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Formula One 2021 - DRAMA - #Michael Messy


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5 minutes ago, Sidewaysbob said:

 

Hmmm. I'm pretty sure that no result has ever been overturned as a result of going to the courts. The FIA just say, "We make the rules and all rules are at the discretion of the race director. We can make and interpit them anyway we like".

 

The FIA never lose 

 

😐


The result of Brazil 2003 was changed after it was taken to the FIA court

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Brazilian_Grand_Prix#Post-race

 

Quote

 

After he flew to London from Brazil on the morning of 8 April, Whiting launched an internal investigation into the result of the race because FIA officials were unhappy at the timesheets provided to the governing body by Formula One's timekeepers TAG Heuer.[84] He was concerned about a possible timekeeping error and asked representatives from TAG Heuer and the three race stewards for the Brazilian Grand Prix,[84] to attend a meeting at the FIA headquarters in Paris on the morning of 11 April as part of compliance with Article 179 (b) of the International Sporting Code.[77]

Oral arguments and timing evidence were presented to a Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile (FIA) court in Paris, which, on 11 April, awarded victory to Fisichella.[76] McLaren declined to file an appeal. This was Fisichella's first Formula One win. It was the last Grand Prix win for a car with a Ford engine and for Jordan as a constructor. An unofficial ceremony was held during the next race weekend at Imola, where Räikkönen and Ron Dennis handed over the winning driver's and constructor's trophies to Fisichella and Eddie Jordan.[85] The Jordan team's pseudo-successor Racing Point would take another victory over seventeen years later at the 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix.[86][87]

 


This was a timing screwup however and done at the behest of the Race Director which is unlikely I’m this case.

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1 hour ago, sixbuttons said:


... ooooo...

 

... oooooooo...

 

(don't remind Mexos of the time @Moodmon and I did that in the rllmuk championships to tear 8 sacks of shit out of each other in the battle for Maximum Gary Trophy...)


I particularly enjoyed one race at Silverstone when I watched you both swapping fastest lap whilst I circled in the lead until I decided to troll you both by going Full Rich mix on the last lap and grabbed the fastest lap for myself :sherlock:

 

Really good to see you back around here dude :hat:

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4 minutes ago, footle said:


except we didn’t: because it wasn’t the race that had been set up with two cars playing with one car on ancient tires and another on reasonably ancient tires. But one car on ancient tires and the other on brand new softs.

 

it wasn’t ever happening organically.

By organically I mean without the rule changes.

 

As has been discussed, Mercedes didn't bring Hamilton in, they chose that strategy, Red Bull countered, with the safety car out there were legal options, bring leave the safety car out and finish under yellow flags, it's happened many, many times before but with the current lot running the show and the hype surrounding this race it wasn't likely to happen. This way, Lewis wins.

 

Another way would be to let all the cars unlap themselves, but there wasn't time to do this once the track was clear, this would also have been a Hamilton win.

 

The other way, from how I see it and from how some others in here see it (but not all), the option is there to have the safety car come in but not let the rest of the field unlap themselves, this is allowed within the laws of the sport. The advantage would have been with Hamilton, sure, he had track position and there were five cars all between him and Verstappen, 2 of which, iirc (though I'll admit I'm not 100% on this), were Alpha Tauri's it wouldn't have been impossible for him to catch and pass Hamilton.

 

We'd have at least had a fight

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Let a black man who made half the grid take a knee, ask about representation in the sport, talk about carbon footprints and embarrassed three King Arabs in a row with his rainbow helmet become the  greatest ever? Never going to happen was it. 
 

Stopped liking F1 for 20 years because of this kind of moral dubiousness. Won’t be back next year unless there are real consequences to that rubber banding shitshow.

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How much fuel per lap under safety car do we reckon an F1 car saves? If they keep the same limit of fuel in the cars, rather than making them bigger and heavier (which the 2022 regulations are partially designed to address, I think) would it be possible for a "for every X laps under a safety car, we add y laps onto the overall number of laps for the race to reach completion"?

 

I suppose the bigger issue there is the time limit imposed on overall race length (though they've managed to manipulate that in the past) and it also being open to manipulation to provide drama.

 

It's all a fucking great big mess.

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I saw the 'it's been manipulated, man' clip on a Lewis twitter fan page yesterday, I didn't find it surprising. Does make you think what he was thinking when Verstappen ended up by his side in an instant. I'd wonder whether he'd be motivated to do it all again next season or just pack it in, or whether he'd press Mercedes and them to get all the teams to press for more concrete rules next season? 

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The way Lewis handled himself and spoke after that shambles of a race was exemplary. 

My reaction was worse and I wasn’t even all that invested. 
 

I really hope he goes again next year though, be a damn shame if he left after that. 

 

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18 hours ago, kiroquai said:

Quite a controversial and divisive incident, this one. Instead, let's look at something we can all enjoy:

 

10dd5cf41022e73c2e66a55432b09bce.jpg

 

A picture of Olivier Grouillard in the 1989 Ligier JS33 Ford.

 

Interesting fact: Olivier Grouillard is @Meers' 17th favourite Formula One driver of all-time, just behind Jan Lammers.

 

Wtf?! 🤣

 

TIL that I've a list of favourite F1 drivers.

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2 hours ago, Sidewaysbob said:

There's a theory that Perez pulled up early because the car had been short fueled, to give it a chance to get past Hamilton. 

The engine was all fine and dandy. Except, it was about to run out of fuel. 

They could still win the constructors. It would be daft of them to give it up before the race started by short fuelling him?

