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Formula One 2021 - DRAMA - #Michael Messy


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I just hope they kick Masi out and have a complete rethink of the structure of race control after the dreadful season(s) of race directorship he's given us. Not sure I have any appetite to watch another race if he continues in any capacity of responsibility. 

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4 minutes ago, Baring said:

I'll go back to a previous post. You don't lose the world title on a single lap. 

 

They really should be at the gala representing the whole team and delivering a message. 

 

Nah. I get not pursuing the appeal but you don't turn up meekly to the FIA's shitty corporate event. 

 

Defo celebrate, but do something fun for everyone at the factory. 

 

As for Lewis, he has 7 titles already - I am sure he's got better things to do than attend. That was probably part of the deal to not proceed with the appeal - that Lewis could skip the event and not get into trouble. It's been a longstanding joke that drivers would prefer to finish 4th than 3rd in the Championship so that they don't have to attend. 

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Well yes and no.

 

The argument is he lost it just as much when he forgot how brakes work at Baku.

 

Or in a very slightly parallel universe, that he won it just as much when Verstappen's tyres forgot how they worked in Baku.

 

Or neither of those things happened, they finished 1-2 there and Verstappen just needed 2nd at Abu which he got under the safety car and Mercedes are bitching the FIA didn't let Sainz have a go at him....

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10 minutes ago, Blue said:

Yes, I'm well aware of the argument. Max led by far the most laps, had more wins and poles, tyre blows up etc etc. Its bollocks. 

Fact is, Merc and Lewis staged a miraculous comeback and had the championship they deserved snatched away from them in one lap, unfairly. 

 

 

Yeah, Max was a worthy overall winner but did he deserve to win the final race, and with it the championship, based on his performance in Abu Dhabi and based on our pre-existing understanding of F1 race rules? No. 

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2 hours ago, Dudley said:

The argument is he lost it just as much when he forgot how brakes work at Baku.

 

Or when points (and crucially a 'win' that meant he could be gung-ho in later races with more 'wins' than his rival) were given out for a race that never really happened just so they didn't have to give refunds.....

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53 minutes ago, McCoy said:

 

Yeah, Max was a worthy overall winner but did he deserve to win the final race, and with it the championship, based on his performance in Abu Dhabi and based on our pre-existing understanding of F1 race rules? No. 


Therefore I’d say he’s not really a worthy winner. It would be like the ridiculously high quality Liverpool / Man City title race in 2018/19 being determined by the Premier League deciding with 15 minutes to play that the next team to score in their match gets 5 points for the win.

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It marrs Max's world championship, which is a shame as it wasn't his fault. 

Martin Brundle made a good point the other day, which I'm sure many of you were already aware of but I wasn't. He said he has been suggesting for years that lapped cars fall back instead of overtaking the safety car. Made me think, why the hell did it ever come to be any other way?  Lapped cars should just let the cars past that should be ahead of them. Far safer for marshals, takes less time, allows the front runners to continue to weave for tyre temp, safety car can come in earlier, etc. 

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1 hour ago, Baring said:

Lewis is going to call it a day isnt he.

Get Christmas out of the way, have a few projects on the go and not be bothered with the F1 circus for another year.

 

New era and regs also. 

 

If he'd won, absolutely. But he wants 8, whatever he says.

 

What I do think is, if the Merc isn't at least in the position it was this year and if he's not at least vaguely confident of out dragging Russell over a whole 2023 he's gone at the end of next year.  He's not going to want to spend years building up to a tilt again.

 

7 minutes ago, Blue said:

It marrs Max's world championship, which is a shame as it wasn't his fault. 

Martin Brundle made a good point the other day, which I'm sure many of you were already aware of but I wasn't. He said he has been suggesting for years that lapped cars fall back instead of overtaking the safety car. Made me think, why the hell did it ever come to be any other way?  Lapped cars should just let the cars past that should be ahead of them. Far safer for marshals, takes less time, allows the front runners to continue to weave for tyre temp, safety car can come in earlier, etc. 

