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Formula One 2021 - You spin me right round


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3 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

The problem is that you can’t have cars all running together on track but on different laps because of the blue flag system.  If a car is a lap down they would be blue flagged and it would be impossible for them to un-lap themselves until the field had spread out and there and a few seconds between each car which might not happen.

 

There are 2 obvious solutions to that

- 1 get rid of blue flags.

- Don't allow un-lapping.

Given that even once you've un-lapped yourself, you're still basically 99% of a lap behind anyway.

 

With the red flag situation we had today, there is also another option, you release cars from the pits at timed (according to gaps at the red flag being issued, or the lap before) using the red light at the end of the pits - thus re-instigating the race right where it was in the first place.

Of course, if you don't artificially close up the field, the racing looks even further apart than it probably is.

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16 minutes ago, mexos said:

Ric coming to McLaren has really ignited something with Lando. He would have known he’d need to step up and boy has he. He’s been super impressive.


People were saying Norris and Ric were going to be best chums and unending meme generators all season, but I reckon it’s going to get pretty spicy between them if this continues. New team or not, Lando’s taking Ric to school a bit right now.

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I think a lot of the reason is that reverse is protected behind multi-button inputs to stop drivers accidentally shifting down into it during the race and nuking their power unit/gearboxes. They figure that all things going to plan, drivers shouldn’t ever need it but they have to have it due to regs.

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Lando made an interesting point in the post race press conference, why didn’t Leclerc overtake Max when he was having his half spin before the restart.? I think he’d have been allowed to under the rules.

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Yeah I wondered about that. Max wasn’t off track for long but he’d made the mistake so... hmm. I think he must have been a bit confused himself as he then was a bit sloppy at the restart and got jumped by Lando.

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1 hour ago, Bob Sacamano said:

The problem is that you can’t have cars all running together on track but on different laps because of the blue flag system.  If a car is a lap down they would be blue flagged and it would be impossible for them to un-lap themselves until the field had spread out and there and a few seconds between each car which might not happen.

 

I would indeed also abolish blue flags in favour of a system where the car being lapped is not allowed to defend (even the 1 move).

 

If you can't pass someone that much slower then you don't deserve to win (Mr Bottas).

 

I should probably just write this all up, I'm sure a load of people won't agree and obviously it'd never get anywhere but I think it'd be better.

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1 hour ago, ryodi said:

Lando made an interesting point in the post race press conference, why didn’t Leclerc overtake Max when he was having his half spin before the restart.? I think he’d have been allowed to under the rules.


I mentioned it when it happened. Seeing the replay later, I think there was an opportunity, but equally, Max could have stepped on it and ploughed into the side of LeClerc, so perhaps just being cautious.

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2 hours ago, Dudley said:

I would indeed also abolish blue flags in favour of a system where the car being lapped is not allowed to defend (even the 1 move).

 

They wouldn't necessarily know they were about to be lapped without blue flags, unless their team radioed them, in which case, you might as well have blue flags. And if they're not allowed to defend, what would be the purpose of not having blue flags?

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For me the Russell/Bottas thing was, whilst a racing incident, was also Bottas' fault, he's done this before where he kind of does a half move forcing the overtaking driver to take avoiding manoeuvres, Coulthard made a point that there was loads of room before Russell's car hit the grass and span but he had no idea how far over Bottas was gonna move over.

 

Then Bottas claims you can't really overtake there when his team mate went from 6th to 2nd pulling that same move every single time? :lol:

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It's a racing incident but I put it at 60/40 Russell's fault. The straight kinks left and Bottas left him racing room and even moved to the left to give him more space when he was coming alongside, Russell then overeacted and went too far wide onto a wet patch that caused him to spin and hit Bottas. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Blue said:

 

They wouldn't necessarily know they were about to be lapped without blue flags, unless their team radioed them, in which case, you might as well have blue flags. And if they're not allowed to defend, what would be the purpose of not having blue flags?

 

They wouldn't need to move over within 3 marshal stations and a faster driver could actually unlap themselves as opposed to the farce now where the faster driver unlaps themselves and immediately gets blue flagged and has to let them through again.

 

As for not knowing, they've got radios but you could have advisory blue flags.

 

Incidentally this system is really close to Indycar's.

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49 minutes ago, wev said:

For me the Russell/Bottas thing was, whilst a racing incident, was also Bottas' fault, he's done this before where he kind of does a half move forcing the overtaking driver to take avoiding manoeuvres, Coulthard made a point that there was loads of room before Russell's car hit the grass and span but he had no idea how far over Bottas was gonna move over.

 

Then Bottas claims you can't really overtake there when his team mate went from 6th to 2nd pulling that same move every single time? :lol:

Well sure. bottas can’t really overtake there.

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45 minutes ago, wev said:

For me the Russell/Bottas thing was, whilst a racing incident, was also Bottas' fault, he's done this before where he kind of does a half move forcing the overtaking driver to take avoiding manoeuvres, Coulthard made a point that there was loads of room before Russell's car hit the grass and span but he had no idea how far over Bottas was gonna move over.

 

Then Bottas claims you can't really overtake there when his team mate went from 6th to 2nd pulling that same move every single time? :lol:


That’s odd as my take away is Bottas did nothing wrong; He left him the room and moved as that part of the track isn’t straight.

 

George had the room, got flustered, put it on the grass, nearly killed Bottas, then fucking freaked out. It was embarrassing watching him pin it all on Bottas in the interviews “Gentlemen agreement, if it was anyone else he wouldn’t do that” and painfully just wanting the number 2 seat at Mercedes.

 

My estimation of George has really fallen off a cliff in what a shit he was during and after that race. If I was Bottas, I would have flipped him more than the middle finger.

 

What an arsehole.

