Splatoon 3 - it's here!

[MW_Jimmy]

22 hours ago, Keyboard Koala said:

Does anyone know why the squids are launched from espresso machines at the start of a battle?

 

Because as climate breakdown continues, by 2050 coffee growing regions in the world are likely to reduce by 50%, and within our lifetimes might be considered a rare luxury. To our cephalopods friends it seems these archaic devices will be repurposed to be more useful.

[Strafe]

The game runs on P2P, so did the last one. I didn’t know this until now. No idea why they wouldn’t run one of their most popular games with dedicated servers, especially when there’s a modest esports scene along with it.

[SuperFamiTom]

Please understand. 

[dataDave]

9 hours ago, Strafe said:

The game runs on P2P, so did the last one. I didn’t know this until now. No idea why they wouldn’t run one of their most popular games with dedicated servers, especially when there’s a modest esports scene along with it.

 

It also suffers from a deplorable tick rate (how often the comms are updated per second) of 16Hz. If they had dedicated servers they could probably run it at 60Hz like a lot of other reputable console FPS. For some reason, which some expect to be a method of maintaining P2P connections easier with less drop-out, Splatoon 2 has an even lower tick than Splatoon 1.

 

 

That doesn't work though, because the connection (especially wireless) is just as shit in Splatoon 2 as it ever was!

 

 

This is one of the many reasons why I don't like paying for Nintendo Online. We're essentially paying for nothing. I'd much rather pay €10 a month or so for a premium service.

[smac]

<Looks at 1000s of hours playing Splatoon 2>

 

If you say so, guys. I had enough fun, anyway.

[BitterToad]

One day I will be buried in the dirt. I hope that day isn't for a very very long time and that when it happens I still don't know what a "tick rate" is. 

 

Splatoon's great. 

[dataDave]

How many minutes in those thousands of hours were spent waiting for P2P lobbies to fill?

 

Besides, Splatoon 2 being fun is exactly how Nintendo get away with charging money for bottom-of-the barrel infrastructure and netcode. Splatoon 1 handled this much better back when playing online was free. Surely things should get better after you start paying for them, no? Not worse..

 

Console games from twenty years ago did online better than this. This absolutely warrants any and all scrutiny.

[Rsdio]

As much as I might roll my eyes a bit at how these things are sometimes framed, enjoying the game and wishing the online experience was better aren't mutually exclusive positions.

 

If Nintendo put a bit of actual effort into the online stuff people are paying for there would be absolutely no downside to anyone but they're very unlikely to unless people moan a bit. Japanese fighting game developers would still be putting horrendous delay-based netcode in everything if everyone hadn't started kicking off about it in the past few years.

[Strafe]

12 minutes ago, BitterToad said:

One day I will be buried in the dirt. I hope that day isn't for a very very long time and that when it happens I still don't know what a "tick rate" is. 

 

Splatoon's great. 

I mean, @dataDave explained what it is with just 8 words 2 posts above yours.

 

 

[smac]

No, I get it - if nobody cared enough to kick up a fuss, it wouldn't get better.

 

But I'll be honest and say I didn't notice - and it may be why I had fewer problems playing S2 on my abysmal network speeds. People like me might be why the tick rate is so low...

[Rsdio]

To be honest I'd never thought about it with Splatoon either but I think that's only because I assumed the vast majority are on wi-fi and just blamed any weirdness on that without looking into it any further.

 

Considering how hard they've worked to make Smash non-competitive over the years I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if they think having optimal online is somehow 'un-Nintendo' and therefore undesirable.

[dataDave]

30 minutes ago, smac said:

But I'll be honest and say I didn't notice - and it may be why I had fewer problems playing S2 on my abysmal network speeds. People like me might be why the tick rate is so low...

 

It's not your connection. Mostly everyone's internet is easily capable of relaying information for competitive gaming these days. It's not about the speed or how much you pay per month, it's about the quality of the connection (the ping). The main issue here is the fact that 8 clients are all trying to keep each other up to date at the same time with an incredibly busy game (all that paint!), using a very low transfer rate for the benefit of connection stability. This wouldn't be the case with regional dedicated servers, even just virtual servers, which would cost Nintendo absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things.

 

Surely you will have experienced being sniped behind walls after you run/swim behind cover, swam away from an area-of-effect burst and gotten splatted anyway, experienced more than several questionable bullet trades/Double KOs, etc.?. Something from 1999-era internet happens to me nearly every match. It's not enough to put me off of buying and enjoying the game (unlike Smash where it absolutely does), but it's shit - and makes Nintendo's offering objectively the worst online experience.

[smac]

19 minutes ago, dataDave said:

Surely you will have experienced being sniped behind walls after you run/swim behind cover, swam away from an area-of-effect burst and gotten splatted anyway, experienced more than several questionable bullet trades, etc.?

 

Yup - I guess that's the comment about 'it's not lag, it's tick rate'? Such events would be rarer with a higher tick rate.

 

I'm on 2MBit/s down, 600K up; Splatoon is about the only online game I've played much.

[Kevvy Metal]

Does anyone know what the tick-rate is like on this?

[moosegrinder]

Being shot round corners is always annoying but it doesn't bother me nearly as much in Splatoon as it does in say CoD because the game made I play doesn't depend on k/d. Being knocked out prevents coverage but coordinated team play can beat shit connections.

 

[rgraves]

14 minutes ago, Kevvy Metal said:

Does anyone know what the tick-rate is like on this?

 

On PAL or NTSC?

