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You may NOT pirate Psp, Vita and PS3


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I'm sure Sony would argue that it's still harming their business model because if you're pirating old stuff and playing it for free, you're not buying the shiny new PS5 titles they want to sell you instead.

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5 minutes ago, Gotters said:

Tesco discontinue a product line  (it's their choice as the retailer) is it fine for me to walk into their storeroom if there is still some stock hanging around and nick it because I can no longer buy it thru the tills ?

 

No, but that's a different argument because you'd be stealing a stock item, depriving someone else of it.

 

Legally, copyright infringement is not theft because you're making a copy. Theft is depriving someone of their property by taking it from them. 

 

It's not about justifying piracy, more the fact that this has never happened before. The only venue to purchase a digital only product is gone, therefore the item itself can be proven to have no commercial value, because it basically no longer exists.

 

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5 minutes ago, dumpster said:

No, but that's a different argument because you'd be stealing a stock item, depriving someone else of it.

 

Legally, copyright infringement is not theft because you're making a copy. Theft is depriving someone of their property by taking it from them. 

 

It's not about justifying piracy, more the fact that this has never happened before. The only venue to purchase a digital only product is gone, therefore the item itself can be proven to have no commercial value, because it basically no longer exists.

 

 

yeah but come on, Tesco are only going to bin it, its a victimless crime, only a bit of light theft to justify getting something you want that you can no longer buy thru the tills.

 

I just don't see the difference, the platform holder no longer wish to offer a service or product, tough luck. I agree that ways exist to still get hold of the thing for free but it doesn't legally or morally justify it, sure you can do it but I don't see it as any different to any other form of digital piracy.

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33 minutes ago, dumpster said:

The digital world is still relatively new and this situation has never happened before to my knowledge.

 

It has, just not at this scale. The original Xbox Live Arcade store can't be accessed from original Xboxes, for example, while the Ouya shut its store down in 2019.

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For someone so critical of fevered hype culture drowning out considered debate, Jim does like his sensationalist video titles. ;) 
 

I think that if I do something like download and emulate a game that I enjoy enough, then I’ll want to purchase it to support the publisher and developer - this falls apart with things like preowned sales, but digital re-releases still exist. I remember someone criticising me for emulating Metal Slug X instead of paying hundreds for a Neo Geo cart (even though SNK wouldn’t see a penny from an eBay sale) but I still bought the series anthology when it was available. So I’m kind of with @Fry Crayola in that games can be re-released and the re-releases should be supported.

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Ultimately this is just another argument for piracy that boils down to user convenience, “they’ll do it because they want to get the content and piracy easier than the alternative”. Which is a pragmatic view on the topic I wish rightsholders would adopt more often, but not one with any particular moral or legal weight.

 

And that is before we get in to specifics. Not one of the PSone Classics could justifiably be said to be unavailable after this, as they were all physical media releases. Most (all?) PSP releases except PSP Minis were released on UMD. Of the 120 titles I’ve seen tallied up as potentially lost - mostly PS Vita content - many are enhanced versions of existing titles, which have been succeeded by other advanced versions that are still available.

 

There is an archiving issue here that bears discussion but as usual people looking to moralise about their refusal to pay for games have louder voices.

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3 minutes ago, Alex W. said:

Ultimately this is just another argument for piracy that boils down to user convenience, “they’ll do it because they want to get the content and piracy easier than the alternative”. Which is a pragmatic view on the topic I wish rightsholders would adopt more often, but not one with any particular moral or legal weight.

 

And that is before we get in to specifics. Not one of the PSone Classics could justifiably be said to be unavailable after this, as they were all physical media releases. Most (all?) PSP releases except PSP Minis were released on UMD. Of the 120 titles I’ve seen tallied up as potentially lost - mostly PS Vita content - many are enhanced versions of existing titles, which have been succeeded by other advanced versions that are still available.

 

There is an archiving issue here that bears discussion but as usual people looking to moralise about their refusal to pay for games have louder voices.

Fair points there. But to be clear, Jim is talking about the stuff that was only ever released digitally and only sold via Sony.  I get the argument for games that are not being lost (either because they are available on other formats or whatever) but the store closure creates a list of games that are no longer commercially available in any way, shape or form and until it's re-released somewhere you could surely argue that it has no commercial value.

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5 minutes ago, dumpster said:

Fair points there. But to be clear, Jim is talking about the stuff that was only ever released digitally and only sold via Sony.  I get the argument for games that are not being lost (either because they are available on other formats or whatever) but the store closure creates a list of games that are no longer commercially available in any way, shape or form and until it's re-released somewhere you could surely argue that it has no commercial value.


That’s an absurdly narrow framing of the problem though. A lost transaction is not the be-all and end-all of the consequences of deciding to pirate that game. If it was, then arguably most piracy would be victimless already as the pirates were never going to spend money on the games in question anyway.

 

It’s a persuasively pragmatic viewpoint in assessing how to address piracy from the content producer’s perspective, but it’s conversation-endingly, tediously reductive if you want to discuss the larger dimensions of the problem.

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56 minutes ago, Garwoofoo said:

I'm sure Sony would argue that it's still harming their business model because if you're pirating old stuff and playing it for free, you're not buying the shiny new PS5 titles they want to sell you instead.

 

Which is still a shit counter on their part as the console to play these 'amazing games' is like unicorn poo.

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If games are only playable available via piracy then I'd have no problem pirating them. I think I already own anything worthwhile though. It's a shame Sony don't care about their history, more people should be able to enjoy Tokyo Jungle.

 

Piracy is such an emotive subject though but almost everyone has an age or moral threshold where they decide it's ok. If those against piracy has never had a folder of NES roms on their PC, then they're liars.