 

Just as stupid really.

 

I'm in 4th, 1 second behind 3rd.

Lewis comes up and laps me, before he goes past 3rd, boom Latifi stacks it and there's an SC.

 

Current situation : I unlap myself and continue to race the car just ahead of me.

Your situation : I have to let a car that was 1 second ahead of me get an entire lap on me because of "The show". 

 

Just abandon the whole concept. Lewis passed those cars, Max should have to pass those cars. I recognise this also penalises me to a degree but at least I'm on the same lap as 3rd even if I'm 0.8 laps behind, another SC could change that.  If I'm a lap behind him then I'll have to pass him twice.

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If cars a lap down are dropped to the back instead of getting a lap back when the race restarts the first lapped car in the queue is a sitting duck because he can’t attack the car in front him because he’ll get blue flags as soon as he overtakes but the car behind him can attack the first lapped car and he has no way to defend.


Brundles argument is also a handy distraction from Masi’s mistake that Sky F1 tried to avoid talking about on Sunday.

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There is that, another victory for our "At all costs stop people having to race" blue flag laws.   It's me in that scenario, I could have been catching 3rd, now I'm right behind him but a lap down. If I unlap myself, I'm getting flagged straight back.

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Lapped cars shouldn't drop back because that's less wear, make them go round the track just like everyone else to ensure similar amount of wear (and yes I know the wear won't be as much as if they "raced" but it'll be more than dropping back within a few hundred yards of track).

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19 minutes ago, Dudley said:

 

If he'd won, absolutely. But he wants 8, whatever he says.

 

What I do think is, if the Merc isn't at least in the position it was this year and if he's not at least vaguely confident of out dragging Russell over a whole 2023 he's gone at the end of next year.  He's not going to want to spend years building up to a tilt again.


I have a suspicion Russell will be told in no uncertain terms he isn’t winning the next title (assuming the car is definitely title material) and that he can look forward to being their #1 driver in a year or two.

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Much as it sucks it would make sense. If Mercedes had played a pure Number One Driver game all year then Hamilton could have gone into the final race three points ahead (Bottas giving up 2nd in Austria to finish 4th and bump Hamilton to 3rd) and taken a very different line when Verstappen made both his big overtake attempts.

Perez meanwhile never took a single point off Verstappen, only finished ahead when Max was out of the points/race.

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13 minutes ago, AstroBot said:


That’s just stupid and massively based on hindsight.  Make a decision involving 3 points in the 9th race because they might have the same points final race….christ.  They struggled with strategy in a single race most of the time.


There are numerous possibilities where it could have been even more critical. Just saying having number one driver does make sense even if it sucks for the overall race.

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1 hour ago, Blue said:

Can't get my brain around it at all at the moment. Lapped cars should end up in the same position as they do when they overtake the safety car and rejoin the back of the line, no? 

 

Yes but what if a group is being lapped, you're putting half that group a lap down on the rest.

 

In the current situation half the group ends up most of a lap ahead sure but one more SC fixes that if you can't race your way back up.

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15 minutes ago, Dudley said:

 

Yes but what if a group is being lapped, you're putting half that group a lap down on the rest.

 

In the current situation half the group ends up most of a lap ahead sure but one more SC fixes that if you can't race your way back up.

I literally can't understand any of these scenarios, sorry, so I'll stop even trying. I vote everyone stays where they are. :D

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30 minutes ago, Blue said:

I literally can't understand any of these scenarios, sorry, so I'll stop even trying. I vote everyone stays where they are. :D

I’m glad it’s not just me! I genuinely can’t understand how having the lapped cars move backwards through the field would end up with a different result to what you get now. :lol:

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26 minutes ago, MrCarrot said:

I’m glad it’s not just me! I genuinely can’t understand how having the lapped cars move backwards through the field would end up with a different result to what you get now. :lol:

 

I guess the issue is that you'd have to amend the rules/timing screens so they are not being lapped for a second time. 

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