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You may NOT pirate Psp, Vita and PS3


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Yes, nail on the head as ever Who. In this day and age, they have made games so convenient to get, and sales have become so efficient at extracting whatever amount any conceivable customer would spend regardless of their budget, a good argument could be made that it’s a solved problem. Or one that can be addressed further by refining the offering.

 

And in that context, people who want to play PS3, Vita and PSP games after the store goes down will either not be playing them or not be paying for them. That’s just the ground truth.

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Just to be clear about this, because I wasn’t maybe explicit back at the start of the thread: what bothers me is people’s obsession with moralising the issue. “It’s okay to...”? That’s what people want to argue about again? That’s a whole moral and ethical question which is subjective, unhelpful to the pragmatic question, and usually built solely on emotive arguments about whatever you think the bad guy is (lazy pirates! corporate fat cats!) and how much they’ve wronged you.

 

Which leads me to Sketch’s plan which is to my eyes more about punishing (the wrong) people in the moral sense than creating a set of incentives that encourage preservation, which is why I picked on it as an example of how little I enjoy watching people moralising about a fundamentally pragmatic issue.

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To me, services like Spotify and iTunes killed off music piracy.  But there's an issue there.  When I was carbooting in 2019 I was looking through people's DVD collections and I heard people saying it's good to get rid of these things because it's all on Netflix these days. People binning their CD collections because who needs CDs now we have Spotify. There's a clear misunderstanding here because yes, every CD I ever owned (in a box in the loft) happens to be on Spotify... Now.  But who is to say it will be there tomorrow? Perhaps Spotify will get rid of their free service. Perhaps they will put up their prices to £200 a week? Perhaps they will have a falling out with Warner Music and Warner will set up their own competing service? You're already seeing this if you threw away your Fawlty Towers DVDs because it's on Netflix. We didn't know Britbox would come along and Netflix would lose their access to these shows one by one as they came up for renewal.  It breaks my heart that my kids who don't exist, don't have a collection other than something that's stored on their phones.  

 

Because history is wiped out.  When that song you like gets a remix or remaster and you prefer the original, but the streaming service replaces the original and that's it, you'll never hear the version you like again.

 

So that's why I think that if there's a single outlet for a product and that outlet closes down, piracy becomes acceptable.  It's not a justification, "great we can finally find an excuse to pirate this now", it's a genuine reaction to something that didn't exist 10 years ago ; a tangible product that only existed in digital form, built for a system that is designed to only allow downloads from one shop, it all becomes useless when the shop closes.  If my PSP Go memory card corrupts, my console is LANDFILL unless I pirate all the games back onto a new memory card.

 

So to me Xbox are the only company doing it the right way. They specifically allow you to build up your Xbox software collection transferring it from One console to another.  They have Game pass which is your Spotify equivalent. And I think that being able to to transfer your collection from One console to the next is great. It reminds me that Sony do not necessarily offer this, and if I buy a PlayStation 5 I may find they closed down the store in 10-years. It makes PlayStation feel like a transient format, something you're renting rather than owning.

 

 

 

 

 

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To be honest that is exactly how I have approached these stores. I have spent north of £15 on exactly two digital games, ever: Hades, which I subsequently also bought on cartridge, and Animal Crossing, which I felt was a pure GaaS title. The value for money just isn’t there otherwise. Any game I have bought at launch needs to have a physical release or cost less than 2 months of Netflix, otherwise I wait until it does hit that price.

 

Is that what the games industry was aiming for when it made the many little and big decisions that brought us to this point? Probably not.

 

This is the second time a major online games store has closed for business, and it’s a couple of orders of magnitude larger in scope than the Wii Shop. It deserves to be a critical moment in how we think about games distribution, and the balance of what is convenient (for the seller and the buyer) versus what we actually want long term.

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What’s more worrying is that the main unauthorised means of obtaining those games is still downloading them from the Sony’s servers over the web. You just spoof the licence afterwards. Unless there is someone out there making a deliberate effort to scrape that and has a backup plan for distribution, a lot of the content probably won’t even be available through unauthorised means if Sony closes those servers.

