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Formula One 2021 - DRAMA - #Michael Messy


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1 hour ago, jonathanhoey said:


From memory so I’m paraphrasing, but we heard Masi offering Red Bull the suggestion that Max would have to take the restart from P2. What he was actually offering was 1 HAM, 2 VER (and 3-20 who cares/don’t know).

 

Red Bull came back with “We’ll take P2 but only if Ocon is P1.” This was fairly obvious shithousery from them. 
 

Masi then had to concede that what he meant was Max to start behind Lewis, and then he waffled something about “I mis-spoke”, as it must have been pointed out to him that actually Ocon had gotten through when Lewis was taking his evasive action to avoid getting yeeted into the shadow realm by Max. 


Hence we ended up restarting OCO HAM VER.

 

Yep, that's what I mean when I said Red Bull played them.  Ocon should have started behind but that was what they baited Massi into expertly, giving them the good side of the grid.

 

17 minutes ago, Sidewaysbob said:

They could go to Indy car with its even more stupid manipulation rules.

 

And remember Indycar is a series literally owned by one of the teams.

 

Imagine if Red Bull owned F1.

 

9 minutes ago, denisb said:

But surely as the FiA have broken there own rules they could argue a case ?

 

The FIA haven't broken their own rules though legally speaking, they followed the "Masi can do what the fuck he likes" rule.

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6 minutes ago, JohnC said:

It's funny that it's now unthinkable that they would leave when at the start of the season people were talking about them selling up to Ineos and leaving.

 

Oh THEY can leave.

 

But the team can't.  If they can find someone else to take over the contracts Mercedes can do what they like, they've already reduced their stake in the team to 1/3rd.

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8 minutes ago, Dudley said:

 

Yep, that's what I mean when I said Red Bull played them.  Ocon should have started behind but that was what they baited Massi into expertly, giving them the good side of the grid.

 

 

And remember Indycar is a series literally owned by one of the teams.

 

Imagine if Red Bull owned F1.

 

 

The FIA haven't broken their own rules though legally speaking, they followed the "Masi can do what the fuck he likes" rule.

 

I'm still not certain everything can be brushed under the carpet even with those ridiculous Masi can do whatever he wants rule. 

 

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If the clerk of the course considers it safe to do so, and the message "LAPPED CARS MAY NOW OVERTAKE" has been sent to all Competitors via the official messaging system, any cars that have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass the cars on the lead lap and the Safety Car. 

 

Clearly that message was not sent.

 

I'm also not convinced that 'any' can in some situation not mean 'all'.  Any cars lapped by the leader will be required to pass the cars on the lead lap. How that can be construed to end up as some lapped cars I'm not sure. 

 

I've always thought the lapped cars issue is more of a obvious fuck up than the Safety Car (although that was pretty dubious). 

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5 minutes ago, Dudley said:

 

Oh THEY can leave.

 

But the team can't.  If they can find someone else to take over the contracts Mercedes can do what they like, they've already reduced their stake in the team to 1/3rd.

 

Can Mercedes keep the team and reduce the headcount to two drivers and a support dog? 

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4 minutes ago, GwiDan said:

https://wp.me/ppB1o-crA
 

Pretty interesting column by Saward on the race. I know nobody here likes him, but it’s a decent read. 

 

Pretty much gave up here:

 

Quote

Then Masi gave the instruction that only the cars between Hamilton and Verstappen should unlap themselves.  Masi’s instruction was logical in that the cars behind Max were irrelevant and there was no time to clear them all. They did not matter. The ones between Lewis and Max would get in the way of the title fight. But with Max on new tyres and Lewis on old tyres this effectively gave Max a chance to snatch the title. Max took it. Lewis tried to stop it.

 

Simply disagree. 

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9 minutes ago, McCoy said:

 

Pretty much gave up here:

 

 

Simply disagree. 

You should have carried on, it gets even better.

 

Quote

It wasn’t fair perhaps, but it was within the rules. Live sport has a habit of creating such insane situations and referees have to deal with them. Masi did nothing wrong. He used the powers he has to do what he felt was best was the World Championship. What happened was no-one’s fault. Max was lucky. Lewis was not. 

 

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You might as well argue that at the point they can’t mathematically win the championship there is no point in that driver participating in the race, after all they can have no bearing on it. I mean it’s not like a driver who wasn’t in contention crashed and caused this situation in the first place…

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5 hours ago, ryodi said:

Ive read suggestions that Masi didn’t realise Max had pitted again so thought it would a sort of a fair fight. That of course shouldn’t even be a consideration. Mercedes are going to get some kind of compensation out of the FIA but I expect Max to keep the title from F1’s very own Montreal Screwjob.

