua Fighter 10th Anniversary an hour ago.

 

Does anyone know if you're jailbroken whether you can negate the need of a replacement and reconnect? I know the servers are still fine but I'd rather not bother replacing the thing if I can get around having to.

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This reminds me, it's going to be great in another decade's time when the DS-and-later handhelds' batteries start expiring and nobody is actively manufacturing new ones. Those things have a shelf life and it's not like they're a bunch of 18650 cells in a case like an old-school laptop battery.

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12 minutes ago, amc said:

Well that's me soon to be fucked. I have a launch day Jpn machine. And I still play it often, in fact I was playing Virtua Fighter 10th Anniversary an hour ago.

 

Does anyone know if you're jailbroken whether you can negate the need of a replacement and reconnect? I know the servers are still fine but I'd rather not bother replacing the thing if I can get around having to.

 

Surely that's over 10 years already?

 

I think the best we can do would be to find someone skilled enough (ie. who does this for a living) to safely replace the blighters, so we can have at least another 10 years.

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3 minutes ago, Keyboard Koala said:

Surely just plugging them in when you want to play helps?

 

My GBAs batteries are all knackered, so I have to plug them in each time I want to play them.

 

Y'know, I'd remembered some consoles as requiring a healthy battery before they'd actually boot up even on mains power, but I thought the GBA SP was one of them so maybe I'm wrong.

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6 minutes ago, Alex W. said:

 

Y'know, I'd remembered some consoles as requiring a healthy battery before they'd actually boot up, but I thought the GBA SP was one of them so maybe I'm wrong.

 

Could be, but I just checked and it's definitely not the GBA.

 

Boktai forever, dude. Maybe with an extension cord though :p

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18 minutes ago, Alex W. said:

This reminds me, it's going to be great in another decade's time when the DS-and-later handhelds' batteries start expiring and nobody is actively manufacturing new ones. Those things have a shelf life and it's not like they're a bunch of 18650 cells in a case like an old-school laptop battery.

 

That's been a problem with PSP batteries for a while (they particularly like to swell and eventually destroy the console, which is a fun time), but they're at least readily replaceable. I've not looked at the state of DS/3DS/Vita/Switch battery replacement, though!

 

15 minutes ago, Keyboard Koala said:

Surely just plugging them in when you want to play helps?

 

My GBAs batteries are all knackered, so I have to plug them in each time I want to play them.

 

The above is the bigger issue for me - batteries can become unsafe outside of their lifespan, and need to be removed. If they aren't designed to be a) easily removed, and/or b) are hooked into the system in a way which means you need a battery present to complete the power circuit, even when plugged in, then their lifespan/ability to purchase repalcements becomes more critical. I really don't know the situation with any of the above consoles, though, so it may be a non-issue for some of them at least.

 

27 minutes ago, amc said:

Well that's me soon to be fucked. I have a launch day Jpn machine. And I still play it often, in fact I was playing Virtua Fighter 10th Anniversary an hour ago.

 

Does anyone know if you're jailbroken whether you can negate the need of a replacement and reconnect? I know the servers are still fine but I'd rather not bother replacing the thing if I can get around having to.

 

Sadly, not to my knowledge, or at least not in the way you would want. Custom firmware can switch off the requirement... but in so doing you'll lose access to your own library. In order to keep your games, you'd need to first manually back up all of your own games along with their license files (by downloading them on your PS3 and then transferring to a PC using methods Sony wouldn't support), then switching firmware, then transferring back to it. I.e. you'd need need to pirate your own games to do it. And you'd need to follow a similar process for your saves. And obviously once you've done that you won't be able to safely access the network with your newly customised PS3, unless you really like having your account banned; though with the store going away a large part of the reason you'd want to do so is at least going away.

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I emailed the Play date developers about this point, asking if the battery would be user-serviceable. They actually replied that it was, and they were using a commodity part that should still be in production when the need arises. Reminds me I meant to email Analog about the Pocket.

 

Edit - It’s in the FAQ, you need to send it back to them for service to get the battery replaced. :lol: Yeah, I can scratch that off my wish list.

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32 minutes ago, Keyboard Koala said:

Surely just plugging them in when you want to play helps?

