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Game-breaking items, weapons and moves


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Just now, Tomcat said:

The car selection in some Gran Turismo games.

 

Struggling with the Sunday Cup?  Pop along next time with a Formula 1 car against everyone else's VW Golf.


Thing is though, I just consider this to be a more fine grained difficulty system. If I want to vastly outclass them and romp away, who cares, it’s my game. If I want a real challenge then I pick a car that needs me to drive perfectly to win.

 

Same with some of these overpowered guns that make things too easy. I guess it’s bad for people with no will power who want a challenge but cannot turn down an in game overpowered choice.

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6 hours ago, Pob said:

I've not played it, but I've heard that Horizon Zero Dawn has a move where you hide in some long grass and do a 'lure' whistle to make a nearby Zoid wander over. Then you press a button to instantly take them down silently. Everyone says it's game-breaking and tbh it the idea of it puts me off playing the game a bit.

I've got to thank the forum for warning me about that Horizon one, I haven't used it more than a few times and I can see how broken it must be. It's pretty easy to sneak up on stuff anyway so it doesn't feel like you're at a disadvantage not using it.

 

One thing that does seem pretty busted in Horizon is the sniper bows. Most human enemies go down in one headshot and you can slow down time to make it impossible to miss. It also doesnt raise the alarm if you do it whilst they are isolated. I've been clearing out enemy camps without a scratch just by being patient. It's the combo with the slow motion aiming that makes it so OP, albeit satisfying. I find that silenced headshot weapons in most games kind of break them, unless you have good AI or limits on the effectiveness of the weapon.

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I don’t think I’d call any of them game breaking, because they are specific situations only, but the Souls games are riddled with things like this. Going all they way back to Demon’s Souls, I don’t think I ever beat the Flamelurker without trapping him on the stairs - numerous bosses and tough enemies can just be poisoned from afar and let you sit back and watch them die etc.

 

I just cheesed a really tough fight in Bloodborne by letting three enemies chase me into a cell wherein I closed the door and killed them through the bars. The thing is, I don’t think I would have survived otherwise so it’s more like ‘I found the solution’ than ‘I broke the game’.

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6 hours ago, JPL said:

Noob combo.

 

Hmmm. Pulling off the headshot consistently still requires skill and on Legendary, missing often means you're fucked (in particular, the Hanger level of Halo 2 where missing a shot means restarting that checkpoint, and even if you don't miss you might end up dying anyway because one of those sword bastards lunged at you from a mile away when you were dealing with one of its buddies), so I would argue this isn't game-breaking in the sense of it utterly ruining the game *and* being relatively easy to use. Also, it's not really that useful against the Flood. :P

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9 hours ago, Tomcat said:

The car selection in some Gran Turismo games.

 

Struggling with the Sunday Cup?  Pop along next time with a Formula 1 car against everyone else's VW Golf.

I was going to say Gran Turismo 3. The lack of any kind of balance of performance type rules meant that you could always bring a gun to a knife fight.

 

There were a couple of ways of being able to get said gun very early on in the game, depending on your skill level. Highly skilled could get golds on all the licence tests, giving you a selection of decent cars. Medium skilled could run a couple of race series and then pick up a race car within maybe an hour of playing (the Chevy Camero Race car from the Amatuer American series or my preferred Gillette Virtigo from the Amatuer European series). Lower skilled could take one of the early prize cars and run a sub one hour endurance race to get a massive wodge of cash and modify your car to the point that the opposition couldn't touch you.

 

There was also a quick route to getting the best non F1 car in the game, probably 30 hours before you were supposed to have anything that good (get something 4 wheel drive, complete all the rally races to get the Suzuki Escudo Pikes Peak, use the money from winning all the rally races to boost it to 1800bhp, win the Like The Wind race by miles, get the Mazda 787B). 

 

I played it way, way too much. 

 

One of the big criticisms of GT3 was that you had to work at having a competitive race. You either have no chance or you walk away with it 90% of the time. 

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Mortal Kombat 11 had Scorpion's teleport special that was completely overpowered for a while. Scorpion could pull it out at any time and would hit the opponent from behind without much warning. If you blocked the first hit, Scorpion could then either boost it with a meter burn hit that hit at a different hight to the first one (so one hit high, the other hit low/med iirc) or just throw you, which is unblockable. Even if you blocked the hits and avoided the throw, it was hard to get a reply hit in. If it did hit, it would set up a decent combo. This meant 99% of players you faced online used Scorpion and spammed this move. 

 

It was then nerfed in one of the first patches, fortunately. 

