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Formula One 2021 - DRAMA - #Michael Messy


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1 hour ago, John0 said:

Might be an outside chance of points for Williams here! Race pace looks ok and they stole pitstops under the SC.

Not that close in the end but that's still the best showing we've seen from Williams in a "normal" race for quite some time. Was genuinely pretty pumped when Russell was catching Alonso for 10th!

 

Another good race! Max and Lewis have been side-by-side in every race so far. Though seems like Merc are ominously edging away. Think Max made that way more interesting than it had any right to be today.

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1 hour ago, Sidewaysbob said:

Anyone that things Russell could do a better job than Bottas in the merc is fooling themselves. The only driver to trouble Lewis, is Lewis. 

 

This would be a hell of a take if Russell hadn't already jumped into a Mercedes and immediately done a better job than Bottas.

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31 minutes ago, Blue said:

No, Merc strategists schooled RB's strategists. Max did everything he could.


Lewis would have passed max even if he didn’t pit, he was clearly much quicker - the strat call was team based to promote Bottas having forced Max to pit…..

 

Lewis doesn’t lose that race in Max’s position, there is already proof of this…

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Just finished watching the C4 highlights after a day out in the park. I really don’t like C4’s coverage at all.

 

Great race. Proper GT Sport dive bomb by Max into the first corner. Props to Ham for jumping out the way, that was a crash in the making. It would have been interesting to see what the reaction would have been had contact happened.

 

In the end it was peak Ham / Merc. It was like watching Michael and Ferrari at their peak. Bossed it. That will hurt Max and RB.

 

 

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6 hours ago, NexivRed said:

Why the fuck didn’t Red Bull pit him ffs. Absolutely no response to Mercedes’ strategy whatsoever. Just limp home. I’d be livid. 

I'm still thinking about this. They had pace, they could've pit once their soft tires came into play and pressured Hamilton at the end but instead they let Verstappen hang himself out to dry in the hope of either a safety car or traffic? 

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1 hour ago, ryodi said:

Unlike Mercedes they didn't have a second set of medium tyres for Max so he could only pit for Softs or Hards. Hamilton had done to Max what he always does to Bottas when he's ahead and pushed Max to use up his tyres faster than he would have liked and would have overtaken him on track if Max had not pitted for his first pit stop. So when Mercedes pulled a Hungary 2019 they were stuffed because they knew the softs would not last and the hard wasn't a race tyre. All that was left was to pray for a safety car to save them. Max overtaking Hamilton at the start is the only reason we actually had a race, if he hadn't done that Hamilton would have sat comfortably 10 seconds ahead for the entire race with Max second and Bottas nowhere as always this season. 


Indeed, it’s no coincidence Lewis sat behind max permanently threatening DRS before the first stop and then as soon as he did stop he ate into that lead so rapidly it should have been obvious to Max/Redbull he was toying with them!

 

I mean they should have known, Bottas even told them the plan after quali…..

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Sky did nothing but talk about how Merc had a spare set of mediums available. But everyone kept saying "it's a one stop race, it's impossible to overtake". Redbulls hubris let them think they had a faster car that could hold off the Mercs. 

 

Also. They kept Lewis out for 5 more laps after Max stopped. Making everyone believe they were going to take the mediums to the end and hope Lewis had more life left in the tyres at the end. The second stop, as telegraphed it was, caught everyone out. 

 

This was a total team Mercedes effort, and Bottas. 

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We needed to see Russell in the Mercedes at Abu Dhabi to get a real idea of how good he is. Tsunoda looked amazing in Bahrain but has been average ever since. But I think Bottas knows his days are numbered and Russell will be in the Mercedes next year.

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39 minutes ago, Shimmyhill said:


Indeed, it’s no coincidence Lewis sat behind max permanently threatening DRS before the first stop and then as soon as he did stop he ate into that lead so rapidly it should have been obvious to Max/Redbull he was toying with them!

 

I mean they should have known, Bottas even told them the plan after quali…..

I think that's gonna be the story of the season, for all the talk of the battle between Verstappen and Hamilton, Hamilton just had enough left in him to basically keep Max thinking he's in with a chance. He's really not and it's gonna be glorious when that penny drops

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Merc definitely got the second call right and the strategy overall obviously. But I'm still a bit confused about why they seemingly gave up track position after Red Bull's long first stop. They only went four laps longer because they then had to cover Bottas from jumping them. And then only ran a short middle stint anyway. What did those extra four laps buy them that it was worth giving up first position on track for? Feels like it's a bit less of a strategy masterclass than everyone is making out and Hamilton probably would have made it work anyway, baring any major screw ups.

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On The-Race podcast they said by Turn 10 of the lap Max pitted on Mercedes models showed that they weren’t going to be able to undercut him so they left Hamilton out. Maybe forcing all teams to use AWS who said Hamilton was safe by 1.5s would make the racing more interesting.

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When Max had the long stop it seemed to me like a no brainer to pit Ham as I thought he'd just nick the lead. I was perplexed at why they did it - especially since they made the second stint so short. That was a mistake imo. Track position at Circuit Cat has traditionally been king. 

 

The masterclass was the way the recovered from it. They spotted the op and had the driver who could deliver on it.

 

In a race where Merc just covered off RB who knows, maybe Max would have been able to eek out the tyres and get past. They must have been wary of it, hence going super agressive.

