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Confirmed: Sony NOT Shutting Down Vita and PS3 Stores. Yet.


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Yeah, we don't yet know any details.

 

But the central point really is a Digital purchase is no less transitory than a digital one really and that's been true since 2013 for the big 2 console makers.

 

There are other advantages to physical of course (and some for digital) but being able to play those games in 25 years isn't one.

 

4 hours ago, Keyboard Koala said:

 

True, so you just make sure every game in your collection is updated and patched before they shut down support I assume. Not an easy feat if you have some 100+ games.

 

Yep, although of course this only works so long as you can fit every game you own onto your console's hard-drive, only works until said drive fails and prevents you ever getting hold of a new game for the system.

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4 hours ago, deKay said:

 

Because we don't know it does.

 

Shutting down the store is not the same as shutting down the authentication/licence/update/patch servers.

 

That's true, but this means you cannot, as it stands, reset a PS4 (new CMOS battery) and then play your discs, without an internet connection. To me, this is utter bollocks. I am sure it'll be hacked and all that kind of thing, but I can just see issues with this in 10 years' time.

 

I have a few "retro" systems that I enjoy playing, and thank god none of them require server authentication or indeed any internet connection at all to simply play a disc or cartridge inserted.

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10 minutes ago, Spoonman said:

 

That's true, but this means you cannot, as it stands, reset a PS4 (new CMOS battery) and then play your discs, without an internet connection. To me, this is utter bollocks. I am sure it'll be hacked and all that kind of thing, but I can just see issues with this in 10 years' time.

 

Effin hell, didn't know that :(

 

Is this also true for the PS3 then?

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18 minutes ago, Spoonman said:

 

That's true, but this means you cannot, as it stands, reset a PS4 (new CMOS battery) and then play your discs, without an internet connection. To me, this is utter bollocks. I am sure it'll be hacked and all that kind of thing, but I can just see issues with this in 10 years' time.

 

I have a few "retro" systems that I enjoy playing, and thank god none of them require server authentication or indeed any internet connection at all to simply play a disc or cartridge inserted.


You only need the connection once to reauthorise them though, no?

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21 minutes ago, Spoonman said:

 

That's true, but this means you cannot, as it stands, reset a PS4 (new CMOS battery) and then play your discs, without an internet connection. To me, this is utter bollocks. I am sure it'll be hacked and all that kind of thing, but I can just see issues with this in 10 years' time.

 

I have a few "retro" systems that I enjoy playing, and thank god none of them require server authentication or indeed any internet connection at all to simply play a disc or cartridge inserted.

 

Agreed. Technology is such a movable feast that, even if Sony agree to keep the check-in servers online in perpetuity (they won't), changes to other intermediary technologies will inevitably threaten the whole jenga tower.  Take wifi - the 360 doesn't know about 5Ghz wireless network and can't connect to them.  Forget 25 years time, stuff like that is happening all the time - if a system can't work under its own strength and say-so it becomes a minefield.

 

Assuming this is all right and correct, Sony should at least consider releasing a final 'sunset' patch for the PS4, removing this requirement once the system is no longer a money-spinner. 

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The CMOS stuff seems blown out of all proportion. I don't begrudge people flagging it as a potential preservation issue, but if it's a ticking time bomb it's of an extraordinarily low yield: put a new battery in, plug in an ethernet cable once. As far as I can tell it isn't even necessarily using a Sony server for timekeeping, so even if PSN totally shut down and the company dissolved it might not matter.

 

I mean, you can't even set up a Series console without an internet connection. Not that I think it's a big deal, but that's the current reality yet I don't think I've even seen anyone mention it.

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22 minutes ago, Popo said:

 

Agreed. Technology is such a movable feast that, even if Sony agree to keep the check-in servers online in perpetuity (they won't), changes to other intermediary technologies will inevitably threaten the whole jenga tower.  Take wifi - the 360 doesn't know about 5Ghz wireless network and can't connect to them.  Forget 25 years time, stuff like that is happening all the time - if a system can't work under its own strength and say-so it becomes a minefield. 

 

Same with the PSP. It only supports WPA protocol and not the more recent WPA2.

Just goes to show how frustrating this all is: I can only use one PSP as my main PSP console, whereas I can use as many PSP Street models as I want, since those didn't have online functionality.

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3 hours ago, Ferine said:

I mean, you can't even set up a Series console without an internet connection. Not that I think it's a big deal, but that's the current reality yet I don't think I've even seen anyone mention it.

 

It is actually a problem, though. It usually isn't, but you literally need an internet connection to set things up, and I see that as a negative. It's only going to "get worse". I'm just saying I don't like the whole thing, there's no outrage to speak of. 