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Akuma in Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo. From the Shoryuken wiki:

 

Quote

Akuma has better projectiles than the rest of the cast, goes through other characters projectiles with his Tatsus and Teleports, controls distance better with his air Hadouken, is completely invulnerable to cross-ups due to invulnerable Tatsus and never dizzies (it looks like he gets dizzy, but Akuma recovers instantly, effectively saving him from longer comboes and juggles and that's it). He is much stronger than other characters and should not be used for competitive play.

 

Quote

Strengths

High priority normals, and most are fast to come out.

Great zoning game with two good ground fireballs that can knock down, as well as an air fireball that basically all the cast have no answer for.

Can easily escape from corner traps or bad situations with teleport.

High damage combos and specials, juggles well.

Inescapable corner trap on some characters/.

Two good offensive reversals in srk and tatsu.

Can play well offensively or defensively.

Good combo ability.

Cannot be dizzied.

 

Weaknesses

Below average range on normals.

No super.

Banned from basically everything.

 

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8 hours ago, Talvalin said:

 

Hmmm. Pulling off the headshot consistently still requires skill and on Legendary, missing often means you're fucked (in particular, the Hanger level of Halo 2 where missing a shot means restarting that checkpoint, and even if you don't miss you might end up dying anyway because one of those sword bastards lunged at you from a mile away when you were dealing with one of its buddies), so I would argue this isn't game-breaking in the sense of it utterly ruining the game *and* being relatively easy to use. Also, it's not really that useful against the Flood. :P

Yeah, I get what you mean, but if you get in the flow of things it definitely makes things a lot easier. As you mentioned those Elites in the Hangar at the start of Halo 2, I've tried loads of other ways to deal with them, but it's practically impossible without the noob combo. As hard as it still is, it makes that section so much easier than any other method it does feel like a bit of a cheat. It's also ridiculously overpowered in multiplayer as well, unless they've nerfed it in the later games, it's been that long since I've played any Halo online.

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This could probably better be described as a "game fixing" move, but the dash mechanic in twin stick shooters has always felt like a cop out to me.

 

At best it feels like a "get out of jail free" card for the player, and at worst a "we don't have to playtest to make sure our bullet patterns are actually dodgeable" card for the devs.

 

I'm torn on this because it's actually a really fun mechanic, it's really satisfying, same as bullet cancelling, but there are some games, not mentioning any names, where the cooldown is so short, and the i-frames so abundant, that there may as well not be any bullets on screen at all!

 

Healthbars.
"Gah, these deaths are starting to feel unfair, should we balance the difficulty?"
"Nah, just give the player a big ass health bar"
"It's still ridiculous"
"just leave health pick ups everywhere"

 

Same with checkpoints. If someone can chip away at your game, just barley reaching the next checkpoint, no need for balancing. Just fill the game with 100 checkpoints. Job done.

 

One specific one that springs to mind, just because I was talking about recently in another thread.

Yuan-Nang in gunbird feels like cheat mode, you get a big ass staff. I think they thought it'd be balanced because it's a melee weapon and you have to get up close to the enemies to use it so it's risky, but they made the charging time too short, the range too long, and on top of that it cancels some bullets, so once you've learnt the enemy placements and you get the rhythm of the charge down, you can just point blank a lot of the enemies and glide through the first loop at least.

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Phantasy Star Online 2's recently added Luster class.

In case you want a TL;DR: It's a new class they made at the end of the current game's life that trivialises everything and basically makes the game more like Devil May Cry:

 


In case you want a how:
 

Spoiler

Despite the daft name, Luster seems to be designed to solo pretty much every bit of content in the game prior to the entire game being rebooted (under New Genesis), even when compared to the other 'Scion' Class choices.

The Scion classes (the term used for advanced classes you can only access after hitting level 75 over multiple classes) are designed to use existing weapons in a completely busted manner, featuring massive amounts of damage and utility via an exclusive set of moves - Luster goes a step further, taking a weapon type that can be used by any class (that's been considered a bit of a joke since the game first came out - the Gunblade), and exclusively uses this weapon.

However, despite only getting to use a single weapon, you get the following as well as the above mentioned 'silly moveset that does lots of damage':

- Stances that change your standard attacks based on the weapon's element, including an area of effect explosion that will usually destroy every minor enemy on the screen or generate missiles that debuff the enemy's attack power as you attack.
- Said standard attack can be used as a constant movement skill
- You also have a dash attack that moves even faster, and will kill most things directly in front of you instead of around you
- Although the stances are elemental, the class automatically has a conversion passive that converts all elemental damage to a raw damage bonus
- You get a mechanic called Voltage, that increases your damage the more you hit things
- When you hit certain voltage thresholds, you automatically get buffs, debuff the enemies around you so your attacks ignore defences, get R-Type styled force satellite based on the elemental stance get increased critical strike chance, reduces cooldowns on your abilities (we'll get onto that) and restores your health and mana
- You get an ability called Luster Time. You activate it, you instantly get your R-Type force satellite, you take 30% less damage, and does burst damage on activation. When you click it again before it runs out, it does a special attack that shits out even more damage across everything you can see in front of you

This is without talking about the three main party pieces of the class:

- If for some reason you can't keep up with pressing a button combination over four separate buttons, the class comes with a Smart PA button - You press that button, the game decides what attack/combo you need to do based on the enemies around you, and just does it. You literally have a win button. Of course, if you want to pump out millions of DPS, you'll have to learn a couple of buttons instead.