 

My GBAs batteries are all knackered, so I have to plug them in each time I want to play them.

 

An original DS ( Phat ) battery will fit in the GBA SP if you snip off the sticky outy bits of plastic ;)

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10 minutes ago, Alex W. said:

Reminds me I meant to email Analog about the Pocket.

 

Edit - It’s in the FAQ, you need to send it back to them for service to get the battery replaced. :lol: Yeah, I can scratch that off my wish list.

 

Yeah, I saw that and immediately wrote it off (which is a shame, as the Mega SG is a wonderful piece of hardware). Seems a crazy design decision for a niche product whose raison d'être is giving players a way to play their old games, to include a non-user-replaceable limited-lifespan component. And that's before you consider how much Analogue struggle to produce enough hardware (and the whole 'being in America'/'far from guaranteed to still exist in ten years' issues), meaning that they're not a company I'd trust to reliably be in a position service a machine!

 

Daft.

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2 hours ago, Camel said:

Saturn is best: remove battery cover (no screwdriver required) , replace battery. I don't know why they didn't stick with this for Dreamcast :(


Or better yet, the screeching competition the VMUs have after their tiny little batteries fully gave up the ghost after 3 months of service. Great design!

 

The counter-argument to all of this seems to be - one way or another, all electronics succumb to obsolescence, be it parts failure or otherwise, and we should just accept it for what it is - and while this thread is full of examples of that from the past, I think there are a few key differentiators that mean this is not applicable in this case:

 

The scenario under which the obsolescence is effected is entirely foreseeable and avoidable; Sony can take steps to prevent it, unlike, say, parts failure, which they can’t, and shouldn’t be expected to

 

We are now much wiser to this problem, care about preservation more generally and have seen good examples of how to avoid software obsolescence (Xbox BC, Steam)

 

There’s still a good case to be made for hardware preservation, but I do think that’s a fool’s errand and only to be pursued by preservationists - which is why I think ultimately Sony gets a pass here; almost all PS4 games can be played on PS5 and their streaming options for PS3 games is not bad. It could all be better, for sure, and yes, until they tombstone the PS3 officially, it’s all conjecture, but it probably will happen.
 

Hey, no games console is going to last as long as a stone slab from the Roman era, echoed with a message in it for all time, but this one can and should be avoided. 

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11 hours ago, Keyboard Koala said:

Most sources seem to say about 10 years -I've only had mine for 8, so can't confirm- which is imo too short for a console, and will make retro gaming on original hardware a thing of the past.

 

I've had mine since 2007. A big old phat model. Still working. I play it daily. But this has now scared me. I thought someone was going to say they last 25 years or more. Jesus.

 

I AM LIVING ON BORROWED TIME.

 

Especially annoying since I just dropped £100 panic buying stuff on PSN.

 

Just yesterday I was going through the extremely excellent Game of Thrones RPG. Suppose I better hurry and finish the bastard before the system dies. :unsure:

 

I have over 100 digital games on it, and if the battery only lasts 10 years, they're basically all dead now.

 

How easy is it to even replace a CMOS battery? I once replaced a CDI battery, and it required either desoldering a the timex chip, or I did the easy route of cutting the fucker out, tumour style, then soldering a new battery frame in its place (the CDI had the absolute worst set-up for time-keeping batteries - it was actually cemented in place, isolated entirely inside a block of plastic).

 

The X360 doesn't even have a time-keeping function. If you unplug the system, like I do every time I don't play it, the clock resets to 2005. And everything still works fine. It's kinda funny, because all of my save files claim to be from the same day, Groundhog's Day style. :lol:

 

Has anyone here tried replacing the PS3 CMOS? Should we all be doing this right now and then resetting the system online? I keep hearing people say "oh well they'll just keep the servers running forever" - to which I reply, say that to poor bastards who bought Vita dev kits just before they shut the store.

 

Sometimes I feel like a lot of people on this forum have some sort of Stockholm syndrome for Sony.

 

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20 minutes ago, Sketch said:

Sometimes I feel like a lot of people on this forum have some sort of Stockholm syndrome for Sony.