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This has prompted me to dig out my Good PS3, get a big drive for it, my Vita, a big SD card and adaptor for THAT, and just download everything I give half a crap about for future potential use. A bit silly, but I don’t want to miss out on this vast trove of shit I’ll never actually play.

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All this nonsense has made me realise something a bit sad about my attitude to gaming; I treat it in a very disposable way. I very rarely go back to old games, even old games I absolutely adore. I can't count the amount of games I've bought from my childhood and then never played them, or put the most perfunctory of efforts in to play them. The SNES and Megadrive minis have had all of an hours use each, everything Xbox 360 and earlier that I still own is in the loft, most likely never to be touched again. Plus, and this is absolutely down to me being an awful human being, I don't much care. If my shit disappears from my account chances are I'll not miss it because by that point I'll be neck deep in whatever generation we're on. 

'course this isn't to say I don't find it abhorrent. The lack of preservation of these things is alarming and I get why so many people are scrabbling to back up all their shit, I just can't be arsed to soft mod my consoles, buy SD cards and the devices needed to do so and generally get riled up about it. It's just one of those things, all part of modern gaming. Utter bullshit, obviously, but here we are.

 

Jim Ryan can still fucking do one, though. Cunt.

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This topic disappoints me.

 

The PS3 shop is closing. This thread title is about the PS3 shop closing. So I came to the PS3 thread to discuss PS3 games to buy for my PS3 before the PS3 stops selling PS3 games.

 

What do I find?

 

Some sort of discussions about Moses' bat trees for the PS5 destroying your discs. Or I dunno. I didn't even bother reading those posts properly.

 

I'm going to start a new thread.

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Honestly the huge amount of Vita games I got on PSPlus was the main reason I kept renewing, they did a good job of holding me to ransom. I wonder if the downloaded versions of those will still require the occasional network validation or even if that will work?

And my god the vita store has to be the absolute worst online storefront of all time.

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When you download a PS+ game it gets an expiry date which is the day your PS+ subscription expires. If that date has passed, it checks online to see if your subscription was renewed and either updates the expiry date or refuses to load.

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But that at least was a flubbed effort to provide something people would want. People had to decide that the Vita would list PS3 titles, go off and code that up, code up the ability for it to detect that they’re PS3 games and say that you can’t download those games to the Vita, localise that text, and then test it every time the code is updated, all for a feature that has no reason to exist in the first place.

 

It’s not like it couldn’t have just hidden those games. If you have PS1 or PSP games purchased that aren’t playable on the Vita they simply don’t appear.

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12 minutes ago, Jg15 said:

Although the lack of clarification from Sony is maddening, just come out with it already!

They'll be like the government leaking the information out and then seeing how much people flip their shit before deciding. 

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Considering the relatively meagre amount of bandwidth and storage the legacy CDN occupies, compared to a lot of people smashing hundreds of gigabytes via PS4 and PS5's Free to Play Call of Duty nonsense, I'd be surprised if they did shut it down along with the storefront - but stranger things have happened, so maybe it's not all that surprising this rumour exists. For a long time, Sony have even been negligent enough to let people access the CDN without a console, so outside of shoring up any PSN vulnerabilities it's strange to close up shop when it still offers legitimate owners means to give them money.

Also, Jim Ryan's a silly goose for considering why people want to play Gran Turismo 1 to 4. Whenever a get a pang for some GT, the first thing I do is rummage for my ripped copies of GT2 or 4 and stick them on their respective emulators before I even consider buying GT Sport - It's more convenient to me than setting up the PS4, they still look fine with a bit of upscaling and the career modes are still fun by themselves. And it's also discounting entire generations and hundreds of good videogames and he should stop being daft, obv.

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3 minutes ago, Siri said:

Considering the relatively meagre amount of bandwidth and storage the legacy CDN occupies, compared to a lot of people smashing hundreds of gigabytes via PS4 and PS5's Free to Play Call of Duty nonsense, I'd be surprised if they did shut it down along with the storefront

It won't be the running costs, it'll be the maintenance costs. They've currently got (AFAIK) a single system that needs to operate correctly across a whole swathe of old hardware, and having to keep compatibility back to those old consoles isn't trivial, in term of hours spent keeping the old hardware compatible with service updates, and the complications supporting that old hardware adds on how you engineer the service going forward.

 

Whether it's a cost you think Sony should pay is another matter, but it's not simply, "they need to pay the electricity bill on the servers and the bandwidth costs".