 

I think Xbox is the only place I feel comfortable buying digitally as they at least seem to be putting an effort in to have one giant library. 

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To throw out a deliberately absurd point, people pirating TxK means that I can’t sell my OLED Vita with the game preinstalled for £500,000 to some extremely wealthy Jeff Minter fanatic. Won’t somebody think of my retirement plan?

 

Edit - Some more meaningful ones:

 

Does retro piracy devalue retro collectors’ collections?

Does it reduce the attendance, and therefore viability, of the few video game museums we have?

Does it reduce the motivation for platform holders to maintain their back catalogues?

Or for publishers to re-release software on extant formats?

Does it increase visibility of games that might otherwise be lost on obscure formats?

 

Reducing all of this to “well piracy is like a shop that is always there and costs nothing” is, ugh. Not everything in videogames has to be about consumerism.

 

(I should add that basically the main viable route to pirate PSP and Vita content just now is entirely dependent upon Sony’s own PSN servers. The convenience this offers means no meaningful alternative has been developed, so when Sony pulls the plug on redownloading in the far future who knows what will happen. Convenience is not a good metric!)

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1 hour ago, dumpster said:

It's not about justifying piracy, more the fact that this has never happened before.

 

Apart from when the Wii and DSi shops, the original Xbox store, and Desura all shut down. 

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Xbox Live Indie Games too.

 

I think once these stores are gone, I won't feel too bad about downloading the odd Vita game and I wouldn't judge others for doing so, but I won't be pretending it's the right thing to do. Also I'll still buy them where they're available. 

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2 hours ago, dumpster said:

Fair points there. But to be clear, Jim is talking about the stuff that was only ever released digitally and only sold via Sony.  I get the argument for games that are not being lost (either because they are available on other formats or whatever) but the store closure creates a list of games that are no longer commercially available in any way, shape or form and until it's re-released somewhere you could surely argue that it has no commercial value.

 

If you download and play through them now, would you be interested in buying them in another form next year? Probably not.

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I think the issue for me here is that we don't know if the devs/publishers of these games have any plans to make them available elsewhere once the store goes. I think in the meantime it's fair game to pirate something you really want to play that you simply cannot currently legitimately buy and play, but if you go to the effort of pirating something which then gets announced as being re-released, you should sure has hell support the effort of the re-release and buy it. Otherwise you're no better than the "Well Epic already paid for my copy!" gang that tries justifying pirating Epic Store exclusive releases.

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3 hours ago, Gotters said:

 

yeah but come on, Tesco are only going to bin it, its a victimless crime, only a bit of light theft to justify getting something you want that you can no longer buy thru the tills.

 

I just don't see the difference, the platform holder no longer wish to offer a service or product, tough luck. I agree that ways exist to still get hold of the thing for free but it doesn't legally or morally justify it, sure you can do it but I don't see it as any different to any other form of digital piracy.

If it's going in the bin then just wait by the bins. 

 

I mean, joking aside, and also aside from the fundamental differences between copyright infringement and physical theft, then there is a good moral and environmental argument for taking and using physical stock that is destined for waste.

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2 hours ago, Camel said:

Xbox Live Indie Games too.

 

I think once these stores are gone, I won't feel too bad about downloading the odd Vita game and I wouldn't judge others for doing so, but I won't be pretending it's the right thing to do. Also I'll still buy them where they're available. 

 

What about if you'd bought it previously? Because that's where it hits a grey area for me. Poor timing on Sony's behalf, if Microsoft are savvy they'd take the piss out of them.

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I don't think piracy is even illegal here and morally I can't be bothered to pretend to care, so that saves me the mental gymnastics some of you are going through. The only thing that stops me downloading everything ever made is that it's a pain in the arse. if there was a big 'DOWNLOAD PSN' button somewhere I'd be smashing that fucker in a heartbeat.

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54 minutes ago, K said:

The core argument here is ridiculous. The PS3 store hasn't even shut down yet. When it shuts down in July, it doesn't suddenly become morally or legally OK to pirate the games that are no longer available - if you want to play them so much, then you've got three months in which to buy them. If the games hadn't been available for years and showed no sign of ever being made available again then there would be a stronger argument for pirating them, but it seems odd and self-serving to argue that it becomes open season to copy games as soon as they disappear from a digital shop.

So you've never downloaded a rom? 

 

I don't think it's so much people downloading the games a month after the store shuts down but say in ten years time someone wants to play the portable version of Outrun 2006, a game that's not even available legally on any platform anyway. There's no way to play that game. In your mind it's gone forever and tough luck to anyone who didn't get to play it. 

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55 minutes ago, K said:

The core argument here is ridiculous. The PS3 store hasn't even shut down yet. When it shuts down in July, it doesn't suddenly become morally or legally OK to pirate the games that are no longer available - if you want to play them so much, then you've got three months in which to buy them. If the games hadn't been available for years and showed no sign of ever being made available again then there would be a stronger argument for pirating them, but it seems odd and self-serving to argue that it becomes open season to copy games as soon as they disappear from a digital shop.

 

Pirating is never going to be the right thing to do but 'buying everything you want in the next three months' isn't a plan that will work for everyone.

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27 minutes ago, SweatyTravolta said:

So you've never downloaded a rom? 

 

This is a nonsense argument, because I don't think anyone's claiming they're paragons of virtue. You don't have to be innocent to believe an action is wrong, and it's not some logical gotcha to point it out - the piracy equivalent of "and yet you participate in society!".

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It's easy to think, 'fuck Sony then, we'll pirate these games if we can't get them', but it's a real shame that you'll no longer be able to reward publishers who bring obscure imports to these services or indie developers if the games don't end up anywhere else. 

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  • dumpster changed the title to You may NOT pirate Psp, Vita and PS3

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