- Every single thing mentioned above is cheap or free on the passive skill tree, meaning you're pumping every point into damage multipliers into the class. And you'll very likely get every single one by level 100.

- You get to use this class as a Subclass. Which doesn't make sense - Everyone gets to use the gunblade anyway, so why bother? Because unlike other Scion Classes, Luster's Voltage mechanic is not bound to Main Class. You like being hyper aggressive as a bog-standard Hunter, Ranger, Force, Gunner, Fighter, Techer or even Summoner? Well, slap Luster on as your Subclass, you now get a mechanic that stacks your damage and a million damage multipliers. That, well, you absolutely would have taken because all of Luster's Main class shit was free on the passive skill tree.

Providing you don't mind not having magic spells on classes that don't normally have them (in which case, Phantom's a better option), basically any class combined with Luster is a viable, high-risk option that doesn't require any additional skill trees to specialise in (which would cost you actual money in this F2P game).

So: It's fun to play, causes most boss fights to finish in seconds, gives an easy out to anyone who wants to fight all the end-game stuff by themselves, provides a one-button solution for casual players and has a bunch of universal bonuses that make other classes fun to play.

Everyone loves Luster, and is actively hoping that the development team are taking what they learnt with this and the other scion classes to make the standard classes in New Genesis feel really good to play, too.

 

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On Horizon Zero Dawn, I remember thinking several times that a particular weapon or skill was OP, but then suddenly meeting a new enemy type or variant that rendered it useless and having to radically rethink my strategy. I don't recall any one technique being useful throughout - it was quite cleverly balanced that way, in that it let you get comfortable then pulled the carpet out from under you. The lure skill might have been overpowered, but it definitely wasn't useful in most circumstances.

 

The worst example I can think of was on Frontier, whereby once you got a ship of a certain size, you could just fill it with shield generators and win every dogfight just by ramming your opponent. It was hardly an exemplar of game balance anyway, but one you got to that stage, you were effectively invincible.

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18 hours ago, Opinionated Ham Scarecrow said:

On a similar note, the elbow move in Double Dragon.

 

https://youtu.be/yScZTzAgORw

And shoulder charge in Golden Axe. Slow going but possible to complete the whole game with it, knocking even the biggest enemies back down as soon as they got up.

 

19 hours ago, Timmo said:

The dodge in Nier Automata. If you hammer dodge there are very few frames where you aren't invincible. It's really badly balanced. The whole game is a bit of a mess from an action perspective.

I can't remember the exact set up, but also from pretty early on I had a chip set that basically made it impossible to die. Auto-potion when you got below a certain percentage of health was part of it, but there were other passive abilities that also helped regain health without using finite potions.

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13 minutes ago, K said:

On Horizon Zero Dawn, I remember thinking several times that a particular weapon or skill was OP, but then suddenly meeting a new enemy type or variant that rendered it useless and having to radically rethink my strategy. I don't recall any one technique being useful throughout - it was quite cleverly balanced that way, in that it let you get comfortable then pulled the carpet out from under you. The lure skill might have been overpowered, but it definitely wasn't useful in most circumstances.

That's quite a fair assessment. I'm really far into the game now and I thought the ability to convert machines to fight for you (called Override) would be really OP once you could recruit most of the types, even the massive ones to your side. However, Override is quite well balanced:

- You have to get in melee distance to use Override.

- You can't use Override if enemies are already aggroed on you, meaning you have to get to melee distance to Override one without alerting it, or its friends.

- Once one enemy is converted, it will aggro the others around usually meaning you can't convert more than the first one.

- Override has a cooldown and whilst you are using it other enemies can still spot and attack you.

- If you damage a converted enemy a bit, it will lose its allegiance to you, so you can't just farm allied machines or go ham with area attacks for risk of damaging it.

- Missions that require you to kill machines won't accept Override as the final solution, so if there's still some giant machine you hacked left on the field at the end, you still have to aggro and kill it.

 

I think this is a good example of how you take what could be a broken mechanic like the ones listed above, and balance it to be fair. The game is designed with this ability in mind and it becomes part of the strategy of how to take on fights. It's also awesome.