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That's fair. I did forget that PS3/PSVita involved going through the storefront in order to access the list of games that you're entitled to download (instead of it being something accessible through a library menu like PS4), so that would have to be maintained to an extent even if the games/updates/patches are static for decades. I can agree that there would also be a knock-on effect as PSN authentication is tied to both the PS3/PSV/PS Mobile Store and the newer PS4/PS5 Store - If they changed anything with the login, they'd have to release a new firmware to support that backend change.

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12 minutes ago, Siri said:

That's fair. I did forget that PS3/PSVita involved going through the storefront in order to access the list of games that you're entitled to download (instead of it being something accessible through a library menu like PS4), so that would have to be maintained to an extent even if the games/updates/patches are static for decades. I can agree that there would also be a knock-on effect as PSN authentication is tied to both the PS3/PSV/PS Mobile Store and the newer PS4/PS5 Store - If they changed anything with the login, they'd have to release a new firmware to support that backend change.

Yeah, I think the pre-PS4 service setup probably just isn't fit for purpose any more and they want to migrate to something completely rebuilt, which means cutting lose the 15 year old PS3-store based service.

 

I'm hoping when the old Store is shut down, they try to make historic downloads easier to keep alive, by removing phone-home requirements where possible, etc. But I'm not sure.

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I don't know if this is still the case but when BT launched their TV service you could buy films. If you cancelled the service they would ask for the set top box back, at which point (if you asked) they would send you the film's you owned on a dvd, free of charge.

 

Because you bought it, you own it.

 

Over the years I've traded stuff in at Game and CEX and later regretted it.  As a result I became a bit of a hoarder and I have individual boxes in the garage for each format.  I have a large box containing 2 chipped PSOne consoles, A standard PlayStation (chipped), and all the games I loved from the era.  There's an Atari box, a Dreamcast box, PS2, PS3 and so on. These are all things that I bought, I own. If I look after them well, they will last forever.

 

But I'm realising that these old consoles fail. The capacitors leak. The rubber sticks on the controller get sticky.  The WiFi won't connect to my new router. My Xbox 360 is carefully stored and preserved with a VGA cable and my new TV doesn't have VGA on it.

 

Now we add to that list all the new issues that we never had to worry about before.  We have online stores that close down, servers that get switched off etc.  I'm still annoyed that they switched off Driveclub servers when I was still playing it, and never patched it to remove the "can't connect to server" messages that spoil the single player experience too. If you play Driveclub today it feels broke , because they broke it.

 

For me I think emulation and custom firmwares are the answer. In 20 years time the last Xbox 360 will have red ringed, capacitors will have leaked, hard drives will have failed and all this stuff in the garage will be basically unusable. But while they last, custom firmware will allow me to download every Vita game ever made and that will allow me to keep my own personal device for as long as it doesn't break. But ultimately it will, and that's why emulation is so vital for preservation.

 

Today we have to accept that when you buy a PS5 you're buying a device that Sony will intend to have a 7 year lifespan and games for it are only really guaranteed to work properly as long as Sony maintains the servers. Gaming is transient now. They don't care about the history , they just want you to keep buying the new stuff.  

 

But the emulator community has other plans. For me, Dolphin gives you a 100% complete preservation of GameCube and Wii. Redream is close to doing the same for Dreamcast. Everything that came before has been preserved in complete romsets.  Even Pinball has been preserved, and in 50 years time surely anyone that wants to learn what video gaming was all about in the 80s will be doing so via emulators instead of real hardware. As long as the PC is a thing it should be possible for these emulators to be patched as needed to remain compatible with future windows revisions.

 

On PS4 and Xbox One (and beyond) It would seem a mountainous task to create a 100% complete romset of all the games (with their latest patches) and an emulator that plays them all perfectly.  But with licensing issues creating legal barriers and how Sony could choose to turn off some or all of the PSN network, I'd have more faith in the emulator community working to preserve this stuff than Sony. I reckon that the ultimate goal for anyone working on a PS4 emulator today would be to also create a PSN emulator that it can connect to. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Yeah, the Xbox 360 Slim is a tank. A small efficient SOC stuck to a chunky heat sink with an enormous fan directly on top of it, right next to air vents on two sides of the console.
CA4E50CE-750C-49CB-9CA0-85F064F99D6C.thumb.jpeg.e62a078f953b1a90ddb2118daa21a61d.jpeg

 

For comparison, the thing on the left below is the original Xbox 360’s GPU heat sink. If it looks like they carved out a big rectangular space that could have been used for cooling, that’s because they stuffed the DVD drive in on top of it.

 

DB86FB68-343F-4AD9-A023-5D2A678724B0.jpeg.5494aad087aeebd51d613b23ac5b284c.jpeg

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  • moosegrinder changed the title to Confirmed: Sony NOT Shutting Down Vita and PS3 Stores. Yet.

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