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48 minutes ago, Down by Law said:

 

Spoiler alert 

 

You won't be around forever either

 

:)

 

I've had my second jab. Nothing can stop me.  I am eternal.  Itchy.  Tasty.

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On 11/04/2021 at 11:26, dumpster said:

 It breaks my heart that my kids who don't exist, don't have a collection other than something that's stored on their phones.  

 

Because history is wiped out.  When that song you like gets a remix or remaster and you prefer the original, but the streaming service replaces the original and that's it, you'll never hear the version you like again.

 

 

Can't agree with this sentiment. We have more mainstream access to more niche media than at any point in history

 

Decade after decade, TV shows didn't get recorded and released. Unsuccessful albums didn't get second runs. We wind up defining 'history' as only the very most successful parts of it, which isn't history.

 

At least now, with the services you describe, niche music won't have to disappear by virtue of not being quite popular enough to justify reproduction. 

 

There are more remixes you've never been able to hear than ones you have. Which may still be case, but it's less so than ever.

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Although his thesis is probably wrong and I don’t think streaming services have ever replaced original songs with their remixes, he does have a specific point about remasters. Few services carry more than one mastering of an album, and if it was most recently remastered in the 2000s you’re going to get a muted, dynamic range compressed version. Services like iTunes Match seem to (understandably) match your CD rips of old masterings to whatever version they have in their catalogue, so you’re stuck with side loading files if you want to listen to the originals. The same applies to a lot of film and TV - the anniversary remaster of The Matrix now seems to be the canonical version, even for TV broadcasts, with its divisive 2000s and 2005 versions presumably locked away in physical media.

 

Fortunately, different releases and updates of games tend to be treated as discrete products, so you can get all three Mass Effect games or the Legendary version on Xbox Live. Although that is probably more by luck than judgement: Sony clearly gave no fucks about which specific releases of games went in the PS1 mini.

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There will definitely be instances where a popular remix of a song is the only version available on eg Spotify. That doesn't mean it's been replaced; more likely, the remix is on some compilation album and the original isn't.

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7 hours ago, schmojo said:

 

Can't agree with this sentiment. We have more mainstream access to more niche media than at any point in history

 

Decade after decade, TV shows didn't get recorded and released. Unsuccessful albums didn't get second runs. We wind up defining 'history' as only the very most successful parts of it, which isn't history.

 

At least now, with the services you describe, niche music won't have to disappear by virtue of not being quite popular enough to justify reproduction. 

 

There are more remixes you've never been able to hear than ones you have. Which may still be case, but it's less so than ever.

How many photos do you have of, say grandparent, great grandparents etc.  Who has a box of photos from the 1800s passed down carefully from generation to generation? Many of us do. The only way you'll lose those photos is in a house fire. 

 

Compare with how many digital photographs you have from your first ever digital camera. You know the one. That Sagem mobile phone you had. The Casio camera that output its files in the .CAM format.  They're all gone. 

 

All the original film negatives for the movie A Bug's Life. All digital, all lost in a hard drive crash. 

 

Or the news article, printed on the BBC website on a Monday but then updated on Tuesday and then again on Wednesday. 

 

Don't get me wrong. There are more photographs taken today than any other time in history. But digital media is still very transient. If you bought Dogma on DVD, hold on to it, and keep a DVD player as well. Due to an unusual licensing agreement involving Harvey Weinstein Dogma will never come to any streaming service so that DVD will be the only way to watch that movie in future.

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7 minutes ago, dumpster said:

How many photos do you have of, say grandparent, great grandparents etc.  Who has a box of photos from the 1800s passed down carefully from generation to generation? Many of us do. The only way you'll lose those photos is in a house fire. 

 

Think about how many digital photographs you have from your first ever digital camera. You know the one. That Sagem mobile phone you had. The Casio camera that output its files in the .CAM format.  They're all gone. 

 

All the original film negatives for the movie A Bug's Life. All digital, all lost in a hard drive crash. 