[BitterToad]

52 minutes ago, Strafe said:

I mean, @dataDave explained what it is with just 8 words 2 posts above yours.

 

 

I have read it again and respectfully disagree. 

[dataDave]

4 minutes ago, rgraves said:

On PAL or NTSC?

 

We'd all still be stuck with 50Hz virtual console (as well as region locking) if everybody kept quiet and said absolutely nothing critical about poor little Nintendo.

 

You lot can take the piss all you want, the pure fact of the matter is that we're all paying for worse netcode now than we did back when it was free. If you can't personally notice the difference, or why someone else might even after the technicalities are explained, then that's great. More Nintendo Power to you.

[MW_Jimmy]

6 minutes ago, moosegrinder said:

Being shot round corners is always annoying but it doesn't bother me nearly as much in Splatoon as it does in say CoD because the game made I play doesn't depend on k/d. Being knocked out prevents coverage but coordinated team play can beat shit connections.

 

 

Bingo. Coupled with the fact that so many weapons are pretty imprecise area/range affairs. Going into Splatoon to practice your sniping is a very funny concept to me.

 

Still agree online net code should be better, but I can't say it's ever actively made me annoyed. Short rounds help too.

[rgraves]

8 minutes ago, dataDave said:

 

We'd all still be stuck with 50Hz virtual console (as well as region locking) if everybody kept quiet and said absolutely nothing critical about poor little Nintendo.

 

I don't think anyone minds folks being critical, I think it's just the level of hyperbole that gets people. I mean, tick rate may be an issue for Spaltoon 3 - but it's going to actually bother only a tiny, tiny, tiny handful of players really. Nintendo are many, many things - but I don't think they are lazy or technically incompetent - they'll have their reasons, and it will have been a deliberate choice - not just something that's happened because they got the intern to do it.

 

Be critical sure, but also be reasonable and don't pull out the 'nobody can say a bad word about Nintendo' card as it really does undermine the argument. It's a bit like saying "I know you are all saying you're having fun, but you're not and I'm here to tell you why".

[dataDave]

2 minutes ago, rgraves said:

I mean, tick rate may be an issue for Spaltoon 3 - but it's going to actually bother only a tiny, tiny, tiny handful of players really.

 

Thousands, if Reddit is anything to go off. Agreed, that's tiny in consideration to the millions of children and ageing gamer dads who don't notice things like frame rates, resolutions, or internet connections. It's unfortunate that those in the middle have to live with this level of compromise in 2022.

[Kevvy Metal]

15 minutes ago, rgraves said:

 

On PAL or NTSC?

 

SECAM

[rgraves]

1 minute ago, dataDave said:

 

Thousands, if Reddit is anything to go off.

 

I'd bet a bollock that a good chunk of those would never have had the slightest clue there was something off if it hadn't been pointed out for them to object to in the first place. It's a bit like those DF videos zooming in and pixel counting then suddenly being followed by posts from people frothing that platform X/Y is 3% down on pixel resolution over platform X/Y every 1 million frames and as a result is terrible and all owners are defensive fanboys.

[rgraves]

2 minutes ago, Kevvy Metal said:

 

SECAM

 

Oh man, tick rate is the least of your problems - look at the colours!

[dataDave]

8 minutes ago, rgraves said:

I'd bet a bollock that a good chunk of those would never have had the slightest clue there was something off if it hadn't been pointed out for them to object to in the first place.

 

From reading a good selection of the posts that's not the case at all. Most posters seem to have more than reasonable technical experience with the series and a history of online gaming in general.

 

Also, it doesn't take much research to be well assured that Nintendo's online services, even outside of matchmaking, are aggressively shite. This is further exacerbated if you've played absolutely any other game online since something like 2008.

[Stoppy2000]

I've played a fair bit of Splatoon 2 and it's never been a problem finding a match and having a good time. Maybe now I know about this tick business I'll really dislike it 🤷‍♂️

[rgraves]

32 minutes ago, dataDave said:

Also, it doesn't take much research to be well assured that Nintendo's online services, even outside of matchmaking, are aggressively shite.

 

For 99% of people, they load up something like Mario Kart or Splatoon and play online. Done. It's not aggressively shite for them, it's simple and uncomplicated.

 

I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just saying they are making business decisions around their main audience, and the cost/ROI/risk on some features we think are 'essential' clearly don't stack up for them.

 

Question: If they had spent the millions extra required to match Sony/MS online, how many more units of Switch and/or MK8 do you think they would have sold as a result? How much of the market have they missed out on by not spending the cash/resources in that area this gen?

 

I get it, it sucks - but you can't fault the numbers and results on their end.

[dataDave]

10 minutes ago, rgraves said:

For 99% of people, they load up something like Mario Kart or Splatoon and play online. Done. It's not aggressively shite for them, it's simple and uncomplicated.

 

That's the same with practically all of online gaming. It's simple an uncomplicated. Only all of the other outlets (even the ones which are totally free of charge) offer dedicated servers and messaging capabilities as a bare minimum. Would you honestly say that organising Splatoon 2 League Battles was simple and uncomplicated?

 

Let's not compare Nintendo with practically everybody else on this front.

[rgraves]

I use motion controls.

[Strafe]

I imagine that as Splatoon has a bigger focus on literally shooting at the ground than it does at moving players a lot of people won’t notice as much about the tick rate. Still, I’d be surprised if anyone hadn’t had deaths (splats?) that they thought were unfair or they got the first shots off.