Jump to content
IGNORED

Formula One 2021 - DRAMA - #Michael Messy


T Pot
 Share

Recommended Posts

Max was fully deserving of the WDC as was Lewis. But I'd rather they'd have come together to be honest and not let the race director influence the outcome by giving Max the Mario Kart equivalent of a blue shell and making the race a 1v1 over 1 lap. Really was the equivalent of next goal wins when the other side are 10-0 up and the losing side bring on a host of World Class players.

 

Max was second best yesterday. He knew it, Red Bull knew it. Thanking Latifi was classless from Horner to be honest considering the lad is likely to get an absolute kicking online now. It made me think, probably not a smart observation, but what would stop that happening in the future? For example, a Championship rival deliberately having their other driver trashing the car or for it to develop a 'problem' in order to force a SC to close up the gap? Do the FIA investigate car issues at all or do they take it at face value?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, ryodi said:


I wonder why that didn’t make the broadcast yet Horner asking for one more lap and getting it did. It makes he actions after he got out of the car even more commendable, I’d have stormed off like Max did in Qatar.

There's a video of Ham/Bono's radio from after the safety car came out. Pretty certain he said engineered rather than manipulated, but same difference. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, jonamok said:

If Lewis and Max had have made any kind of outcome-impacting contact in that final scene, sorry, on that last lap, I would stake my internal organs on it being adjudged Ham’s fault and Max wins anyway.

 

I talked about FIA bias/stitch-ups after other events this year, and got told off for silly conspiracy-mongering. Sucks to be proven right.

There wasn't any conspiracy/bias/stitch-up.

 

All the decisions that were controversial, be it related to wings, what defines a legal overtake, what defines driving into an opponent, backing drivings up in an unsafe manner or whether a race should have run or not (ie spa where the argument seemed to be "well the drivers want to race, so we let them" yeah and my kids wanted to eat an entire birthday cake yesterday, doesn't mean I fucking let them do it...), were all down to a race director being out of his depth and allowing the competitors to run the sport, not some grand conspiracy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Meers said:

We need a new rule in F1:

 

I case of SC in the last 10% of the race, the lap count will be frozen OR extra laps will be added (the amount that was needed during SC).

They'd need to reintroduce refuelling for that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, McCoy said:

He was clearly absolutely flustered and likely out of his depth but in those situations surely the voice in the back of your head is just to do everything as per protocol.

I genuinely think Masi has shown signs of extreme stress and inability to cope over the past few months. I think it might have been after the Silverstone incident where he was visibly shaking and twitching during an interview. I don't think his mental health is in a good place at all and I feel sorry for him in that regard, but he needs to see that himself, or be advised of it and step down. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, McCoy said:

The weird thing is that I don't think Masi deliberately wanted Max to win but I just don't understand why, in the biggest sporting event of the year for F1, he threw out the rules and precedent and decided this was the best solution was to do something clearly controversial. 

 

You kinda expect in the big events, world cup finals etc. that the referee will be so aware of not getting anything wrong that they will follow the rules to the absolute letter - after all, they don't care who wins they just want to ensure that they don't fuck up. It's weird Masi didn't have those same survival instincts. He was clearly absolutely flustered and likely out of his depth but in those situations surely the voice in the back of your head is just to do everything as per protocol. Now is not the time to invent a wheeze for any particular reason. 

 

There are so many comparisons to make but it is akin to in a Champions League final the referee deciding that the penalty spot should be moved closer to the goal because it is a good idea in the context of the single specific game being played out. 

 

Ironically, I am sure Masi has woken up today thinking what on earth has he done because there is really no way to justify the decision he took yesterday. Even the FIA can only basically come up with the line, well he can basically do what he wants. No one can actually defend the specific decision he took yesterday, and in the cold light of day I am sure even he is perplexed at exactly why he made the decision he made. 


Seems like he tried to imagine every possibly complaint Horner could make about it being unfair to Max and acted as necessary to negate them all, completely forgetting to consider what was fair to Hamilton in the process.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Blue said:

I genuinely think Masi has shown signs of extreme stress and inability to cope over the past few months. I think it might have been after the Silverstone incident where he was visibly shaking and twitching during an interview. I don't think his mental health is in a good place at all and I feel sorry for him in that regard, but he needs to see that himself, or be advised of it and step down. 

 

I don't think he will be back next year. The only thing that might keep him in his job is if the FIA thinks that him falling on his sword is too much an admission that the decision was actually fucked up. 