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The Anthony Davidson analysis doesn't show Bottas moving to the right after Russell has pulled out the slipstream, he does mention that Russell would have felt the gap was closing. Of course he, does then move to the left, partially to get out of the way and partially because that's the direction the track takes.

 

I'm not saying Bottas pushed Russell into the grass. I think Russell over compensated for Bottas initial movement.

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My take was Russel moved to avoid where Bottas would have been if he’d stayed on the same trajectory for another half a second instead of moving back to the left (a trajectory he was still on when Russel drew alongside), so you can’t blame Russel for the evasive action he took, but as Bottas didn’t actually stay on that trajectory you can’t blame him either.

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I think the problem may have been that Russell wasn't used to all that extra DRS speed he got. The closing speed was much higher and when Bottas wondered around on the track he over compensated. 

 

I always like it when drivers get out after a crash have a bit of a "discussion" about who did what. It makes me think they have a bit a passion under all that PR spin and media training. 

 

Bottas was cruising around not really watching what was going on, like he does. And Russell was smelling a points result. Ultimately a racing incident. 

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I’m another that thinks Russell was in the wrong. Not least because he seems to move into the pit exit lane quite early? Is that allowed?

 

There was a shit load of space to the right of Bottas. Russell tried to move up, went too far right, clipped the grass, lost control, and then drove into Bottas. You can literally see him go slightly right then sharply veer left. 

 

You can see it in the replay. At one point he’s like this. Straight, miles away from Bottas, and tires basically on the grass..

 

63D97FE6-A1E9-4934-B08C-47F01943876F.jpeg.11fcea48338a75ff7d3edf2028b91c35.jpeg

 

 

Then he’s like this. If anything, Bottas is further over to the left, and Russell’s car is now angled into his path. Bottas didn’t force him anywhere. 

F7F15CDA-530F-4FD5-A9D1-E4E3B815715B.jpeg.4540a222b61a4c2aedb45ba84e2d0f5a.jpeg

 

 

I’d also suggest that Russell’s aggression was because he knew he’d fucked up. 

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I’m another in the “likes Russell not a Bottas fan” camp but have to say I feel this was George’s fault. 
 

Bottas had every right to defend his position (and did, lightly) George didn’t react in time, put a wheel on the grass and the rest is history. 

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5 hours ago, NexivRed said:

I’m another that thinks Russell was in the wrong. Not least because he seems to move into the pit exit lane quite early? Is that allowed?

 

Yes, whether it should be is more debatable.

 

5 hours ago, NexivRed said:

You can see it in the replay. At one point he’s like this. Straight, miles away from Bottas, and tires basically on the grass..

 

63D97FE6-A1E9-4934-B08C-47F01943876F.jpeg.11fcea48338a75ff7d3edf2028b91c35.jpeg

 

This for me is why it's not his fault, there's already only 1 car width left and bottas is moving right at this point with a very fast closing speed, of course russell paniced.

 

But really the accident is the fault of too narrow a circuit and DRS which is in itself a very dangerous thing.

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Bottas' initial movement to the right was before Russell pulled out of the slipstream, which again I feel made Russell over compensate with the amount of space he left between the cars.

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17 minutes ago, Dudley said:

 

Yes, whether it should be is more debatable.

 

 

This for me is why it's not his fault, there's already only 1 car width left and bottas is moving right at this point with a very fast closing speed, of course russell paniced.

 

But really the accident is the fault of too narrow a circuit and DRS which is in itself a very dangerous thing.


Bottas didn’t leave less than a car width. There’s loads of space!
He’s entitled to move right when he’s in front, which he was for the majority of the time. Russell got his front wheel maybe in line with Bottas’ rear, but if he feels he’s getting squeezed then the onus is on him to brake. Not hit the grass at full speed complaining there’s no room to overtake. 
 

The track is super wide there and you can see on those images how much room there is. They’re hardly wheel to wheel.  
 

I love you, Dudley. But that’s a weird fucking take, m8. 

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I think Russell probably thought he detected a move from Bottas that wasn't actually there, or was just born out of one of the kinks in the track on that straight. I doubt there was any malice from Bottas, he doesn't really seem like that kind of driver. And Russell is coming on too strong in assuming so, though I think you can forgive the initial reaction because I can't imagine the adrenaline or how you'd feel after having a crash like that. One of the most high speed collisions we've seen in a while.

 

It's still just a racing incident for me. The still image shows a lot of room but that gap was closing and you're talking tiny split second decision making. Bottas's trajectory was taking him to the point where Russell would have been squeezed in another couple of milliseconds. And Russell reacts a touch too much and hits the wet grass with DRS open. In a race where where nearly everyone made a mistake at some point.

 

I'm surprised Russell is doubling down so much though hours afterwards having presumably watched replays. It's not going to win him any fans and Wolff/Merc are definitely not pleased.

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IMO I'd class it as a 'racing incident', but it's more Russell's fault that Bottas'. Bottas was following the racing line which he is entitled to do (racing line being the dry line which doesn't stay on the far left hand side of a left handed kink in the road). Russell didn't quite realise how much space was available whilst he was going at 180mph and ran onto the wet grass. If it was dry conditions he would probably have been fine and got the overtake.

 

I'm also disappointed by Russell doubling down on his take. He might look back in a few days and change his mind yet.

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What would you be less pleased about, your number 2 driver doing a really shit job on a safe pile of money, or your next number 2 driver trying to send a shit car round the outside of a potentially race winning car?

 

Williams need to find some money to keep him, and Mercedes need to send Bottas to indycar or formula E. As much as I think Russell has made an error here, I'd be pretty frustrated if that mug was keeping me out of 'my' seat. Bottas isn't even chumpion material anymore, Redbull could get the constructors this year and that's going to smart at Merc more than losing the WDC.

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