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Formula One 2021 - DRAMA - No refunds for you!


T Pot
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Yeah, it's a long term fairly obvious rule, you have to be able to hand over a litre at literally any stage, they couldn't.  It doesn't really matter if the car supposedly had 1.4 in it (which is what I presume the appeal will hinge on) they couldn't prove they were using legal fuel. Therefore, they are treated as if they weren't. 

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The FIA are going to give Vettel's car a shake, turn it upside down and hit the bottom of it to see if they can find the 1 litre of fuel Aston Martin say is in there

 

 

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Jeez, the one Sunday I go out.

 

Just finished.  Avoided all knowledge beforehand.  My word!

 

Had the choice between Sky and Channel 4 and so glad I went Sky for once, Nico is an absolute delight and I’m so glad we had him for the actual race commentary - think I’ve only caught him on practice before? Probably remembering wrongly.

 

Happy for Ocon, gutted for Vettel.  Alonso, what a guy. 
 

Sucks to be Max lol.  Sad for Lando.  Bottas went full wingman today.  
 

I’m exhausted.

 

Lewis clearly struggling by the time he got on the podium, Ocon was helping him up onto the step and off again.  :( 

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6 hours ago, kiroquai said:

 


😭 

 

 

Fucking hell that was exciting. I was gutted when it was rain, because I was looking forward to the tire strategies, but I’d watch that all over again in a heartbeat. Screw the summer break. 

 

I just love it how Alonso’s absolute epicness helped pave the way to his young team mate securing that win. I can’t imagine how hard it must be on the mind to maintain a lead, so he did amazingly well. 
And I love that he parked up at the end of the pit, cos I’m always aware of new stuff drivers have to do if they finish higher than normal. It was adorable seeing him not give a shit running back. 
Watching Alonso applaud him was so heartwarming. 
 

 

I’m gonna say this though; Lewis drove a fucking blinder. I think we just take it for granted these days what he does. That he can get himself to almost any position, from any position, in fewer than half the laps it takes anyone else. 
Yes, the car has the ability to get him there, but only if he gets it there. He looked awful. Ocon had to help him up onto the podium for the photo. 

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So…. what would have happened if Lewis had pitted too at the restart, ie there was no one on the starting grid? When would the drivers in the pit Lane - all of them - get to leave since the rule is they have to wait till the starting grid has gone past. Would they just show a green light at the end of the pit lane as soon as all five lights went out?
 

Also, I don’t know what the rules are about pitting at the end of the formation lap. Russell had to give some spots back so if Lewis had pitted would he have been guaranteed to come out in the lead, or - given where his pit box is - would he have come out last anyway?

 

Surprised that I’ve not seen/heard/read anything about this in the post race analysis (although maybe just missed it).

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16 hours ago, footle said:

AWS knows nothing.

 

I'm reasonably certain there's no AWS in F1, just as Tag Heuer never did the timing, there's a bloke typing things.

 

9 hours ago, ryodi said:

The FIA are going to give Vettel's car a shake, turn it upside down and hit the bottom of it to see if they can find the 1 litre of fuel Aston Martin say is in there

 

 

 

They didn't "lose" the car, they're the ones that appealed.  They're welcome to keep the car but they'll remain DQ'd.

 

I don't think I like this precedent though, now an appeal on a fairly straight technical matter is going to take weeks.  They need to quietly update that rule to say something like "easily" or "conventionally" extracted.  At this point we're heading for "You wouldn't know our fuel, it goes to another school".

 

16 minutes ago, Bushtopher said:

So…. what would have happened if Lewis had pitted too at the restart, ie there was no one on the starting grid? When would the drivers in the pit Lane - all of them - get to leave since the rule is they have to wait till the starting grid has gone past. Would they just show a green light at the end of the pit lane as soon as all five lights went out?
 

Also, I don’t know what the rules are about pitting at the end of the formation lap. Russell had to give some spots back so if Lewis had pitted would he have been guaranteed to come out in the lead, or - given where his pit box is - would he have come out last anyway?

 

Surprised that I’ve not seen/heard/read anything about this in the post race analysis (although maybe just missed it).

 

I believe they would have started the race, waited 10 seconds then released the field.

 

My guess is Russell would have given back spots he got on track, because he passed his teammate which in the pitlane would be impossible. You would have "started" in the order you left your pit box.

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34 minutes ago, Bushtopher said:

Russell had to give some spots back so if Lewis had pitted would he have been guaranteed to come out in the lead, or - given where his pit box is - would he have come out last anyway?