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10 minutes ago, mexos said:

When Max had the long stop it seemed to me like a no brainer to pit Ham as I thought he'd just nick the lead. I was perplexed at why they did it - especially since they made the second stint so short. That was a mistake imo. Track position at Circuit Cat has traditionally been king. 

 

The masterclass was the way the recovered from it. They spotted the op and had the driver who could deliver on it.

 

In a race where Merc just covered off RB who knows, maybe Max would have been able to eek out the tyres and get past. They must have been wary of it, hence going super agressive.

 

Agreed. I felt like they were caught napping a little there. Either already very committed to their strategy concept that they didn't really react to the long stop from RB or privy to something else.

 

But... I wonder what happens if they had got the lead there. Do they still pull the pin on a second stop? Very hard to tell I guess. RB would have struggled with doing the same strategy because Bottas was going to get in the way (although he did for Hamilton too, he was just so much faster it didn't really matter).

 

All in all I don't think it was flawless from Merc but excellent strategy work overall and a fabulous drive from Hamilton. I don't think RB had an answer though either way. If left out before the second stop I think Hamilton may  have had the chance to overtake Max in the next few laps anyway. The lead had come down very quickly. What I thought was Max managing tyres suddenly looked more like a real pace or tyre wear advantage.

 

Some great radio between Hamilton and his engineer too. "We might not have any tyres left when I catch him". "He'll have less".

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Also got to say, Bottas. What the actual F. 

 

Really? You hold him up for how long? If I was Toto I would have wrecked him in the debrief in front of the team. It was just totally unprofessional. In no way shape or form was he in the same race so to do what he did was a massive yellow card. 

 

Bono had told Lewis he'd catch Max on the last lap, so every tenth counted. Imagine if that hold up cost the race win. I would have fired his sorry ass.

 

Want to actually be in the fight? Cool. BE FASTER. Maybe he already knows it's all over and he's pissed. Either way that was not driving like you want to keep the seat. I was furious at the time. Not because I desperately wanted Lewis to win, more at a dick move that could have compromised what was a great strategic fight for a win.

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Bottas admitting it in his post race interview was even more bizarre. The pass was so easy in the end he could have just claimed he'd let him past to keep up appearances, but he just said he had to concentrate on his race and the pit window to Leclerc so he couldn't think about anyone else's race. Being a team player has been one of, if not the, best reason for Merc to keep him on. Why throw that away now? Unless the writing is already on the wall.

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Could well be. The only way he’s going to win a title is to keep that seat until Hamilton retires and hope Mercedes deliver another unbeatable car that year, so it makes no sense to not play the team game unless he knows he’s already out.

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A year or two ago that was a sweet strategy. However in the meantime Ham has arguably got better (I know lol!) and his talk of retiring sooner rather than later has flipped 180.

 

Ham will be in Merc for at least the next couple of seasons imo, where as Bottas will not. 

 

It's use him or lose him time for Toto and George and baring any huge unforeseen events (like Bottas suddenly destroying Lewis week in week out) I think he will be in the car next year. 

 

Ocon is doing better against Alonso than I expected but I fear its too little too late to get a shot at the big time. I think Toto will keep him in the stable for now as insurance in case RUS doesn't work out.

 

 

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2 hours ago, mexos said:

A year or two ago that was a sweet strategy. However in the meantime Ham has arguably got better (I know lol!) and his talk of retiring sooner rather than later has flipped 180.

 

Ham will be in Merc for at least the next couple of seasons imo, where as Bottas will not. 

 

It's use him or lose him time for Toto and George and baring any huge unforeseen events (like Bottas suddenly destroying Lewis week in week out) I think he will be in the car next year. 

 

Ocon is doing better against Alonso than I expected but I fear its too little too late to get a shot at the big time. I think Toto will keep him in the stable for now as insurance in case RUS doesn't work out.

 

 

 

Frankly I think the decision has been made to replace Bottas with Russell and that it will be announced around the Summer break, presumably along with the announcement of a contract extension for Hamilton. 

 

I think Hamilton will be here for a few more years but Mercedes now need to look at the after Hamilton era and Bottas is never going to feature as team leader in that conversation. Better then to bed in Russell for a few years, let him learn from Hamilton and then if he doesn't work out you can go outside the stable and look at Verstappen or Nando. There's no benefit to pairing someone like Russell with Bottas since you want him to learn from the best not learn how to be Bottas Mark 6. 

 

Bottas is an average to good driver but he's never going to be exceptional in the way that Hamilton and Verstappen are. If Hamilton could drive on forever you might keep Bottas around as a no.2 but one day Hamilton will call it a day and you have to hope that Mercedes want the person to take over already in the team when that happens. 

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9 minutes ago, McCoy said:

 

Bottas is an average to good driver but he's never going to be exceptional in the way that Hamilton and Verstappen are. If Hamilton could drive on forever you might keep Bottas around as a no.2 but one day Hamilton will call it a day and you have to hope that Mercedes want the person to take over already in the team when that happens. 

 

And I think the brinksmanship on Hamilton's contract this year made that obvious.

 

If you'd had Bottas and say, Perez (the best that was available between years) in that team this year than it's difficult to argue Max would not currently be sitting on a 4 race winning streak.

 

Or you'd probably have Hulk who would probably have finally got that podium but still wouldn't be touching Max.

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