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Formula One 2021 - DRAMA - #Michael Messy


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It's one thing to say and not follow team orders (or at least not promptly) when it's about less obvious situations (i.e. both following an RB and Hamilton want's to have a go).

 

This case was stupid. He had no speed comparatively. It makes him look stupid not competetive.

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1 minute ago, thesnwmn said:

It's one thing to say and not follow team orders (or at least not promptly) when it's about less obvious situations (i.e. both following an RB and Hamilton want's to have a go).

 

This case was stupid. He had no speed comparatively. It makes him look stupid not competetive.

 

Absolutely. So petty. Wildly different strategies. If you're main selling point is that you are a good No.2 why throw all that away with these shenanigans. Which makes me think Bottas already knows he is out the door at the end of the year. 

 

Still, I'm surprised Toto took it so well, at least publicly. For the first time in a while Mercedes are in a proper fight and it is going to come down to Hamilton or Verstappen. Then you have Bottas deliberately getting in the way and potentially costing the team a win. I'd have been tempted to have him sit out a race frankly. 

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I think merc planned a two stop from the moment they sent Lewis out into second quali with a scrubbed set of used softs rather than a set of mediums. I don't think they cared too much that Max beat Lewis out of turn 1. It just cemented their choice to 2 stop. 

Lewis said post race "it's tough to make the tyres last round here". With DRS working the way it is now, there is a chance to overtake, if your Lewis Hamilton. 

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1 hour ago, McCoy said:

Absolutely. So petty. Wildly different strategies. If you're main selling point is that you are a good No.2 why throw all that away with these shenanigans.

 

Bottas is still working under the preposterous belief that he can win a championship. Tragic really. 

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10 hours ago, ryodi said:

Unlike Mercedes they didn't have a second set of medium tyres for Max so he could only pit for Softs or Hards. Hamilton had done to Max what he always does to Bottas when he's ahead and pushed Max to use up his tyres faster than he would have liked and would have overtaken him on track if Max had not pitted for his first pit stop. So when Mercedes pulled a Hungary 2019 they were stuffed because they knew the softs would not last and the hard wasn't a race tyre. All that was left was to pray for a safety car to save them. Max overtaking Hamilton at the start is the only reason we actually had a race, if he hadn't done that Hamilton would have sat comfortably 10 seconds ahead for the entire race with Max second and Bottas nowhere as always this season. 

That's what I mean though, if Verstappen had pitted when the softs came into play he would've at least had a better shot towards the end of the race considering how fucked those tires were.

Not having Perez in the mix didn't help but Bottas was nowhere anyway so it's not like he would've done anything.

 

I just think Red Bull were caught completely napping and let Merc school them hard.

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8 hours ago, John0 said:

Merc definitely got the second call right and the strategy overall obviously. But I'm still a bit confused about why they seemingly gave up track position after Red Bull's long first stop. They only went four laps longer because they then had to cover Bottas from jumping them. And then only ran a short middle stint anyway. What did those extra four laps buy them that it was worth giving up first position on track for? Feels like it's a bit less of a strategy masterclass than everyone is making out and Hamilton probably would have made it work anyway, baring any major screw ups.

 

So, Red Bull stopped Max as soon as he was green to... Ricciardo I think it was.  But he was only just ok to him, 21-22 second pit loss and 21.5 second gap.  Perez was still in front of Ricciardo, but not really a concern for Max.

I think they planned it at the start of the lap, at which point Hamilton was +2 seconds on Max, e.g. not safe.

Except things changed a little in the next 3/4 of a lap.

Hamilton went all in, closing the gap to 0.5 seconds by the time Max peeled off into the pits.

This burst of speed confirmed to Red Bull that Merc were pitting Hamilton, except he stayed out.

We don't know for sure if this was a "do what he doesn't" instruction or not, but we do know via team radio that Hamilton was later told he was target + 6 (and of course he stopped 5 laps later).

Had they stopped Hamilton on that lap, he'd have simply followed Max in and out again (well, he actually wouldn't have due to the Red Bull pit stop cock up, but they obviously didn't know that)

 

So, why did they go 5 laps longer and not just 1, taking into account the slow stop?

I think there are 4 obvious factors here:

1. Hamilton still wasn't safe to Perez, he'd have come out behind him.

2. Hamilton's pace was decent, and Max was pushing hard, an opportunity to let him kill his tyres.

3. Leaving the window open for a better 1 stop.

 

Merc simply pulled the pin on doing something different, and it worked for them, I think in part because the mediums weren't lasting as well as everyone thought they would.

 

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Whole thing is on youtube as well btw.

 

17 hours ago, McCoy said:

 

Absolutely. So petty. Wildly different strategies. If you're main selling point is that you are a good No.2 why throw all that away with these shenanigans. Which makes me think Bottas already knows he is out the door at the end of the year. 

 

Still, I'm surprised Toto took it so well, at least publicly. For the first time in a while Mercedes are in a proper fight and it is going to come down to Hamilton or Verstappen. Then you have Bottas deliberately getting in the way and potentially costing the team a win. I'd have been tempted to have him sit out a race frankly. 

 

Toto took it so well because he knows the problem is already sorted....

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So (although I know this is still an if) if we assume that Bottas is losing his seat to Russell in 2022 and all the parties are aware of this, does this shine a bit of a new light on Russell thinking Bottas did a little dirty twitch on him in Imola? Not that I think Bottas did, or want to defend Russell's outburst, but maybe his overreaction now adds up a liiittle bit more.