Russell was proper cheeky and never getting away with that, he basically drove past 4/5 stationary cars. He’s lucky the FIA didn’t have a clear ruling on what he should have done, otherwise it’d have been a drive though. At the same time, due to the pit box positions, he’d probably have had to sit and wait for the whole field to go past.

 

Lewis’s position would have been dictated by how quickly the team changed his tyres, and the results of unsafe releases etc. The reality is it’s a weird and dangerous situation, the only one I can think of where you can legally take a position prior to the race starting, and potentially encourages a dangerous pit lane with plenty of unsafe releases.

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I guess it's tricky because a blanket ban on doing that would be a mistake in the event of, eg-  a sudden downpour. Although in that case you could just as easily flag the race and let everyone change.  I'm not sure I like it for the same reasons you don't.

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Hah, yes - that said, I was very pleased for Latifi as it did come a few days after Dan Ticktum (who is a Williams reserve driver) called Latifi a bit rubbish. I mean, Latifi is no future world champion but anyone who rubs Dan Ticktum up the wrong way is likely to be looked upon favourably by me. Plus, he has been driving pretty well this season.

 

On another topic, in a world where we can ascertain infinite amounts of detail about any kind of fluid from a drop the size of a pinhead, why do the FIA still need a whole litre of fuel from an F1 car to judge if it is legal or not?

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Could running the cars dry each time bring some reliability issues? 

 

Also they probably don't like to see car littering the sides of the track at the end of a race.

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15 minutes ago, kiroquai said:

 

 

On another topic, in a world where we can ascertain infinite amounts of detail about any kind of fluid from a drop the size of a pinhead, why do the FIA still need a whole litre of fuel from an F1 car to judge if it is legal or not?

Given there's no refueling during a race, why don't they take their sample when the cars are being fueled? 

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Just now, Blue said:

Given there's no refueling during a race, why don't they take their sample when the cars are being fueled? 

 

Because it opens up an avenue of possible cheating.

 

This way it's absolutely with no debate the fuel actually used in the race.

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Just now, Dudley said:

 

Because it opens up an avenue of possible cheating.

 

This way it's absolutely with no debate the fuel actually used in the race.

Yeah, I guess so. 

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47 minutes ago, T Pot said:

Why does it have to be a full Litre? Surely the FIA can test a much smaller sample and know the legality of it.

 

Enough to allow for multiple tests if need be.  Also ensures you're not getting the absolute dregs out of the bottom of a tank which might themselves be contaminated.

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Binotto has joined Horner in thinking that teams whose driver has been found guilty of causing a crash should pay for the damage

 

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/guilty-rivals-should-pay-for-f1-crash-damage-says-ferrari/6641026/?_ga=2.97027743.1287416498.1627888869-59455386.1624264004

 

it’s motor racing, crashes happen. What sport did they think they signed up to?

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They can both gtfo. Imagine the shit show of an F1 where teams were responsible for paying for all other teams crash damage. They would take the piss. £100k for a wing mirror (slightly scratched) etc. Disputes would be protracted and very bitter.

 

A multi car crash attributed to one driver could kill a small team dead. 

 

Smaller teams would never run rookies, ever for fear of the bills they could cause. Kimi would still be driving at 56. :quote:

 

 

 

 

 

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Maybe allowances should be written into the cost cap to allow teams to repair damage from accidents that weren't their fault though. 

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The problem is, once the "at fault" status of a crash becomes something with a direct finanical impact, then that turns an already acrimonious situation into one where the results of a crash would be endlessly challenged and relitigated, even beyond what we've already seen.

 

It's notable that the teams complaining about this are the ones who have been most used to operating with an effectively unlimited budget.

 

What I find interesting about all yhis is - it wasn't a huge cock up from Bottas. he must have been, maybe 2 tenths later on the brakes than Lando, maybe less. He didn;t hit Lando massively hard. It wasn't your classic Grosjean-style desperate lunge turn 1 accident. Such a fine margin of error, with such huge consequences.

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What happens if and when a team maxes out their budget? Could we potentially end up with teams fielding only one car in the final race (and with that one car having half the front wing missing and a big hole in the bodywork) because they’re not allowed to spend any more on repairs?

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1 hour ago, ryodi said:

it’s motor racing, crashes happen. What sport did they think they signed up to?

 

It's something they've never dealt with before due to the new cost caps. Maybe the answer is leave it as it is now, or don't include repairs from crashes in your cost cap or something else entirely.

 

But I can certainly see why team bosses are now wanting the costs covered by another team in the event of accidents. Staff lost their jobs so teams could hit the budget this year, and it's only going to get tighter over the next couple as the cap goes down. 

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  • T Pot changed the title to Formula One 2021 - DRAMA - No refunds for you!
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