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10 minutes ago, Meers said:

 

Wtf?! 🤣

 

TIL that I've a list of favourite F1 drivers.

 

Yes, and here it is!

 

Spoiler

1: Carol Godin de Beaufort

2: Ben Pon

3: Gijs van Lennep

4: Ben Pon (again)

5: Roelof Wunderink

6: Michael Bleekemolen

7: Jan Lammers in the 1980's

8: Jos Verstappen when racing for Arrows

9: Yves Giraud Cabantous

10: Jos Verstappen when racing for Benetton

11: Arthur Legat

12: Yuji Ide

13: Thierry Boutsen

14: Max Verstappen

15: Max Verstappen's Mum

16: Jan Lammers in the 1990's

17: Olivier Grouillard

18: Ricardo Londono-Bridge

19: Huub Rothengatter

20: A Windmill 

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So, any predictions for what Mercedes are planning to do? 

 

I think there are a couple of plausible options. They could, on a matter of principle, appeal it as far as they can. I don't really think the result will change but they may want to make the FIA squirm under some serious scrutiny about what exactly happened in those last few laps. 

 

Alternatively, I think they could reach a private agreement with the FIA. Something along the lines of that they will not contest the race/season result but that they want a public apology for the 'mistakes' that took place in the last race, that Masi is gone and perhaps they are not obliged to attend the FIA's Gala event on Thursday. I get the feeling they will want something in return for not pursuing what looks to be, at the very least, a very embarrassing case for the FIA to defend and a public apology that the rules were not followed might suit them. 

 

Any other predictions? They could just abandon the appeal but I think they will want something in return, perhaps most likely Masi's head. I don't really see how Masi can be there next year, both with his decisions this year but also with his patronising comments about it just being a motor race when faced with a correct claim that he was not following the rules. BBC also thinks he is not long for this world - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59643988

 

I also think, and it could be a combination of the above, that things could get ugly and embarrassing when Mercedes do open up for comments and interviews. It hasn't taken us much creativity to see how 'well, the race director ultimately makes the final decision and can ignore the rules' is ridiculous as a general concept. What happens when Mercedes publicly asks if Masi now has the authority to start a race after two lights and not five lights? 

 

The decisions taken in the final race and, assuming the FIA ultimately defends the decisions, open up a very large can of works for all future races which will now basically be run under this set of rules, unless we decide on the day to run under some brand new rules. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, ryodi said:

Wheel rim covers continue to look awful in the new regulations.

 

 


Got to say I disagree, to me they make the silly new tyres look far better. Remember without the covers this is what you’d get:

 

image.jpeg.a93c3dab7c2b753223be2d4c2ba0aabc.jpeg
 

To me that looks bloody awful. It’s Range Rover Sport territory.

 

 

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29 minutes ago, McCoy said:

So, any predictions for what Mercedes are planning to do? 


The heat has died down. They will have moved through anger and hurt phases to some sort of acceptance even though it’s not right. They will just want to move on.
 

I think they will withdraw the appeal. Better to use that energy positively. 

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Looks way better than the insanely ugly wheel covers, imo. 

Can't see Merc taking this any further as article 5.13 or whatever it was stating that the race director can do whatever the fuck he wants with the safety car pretty much has it covered. I can't see that they can, or would even want to, have any influence on whether Masi remains in post. 

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9 minutes ago, Blue said:

Looks way better than the insanely ugly wheel covers, imo. 

Can't see Merc taking this any further as article 5.13 or whatever it was stating that the race director can do whatever the fuck he wants with the safety car pretty much has it covered. I can't see that they can, or would even want to, have any influence on whether Masi remains in post. 

 

Perhaps. A pod cast I was listening to suggests that it is not unusual for a team in situation to 'get' something from the FIA in return for not pursuing an appeal. 

 

Given that they do have a decent case and the possible embarrassment to the FIA and the sport I can see Mercedes wanting something in return for dropping the appeal. 

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5 minutes ago, Blue said:

Looks way better than the insanely ugly wheel covers, imo. 

Can't see Merc taking this any further as article 5.13 or whatever it was stating that the race director can do whatever the fuck he wants with the safety car pretty much has it covered. I can't see that they can, or would even want to, have any influence on whether Masi remains in post. 

 

Not indiviually, but Red bull were *still* moaning in post-championship interviews about calls earlier in the season. It's about the only thing that a lare portion of the grid will agree on. The guy in that role has to command the respect of the competitors and it's clear Masi's lost it (if, indeed, he ever had it in the first place).

 

So I suspect the likely outcome is some sort of backroom deal to partially placate mercedes and allow all the organisations involved to save some face. Whether that's openly defenestrating masi, or giving him some extra "support" (after which he can quietly move on after another season so it doesn;t look like he's been sacked) or something else.

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42 minutes ago, McCoy said:

So, any predictions for what Mercedes are planning to do? 

 

A lot of people think there's some sort of legal avenue but I don't think there is a judge or a court or anything like that. The "court" is just the FIA.

 

I think it's all about money at the end of the day. I think Ferrari have got stuff by threatening to leave the sport before?

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14 hours ago, footle said:


except we didn’t: because it wasn’t the race that had been set up with two cars playing with one car on ancient tires and another on reasonably ancient tires. But one car on ancient tires and the other on brand new softs.

 

it wasn’t ever happening organically.

 

That is organically, at least in the age of safety cars, one of the risks you take being in front is exactly that happening, it's just racing.

 

13 hours ago, wev said:

How much fuel per lap under safety car do we reckon an F1 car saves?

 

Very, VERY roughly, they use half as much fuel behind the SC. 

 

 

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