 

Or the news article, printed on the BBC website on a Monday but then updated on Tuesday and then again on Wednesday. 

 

Don't get me wrong. There are more photographs taken today than any other time in history. But digital media is still very transient. If you bought Dogma on DVD, hold on to it, and keep a DVD player as well. Due to an unusual licensing agreement involving Harvey Weinstein Dogma will never come to any streaming service so that DVD will be the only way to watch that movie in future.

 

There are obvious issues to be addressed with digital media, but we're talking about countless more elements of history and culture being recorded and available than ever before. The idea of history erasure has been more valid at literally every other point in history.

 

Because the majority of things didn't last long enough for us to even know about them. There are a number of relevant cases, like Dogma as you mention, but there are so many more songs, shows and films lost to time that would be preserved to pad out a Netflix library in the present day.

 

You're also acting like video and filmstock didn't get reused and destroyed on the regular in the past. And that photos can't also be torn, spilled on, blown away by the wind, degrade physically, or simply get lost.

 

 

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I don't buy the argument that we're more likely to lose stuff now. Dogma might not be available on streaming platforms *sarcastically mimes crying*, but it's easy to get hold of on DVD, or to download a pirate copy. Or even find a copy on VHS or UMD. There are so many more platforms now that the chances of something surviving seems a lot higher; obviously stuff will still be lost, but it seems significantly less likely now. If you lost something in the pre-digital era, then it was lost for good; if you stick the workprint of a film in a salt mine for storage and it floods, that's it, it's fucked. You can still lose footage now, but someone could have a copy on a random hard drive backup or the cloud; someone could have taken a hard drive image home to edit it, and forgotten about it. Someone could have a screener copy in a cupboard somewhere.

 

Pretty much all of the really significant lost films are from the early 20th century. As more platforms and formats arrived, the chances that films and TV and music (or whatever) would survive rose massively; with the rise of digital, it must be pretty difficult to truly lose a film or TV programme that was given any kind of proper release.

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In the movie Twister, Director Jan De Bont wanted to demonstrate what a strong and powerful woman Helen Hunt's character is in comparison to Bill Pullman's new wife that we meet early on in the film.  To make this obvious in the minds of the audience the first time we meet Helen Hunt she says "Fuck Me, this thing is useless!” as she grapples with some piece of equipment or other. This ran foul of the BBFC and their attitude to certification. Jan De Bont was told in no uncertain terms that if he wanted the film to be a PG he would cut that language out. Desperately wanting the movie to remain a PG but feeling that that swearing was so important to the character the language was left in but placed so low in the overall audio mix that you can't actually hear the f-word being said.  If you turn the subtitles on on the DVD you'll see that they display "...... Me, this thing is useless!". The film was released as a PG despite the apparent swearing which is there but also not there.  

 

Jumpcut to 2021 and Netflix has Twister. The rules have changed over the years and twister has been reclassified for streaming and retained it PG rating with both the f word and the subtitles back to how how the director intended. 

 

It's an interesting history lesson that shows how the BBFC is attitude to bad language has changed. But according to Netflix the movie twister contains the f word, is rated PG and was released in 1996.  It's only the fact that the DVD exists that proves the story is true. 

 

Likewise if you throw away all of your maps and rely on Google maps you'll probably have a better experience getting from A to B. But if you look at my old school you'll see that it's next door to some garages. The school is there and the garages are there are but they were never there at the same time. It's an anomaly which is caused by Google stitching together whatever photographs it has. The map is brilliantly useful but it's wrong. And in 10-years time if somebody queries that the school was never next to the garages the only evidence they may have will be the digital maps which prove they are wrong even though they are right. 

 

I know these aren't great examples but it's sums up how transient digital media is. I read an article that said the position of historian will be a job that no longer exist soon because everything is documented and stored. But I'm not sure how accurate that is.

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1 hour ago, dumpster said:

How many photos do you have of, say grandparent, great grandparents etc.  Who has a box of photos from the 1800s passed down carefully from generation to generation? Many of us do. The only way you'll lose those photos is in a house fire. 