 

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45 minutes ago, JPL said:

Yeah, I get what you mean, but if you get in the flow of things it definitely makes things a lot easier. As you mentioned those Elites in the Hangar at the start of Halo 2, I've tried loads of other ways to deal with them, but it's practically impossible without the noob combo. As hard as it still is, it makes that section so much easier than any other method it does feel like a bit of a cheat. It's also ridiculously overpowered in multiplayer as well, unless they've nerfed it in the later games, it's been that long since I've played any Halo online.

 

The fact that those sections are basically unplayable without the noob combo tells us that Bungie fucked up the Legendary balancing for Halo 2 and couldn't be arsed (or more likely didn't have time) to fix it. 

 

They did nerf it in later games for sure. In Halo 3, the tracking ability of the plasma pistol was reduced massively and also the charge slowly leeches away over time, so you can't just run around with a charged shot all the time and hit someone across the map like in the good old days. 

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1 hour ago, BadgerFarmer said:

I can't remember the exact set up, but also from pretty early on I had a chip set that basically made it impossible to die. Auto-potion when you got below a certain percentage of health was part of it, but there were other passive abilities that also helped regain health without using finite potions.


Similarly - gambits in FFXII, although in that game it’s kind of the point. :D I always end up with a White Mage who basically cancels out any ailment as soon as it’s inflicted, resurrects allies immediately, dispels enemy buffs, etc...

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19 hours ago, Opinionated Ham Scarecrow said:

On a similar note, the elbow move in Double Dragon.

 

https://youtu.be/yScZTzAgORw

 

I think this was one of the first games I beat in the arcades thanks to that move. Two buttons together and joystick in the opposite direction?

 

All I can remember is the game soundtrack playing and the seemingly endless 'hurh' grunt when you do the elbow.

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1 minute ago, Scruff said:

 

I think this was one of the first games I beat in the arcades thanks to that move. Two buttons together and joystick in the opposite direction?

 

All I can remember is the game soundtrack playing and the seemingly endless 'hurh' grunt when you do the elbow.

 

I used to come up from London to Rhyl to spend a week or two with my Dad during summers as a kid and he would give me and my brother a fiver each and fuck off to work all day. We quickly learned that the best way to make it last was to hit the arcades and elbow our way through Double Dragon. 40 odd minutes of entertainment for 20p was a good deal plus we got to beat hell out of each other at the end.

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8 minutes ago, Opinionated Ham Scarecrow said:

 

I used to come up from London to Rhyl to spend a week or two with my Dad during summers as a kid and he would give me and my brother a fiver each and fuck off to work all day. We quickly learned that the best way to make it last was to hit the arcades and elbow our way through Double Dragon. 40 odd minutes of entertainment for 20p was a good deal plus we got to beat hell out of each other at the end.

 

Exactly the same for me. My parents moved us out of London down to the south east Kent seaside so any school holiday was see how long you could make a quid last in the arcade. Double Dragon, Robocop, Wardner, Wonder Boy and hoping the arcade staff weren't looking so you could reset Mechanised Attack with the switch at the top of the cabinet to get free go's.

 

Simpler times :wub: 

 

*edit* I forgot Tecmo's Exciting Hour. You really could play that all day for 10p.

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You can finish pretty much the whole of mafia 4 by crouching behind something and whistling. Bad guys individually come and check and you can silent takedown each one, the best bit being you can then play a meta game of how big a pile of corpses you can make next to a door as they don't vanish until you leave an area. 

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1 hour ago, Talvalin said:

 

The fact that those sections are basically unplayable without the noob combo tells us that Bungie fucked up the Legendary balancing for Halo 2 and couldn't be arsed (or more likely didn't have time) to fix it. 

 

They did nerf it in later games for sure. In Halo 3, the tracking ability of the plasma pistol was reduced massively and also the charge slowly leeches away over time, so you can't just run around with a charged shot all the time and hit someone across the map like in the good old days. 

Ah yeah, I remember the charge going in Halo 3 now.

 

I do wonder if they knew how powerful the noob combo was in Halo CE though, or was it something that gamers figured out? Whether they did or not, it’s still way overpowered compared to any other combo in the game.

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18 hours ago, Monkeyspill said:

I seem to remember a certain sword in SOTN made the whole game a doddle, especially if you dual-wielded two of them. There was also a shield and rod combo that made it even easier. Both were basically cheat mode. 

I was just about to post Alucard shield and shield rod. Made the end boss take about 20 seconds. 

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26 minutes ago, ZOK said:

Speaking of Halo 2, didn’t we used to steal flags through the wall in CTF games? On the big map I think, I can’t remember the name of it.

Was it the level set on the island? Something about stealing flags through walls or floors rings a bell.

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