So he's even more incompetant?  Doesn't matter what excuse comes out, he doesn't look good whatever.

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That FIA statement is incredible.

 

"The circumstances surrounding the use of the Safety Car following the incident of driver Nicholas Latifi, and the related communications between the FIA Race Direction team and the Formula 1 teams, have notably generated significant misunderstanding and reactions from Formula 1 teams, drivers and fans, an argument that is currently tarnishing the image of the Championship and the due celebration of the first Drivers' World Championship title won by Max Verstappen“

 

Silly fans! It’s your fault for misunderstanding what happened. I hope you’re all thoroughly ashamed of yourselves.

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3 minutes ago, jonathanhoey said:

That FIA statement is incredible.

 

"The circumstances surrounding the use of the Safety Car following the incident of driver Nicholas Latifi, and the related communications between the FIA Race Direction team and the Formula 1 teams, have notably generated significant misunderstanding and reactions from Formula 1 teams, drivers and fans, an argument that is currently tarnishing the image of the Championship and the due celebration of the first Drivers' World Championship title won by Max Verstappen“

 

Silly fans! It’s your fault for misunderstanding what happened. I hope you’re all thoroughly ashamed of yourselves.


with every statement I want Mercedes’ to take them to the cleaners and/or withdraw more.

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I do wonder if there's a bit of a divide between the very close broadcast media (eg Crofty, Nicholls/Gow etc), the written press and the online commentators. 

 

Chain Bear and Driver61 for example have both done very straightforward videos saying “Masi got it wrong, ignored the rule book, made up new rules on the spot and it definitely influenced the outcome of the WDC”.

 

Whereas the people closer seem to be much cagier about it, presumably because they don’t want to be seen biting the hand that feeds them.

 

In fact Natalie Pinkham spectacularly failed to read the room in the latest official F1 podcast: "There was controversy, and there has been all season, and it's got everyone talking, and this watercooler effect will go on and on and on, and that's great for the sport."

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12 hours ago, jonathanhoey said:

I do wonder if there's a bit of a divide between the very close broadcast media (eg Crofty, Nicholls/Gow etc), the written press and the online commentators. 

 

Chain Bear and Driver61 for example have both done very straightforward videos saying “Masi got it wrong, ignored the rule book, made up new rules on the spot and it definitely influenced the outcome of the WDC”.

 

Whereas the people closer seem to be much cagier about it, presumably because they don’t want to be seen biting the hand that feeds them.

 

In fact Natalie Pinkham spectacularly failed to read the room in the latest official F1 podcast: "There was controversy, and there has been all season, and it's got everyone talking, and this watercooler effect will go on and on and on, and that's great for the sport."

 

I agree. Lots of people really refusing to call a spade a spade. This wasn't controversy, this was an almighty fuck up with far reaching consequences. 

 

Some people just don't seem to understand what a championship is. These are not knockout rounds, these are not singular events. The Rules for the final lap of race 11 should be the same rules for the final lap of race 22. 

 

If we'd had these rules all season then, fine what comes around goes around. But you can't just introduce new rules for the very final lap of the last race simply because it just so happens that the results of this race might be important. But does anyone really think the same events would have played out if the Championship had been settled in Brazil?

 

And the seeming unwillingness of some respected 'journalists' to really call out the FIA on the rule breaches and/or massive inconsistencies is disappointing. 

 

Plus the illegal decision to let some lapped cars past actually made the final lap worse. Max, on brand new tyres battling past backmarkers to get Hamilton is exciting. Max, on brand new tyres, starting behind Hamilton is just predictable. 

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21 minutes ago, mexos said:

 

Hats off to Jon for saying it and putting it out there.
 

I just hope he doesn’t run into any mysterious accreditation issues come the fist race next year.


To be honest, it’s good to see an accredited member of the F1 press saying it straight for once. F1 media on the whole gives me the impression of being afraid of losing their passes. 

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Even 

21 minutes ago, mexos said:

 

Hats off to Jon for saying it and putting it out there.
 

I just hope he doesn’t run into any mysterious accreditation issues come the fist race next year.

 

I love this zinger from Reddit about their statement

 

Quote

 

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FIA’s primary responsibly at any event is to ensure the safety

Oh cool, so not all events

 

 

None of the F1 media are seriously criticising the FIA. Even Jolyon Palmer whose videos I have enjoyed this season completely ignores the controversy and even has the gall to describe the last lap as "The one lap showdown was incredible to see" as if it was even a contest. 

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