 

Compare with how many digital photographs you have from your first ever digital camera. You know the one. That Sagem mobile phone you had. The Casio camera that output its files in the .CAM format.  They're all gone. 

 

I don't really buy this argument, there's loads of stuff that can happen to those physical photos - water damage, wear and tear, but once something is in a digital format it is infinitely copy-able, backup-able and convertible into any format that you want. Claiming that physical is somehow preservationist and digital isn't is exactly the opposite of the truth, and is obviously just about your personal preference (**gestures at literally every thread dumpster has ever made and their great big section on nostalgia**) rather than an argument that you can back up - that you're having to bring up legal issues and stick them in the "digital negative" category when they prevent a physical re-release too is evidence of that sort of bias. "Physical copies still exist" yeah so does Dogma.2008_Rip.wmv, but you didn't mention that.


I have every photo from when I had a digital camera in the early-2000s, I have every photo since I had a smartphone too, despite replacing phones, computers and cameras multiple times in that period, because everything is stored digitally. Recently I loaded up a game from 2003 that I'd never played before and brought up a launcher showing me how its system requirements compared against my PC, which was a rather spectacular demonstration of nearly eighteen years of technological progress and backwards compatibility. Obviously none of this exists without effort on behalf of platform holders, rights holders and preservationists, but then neither does physical.

 

We're literally in a thread where the opening post insists digital copies should be used to preserve stuff no longer available, I wonder who wrote that and how they ended up arguing the exact opposite of that stance.

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54 minutes ago, K said:

I don't buy the argument that we're more likely to lose stuff now. Dogma might not be available on streaming platforms *sarcastically mimes crying*, but it's easy to get hold of on DVD, or to download a pirate copy. Or even find a copy on VHS or UMD. There are so many more platforms now that the chances of something surviving seems a lot higher; obviously stuff will still be lost, but it seems significantly less likely now. If you lost something in the pre-digital era, then it was lost for good; if you stick the workprint of a film in a salt mine for storage and it floods, that's it, it's fucked. You can still lose footage now, but someone could have a copy on a random hard drive backup or the cloud; someone could have taken a hard drive image home to edit it, and forgotten about it. Someone could have a screener copy in a cupboard somewhere.

 

Pretty much all of the really significant lost films are from the early 20th century. As more platforms and formats arrived, the chances that films and TV and music (or whatever) would survive rose massively; with the rise of digital, it must be pretty difficult to truly lose a film or TV programme that was given any kind of proper release.

 

And how do the pirates get hold of it?

 

With an xbox one nearly impossible to pirate on, Forza Horizon Hot Wheels is now essentially lost.

 

If it were only available streaming, it would be entirely lost.

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17 hours ago, Dudley said:

With an xbox one nearly impossible to pirate on, Forza Horizon Hot Wheels is now essentially lost.

 

If it were only available streaming, it would be entirely lost.

 

You're conflating things not currently being available to buy due to licensing with them being lost, which is not the case at all. You own it, you can still download it.

 

That's literally the crux of Microsofts' backwards compatibility drive that extends back decades (and I'd note it's also how PC has always been, because it's their platform too and they put the effort in there first). Everything is supported and available in perpetuity, even if it's locked in some legal nightmare where you can't buy a new copy.

 

Really people's problem is just with Sony and Nintendo treating these consoles as disposable, and to be honest that's no different from how they've always been treated, it just looks a lot worse because the game has changed suddenly.

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Not really, no-one new can play it. Ever.  If you don't own it, there's no way to play it.  That to me is lost.

 

Whereas even with, oh I don't know, Unirally on SNES, a game that was available for about 14 seconds, you can find a physical copy, there are multiple ways to acquire and play a copy on real hardware, legally or otherwise.

 

There is NO legal or illegal way to play FH3 Hot Wheels for Xbox One if you didn't buy it before late last year.  Yes those of us with it can play it.

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  • dumpster changed the title to You may NOT pirate Psp, Vita and PS3

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