 

20 minutes ago, Sketch said:

Especially annoying since I just dropped £100 panic buying stuff on PSN.

:sherlock:

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41 minutes ago, Sketch said:

 

I've had mine since 2007. A big old phat model. Still working. I play it daily. But this has now scared me. I thought someone was going to say they last 25 years or more. Jesus.

 

I AM LIVING ON BORROWED TIME.

 

Especially annoying since I just dropped £100 panic buying stuff on PSN.

 

Just yesterday I was going through the extremely excellent Game of Thrones RPG. Suppose I better hurry and finish the bastard before the system dies. :unsure:

 

I have over 100 digital games on it, and if the battery only lasts 10 years, they're basically all dead now.

 

How easy is it to even replace a CMOS battery? I once replaced a CDI battery, and it required either desoldering a the timex chip, or I did the easy route of cutting the fucker out, tumour style, then soldering a new battery frame in its place (the CDI had the absolute worst set-up for time-keeping batteries - it was actually cemented in place, isolated entirely inside a block of plastic).

 

The X360 doesn't even have a time-keeping function. If you unplug the system, like I do every time I don't play it, the clock resets to 2005. And everything still works fine. It's kinda funny, because all of my save files claim to be from the same day, Groundhog's Day style. :lol:

 

Has anyone here tried replacing the PS3 CMOS? Should we all be doing this right now and then resetting the system online? I keep hearing people say "oh well they'll just keep the servers running forever" - to which I reply, say that to poor bastards who bought Vita dev kits just before they shut the store.

 

Sometimes I feel like a lot of people on this forum have some sort of Stockholm syndrome for Sony.

 

 

 

 

 

I've run into a more troublesome issue recently though.

Sold a Vita to someone, who intended to hack it ( 1000 series ), to get the files on it for hacking, you need to open up the Content Manager App, this requires you to sign in with a PSN account, so yeah, what happens when the servers go down?

You can't access stuff on your computer to transfer over to the Vita, even legally purchased digital items, because the DRM forces you to sign in with a PSN ID, and without that ID, nothing is going on your Vita, ever!

No servers, no games, no hacking it to get around the lack of games availability, it's just fucked!

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Having very recently gone through the Vita process, I can happily confirm that there's no need to use CM to hack it (at least from sub-latest firmware; I don't think the newest firmware needs CM either, but not having gone through it can't confirm either way). So that at least shouldn't be a problem.

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37 minutes ago, MikeBeaver said:

 

 

 

 

I've run into a more troublesome issue recently though.

Sold a Vita to someone, who intended to hack it ( 1000 series ), to get the files on it for hacking, you need to open up the Content Manager App, this requires you to sign in with a PSN account, so yeah, what happens when the servers go down?

You can't access stuff on your computer to transfer over to the Vita, even legally purchased digital items, because the DRM forces you to sign in with a PSN ID, and without that ID, nothing is going on your Vita, ever!

No servers, no games, no hacking it to get around the lack of games availability, it's just fucked!


That’s only necessary if it’s above firmware 3.60 I think? The exploit on the Good Firmware is done entirely through the browser.

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58 minutes ago, Alex W. said:


That’s only necessary if it’s above firmware 3.60 I think? The exploit on the Good Firmware is done entirely through the browser.

Well, yeah, that's true.. but fw 3.60 is pretty old, and to downgrade, you need to be able to sign in.

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2 hours ago, Alex W. said:

We should start a PR campaign to get every Vita downgraded. Every time a Vita passes through your hands, if it’s not on 3.6, get it on 3.6.


Is there a guide somewhere?

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22 hours ago, hmm said:

I'm genuinely curious as to what duration of service and support people believe they're entitled to when they purchase a product. "This thing I bought so long ago that it's now of legal voting age might stop working at some indeterminate future date and I'm outraged."

 

In general, I believe that companies are treated far too laxly and far too many anti-consumer tactics are permitted - e.g. Sony's appalling customer service stance in the past - but, seriously, for how many decades should they be expected to maintain a product for a one-off payment exactly?

 

I'd like to be able to play physical disks on my hardware for as long as the hardware works. Seems too much to ask of a Sony console.  Especially if you listen to the usual suspects in this thread.  sheesh

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