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I'm struggling to see how the Turkish Grand Prix can still take place. They'll have to quarantine in a hotel for 10 days after. Sure the next race is 2 weeks after but that's not enough time to get to and setup at Paul Ricard. Or can they just go straight to Paul Ricard? Super, super harsh on all the staff.

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27 minutes ago, LowCostMonkey said:

I'm struggling to see how the Turkish Grand Prix can still take place. They'll have to quarantine in a hotel for 10 days after. Sure the next race is 2 weeks after but that's not enough time to get to and setup at Paul Ricard. Or can they just go straight to Paul Ricard? Super, super harsh on all the staff.

 

Yep, that's the only realistic scenario that none of the teams come back to the UK. Not sure it is a viable option but seems to be the only plausible option. 

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I probably like Bottas more than most people in here but I can still see why Mercedes would be looking to bed in someone new as a potential team leader in Hamiltons final few years. I don't get why people assume Russell is such a done deal for next year though. I just don't see why Mercedes would commit to him at this point. There doesn't appear to be any danger of him going to another team so why not sit back and assess the entire field for another few months before settling on a Bottas replacement? 

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1 hour ago, layten said:

:sherlock:

 


I get the insinuation, but that aside, that’s really cool. Assuming 190K Euro isn’t a terrible price for that car, to meet with one of the best drivers in the world and do some karting, chat cars etc world be such an amazing time!

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8 hours ago, bear said:

I don't get why people assume Russell is such a done deal for next year though. I just don't see why Mercedes would commit to him at this point. There doesn't appear to be any danger of him going to another team so why not sit back and assess the entire field for another few months before settling on a Bottas replacement? 

I think he's a done deal because they have been nurturing him for the role for many years. They have been assessing him of course and will continue to do so, but he has done nothing but impress except when he tried to kill Valtteri, including almost winning with his one chance in the top car that they had to use a crow bar to get him into and he had only driven for two days. If anything, I'd say they've already delayed a year too long. 

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3 hours ago, Blue said:

I think he's a done deal because they have been nurturing him for the role for many years. They have been assessing him of course and will continue to do so, but he has done nothing but impress except when he tried to kill Valtteri, including almost winning with his one chance in the top car that they had to use a crow bar to get him into and he had only driven for two days. If anything, I'd say they've already delayed a year too long. 

 

Agreed. Russel's efforts last year in Bahrain look even more impressive when you see the current issues the drivers who have switched teams this year are having. With limited testing it has taken, I'd say all of them, at least four races to even look close to what you'd expect of them. That speaks volumes that George was able to jump in the car last year and effectively beat Bottas in his first go.  

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22 minutes ago, McCoy said:

 

Agreed. Russel's efforts last year in Bahrain look even more impressive when you see the current issues the drivers who have switched teams this year are having. With limited testing it has taken, I'd say all of them, at least four races to even look close to what you'd expect of them. That speaks volumes that George was able to jump in the car last year and effectively beat Bottas in his first go.  

 

Every waking moment when he's not with Williams doing work for the team I'll bet he's been in the Merc simulator.

 

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1 hour ago, mexos said:

 

Every waking moment when he's not with Williams doing work for the team I'll bet he's been in the Merc simulator.

 

 

Maybe. I'd be slightly surprised if Mercedes gave much information to a person who is currently in another team. It would be like inviting Ocon for a factory tour and a go on the 2021 Mercedes simulator. 

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Except Ocon drives a Renault Alpine, Williams are a Mercedes customer team, Russell is a Mercedes junior driver, Wolff is his manager, there may be something within his contract that gives him time in the simulator.

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27 minutes ago, McCoy said:

 

Maybe. I'd be slightly surprised if Mercedes gave much information to a person who is currently in another team. It would be like inviting Ocon for a factory tour and a go on the 2021 Mercedes simulator. 

 

It's not really a regular set up though is it. George is clearly the heir + his current team happily let him drive for Merc last year. Williams have a very nice relationship with Merc, after all Toto was a part of that very same team and they buy (or get gratis / cut price for running George) lots of Merc bits for their car.

 

George giving information to Williams. Would he really risk it all to do that? Doubt.

 

Ocon is half out the Merc door and his current team have no technology transfer or deals in pace. Very different imo.

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1 hour ago, mexos said:

George giving information to Williams. Would he really risk it all to do that? Doubt.

 

Dunno. Spending 21 races pooling round the back in a Williams when you know there is a simply change they could apply to make you faster. It would be very tempting to let slip a few hints to the team. 

 

I'm not even sure spending time in a simulator is going to do the job anyway. All the drivers who have switched teams could have spent every waking moment from 1st Jan 2021 in their respective simulators but, if they have done, it certainly hasn't provided any benefit to race and quali pace in real life. In comparison, Russell was able to jump in the Merc and effectively beat Bottas. 

 

You can put it down to a number of things, I just put it down to the fact that he is a much better driver than Bottas. 

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10 hours ago, McCoy said:

 

Agreed. Russel's efforts last year in Bahrain look even more impressive when you see the current issues the drivers who have switched teams this year are having. With limited testing it has taken, I'd say all of them, at least four races to even look close to what you'd expect of them. That speaks volumes that George was able to jump in the car last year and effectively beat Bottas in his first go.  

                    

You do have to take into account the unique track of course, which is why it's a shame we didn't get to see him in the next race.

 

The fact Hamilton exploded off his death bed to make sure that didn't happen probably gives you a better idea he's quick than a race on F1's weirdest track.

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39 minutes ago, Dudley said:

The fact Hamilton exploded off his death bed to make sure that didn't happen probably gives you a better idea he's quick than a race on F1's weirdest track.


That was interesting wasn’t it. He saw the danger. Best get back and get him out of the car before Toto gets any further ideas. 

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