 

I can't see how the teams can work with or respect a person who has got such a big decision so completely wrong. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, MrPogo said:


Seems like he tried to imagine every possibly complaint Horner could make about it being unfair to Max and acted as necessary to negate them all, completely forgetting to consider what was fair to Hamilton in the process.

 

And indeed to cars such as Sainz (third place but blocked by a load of lapped cars) and Riccardo (no ability to gain places on the final lap since the car in front of his was allowed to uplap themselves and he was not). 

 

F1 works as a whole. As we saw a Williams car turned the race on its head - that is how it goes sometimes. I think as soon as you manipulative the racing just to focus on the first two cars the whole package falls apart. Has Sainz being behind Max he might have made a move, maybe whilst Max and Hamilton are fighting Sainz joins in three abreast and all three take themselves out and we're celebrating Tsonodo's maiden win. 

 

The point is that every race up to now has been run with the principle that any car can win and that all cars are treated the same in terms of the sporting regulations. Yesterday that was changed to the the race being run to accommodate the battle between the top two cars and nothing else matters. That's not F1, if it was we'd not have 18 other cars on track. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Woke up still uneasy with yesterday, it's an uncomfortable feeling. Such an injustice to dominate the title decider all race to it literally being taken away from him because Masi wanted to.

 

If I'm struggling to come to terms with it then god knows how Lewis is feeling. I feel so bad for him. The way he behaved afterwards just shows what a decent guy he is, 100% Max would have been in a huge strop if roles were reversed.

 

 

There is small consolation in that everyone knows that on that final race performance, it was Lewis that should have been crowned Champion that day. It's definitely going to be a mind worm in Max's head that he was gifted the final race and therefore the title. People will always say or think it when talking about his first world title. 

No one would have complained if Max won the race fair and square.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The biggest injustice is that Lewis Hamilton has been dropped from the BBC's Sports Personality of the Year because he "lost" that final race.

 

I'm no fan of his but in my eyes he should have been a candidate for how he ran that race and his post-race reaction.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, davidcotton said:

Anyone know anything about how the other teams feel about how it went down yet?  Obviously we’ve had the drivers congratulate Max. 

 

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/f1-drivers-left-confused-by-made-for-tv-safety-car-unlapping-call/6880631/

 

Quote

Formula 1 drivers have admitted they were confused by the "weird" and "made for TV" unlapping procedure during the late safety car in the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix.

 

3 minutes ago, Pug said:

Woke up still uneasy with yesterday, it's an uncomfortable feeling. Such an injustice to dominate the title decider all race to it literally being taken away from him because Masi wanted to.

 

If I'm struggling to come to terms with it then god knows how Lewis is feeling. I feel so bad for him. The way he behaved afterwards just shows what a decent guy he is, 100% Max would have been in a huge strop if roles were reversed.

 

 

There is small consolation in that everyone knows that on that final race performance, it was Lewis that should have been crowned Champion that day. It's definitely going to be a mind worm in Max's head that he was gifted the final race and therefore the title. People will always say or think it when talking about his first world title. 

No one would have complained if Max won the race fair and square.

 

 

Is Hamilton back next year? Admittedly he was five minutes out of the car with all the emotion running through him but certainly was cagey with JB when asked to comment on next year. Basically wait and see. 

 

Is he successfully enough and rich enough (answer, yes) to just say fuck off to F1 and go off into the sunset to his many other business interests? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, McCoy said:

 

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/f1-drivers-left-confused-by-made-for-tv-safety-car-unlapping-call/6880631/

 

 

 

Is Hamilton back next year? Admittedly he was five minutes out of the car with all the emotion running through him but certainly was cagey with JB when asked to comment on next year. Basically wait and see. 

 

Is he successfully enough and rich enough (answer, yes) to just say fuck off to F1 and go off into the sunset to his many other business interests? 


He was probably fighting the urge to quit on the spot in the face of the injustice, but surely wouldn’t have signed a three year deal unless he was planning to continue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, McCoy said:

Is Hamilton back next year? Admittedly he was five minutes out of the car with all the emotion running through him but certainly was cagey with JB when asked to comment on next year. Basically wait and see. 

 

Next year's quite hard to predict with the new regs too though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Blue said:

I'm struggling to see any justification for the principals to be able to speak to the race director unless asked to do so by the director. In general it should be the race director telling the teams how it is going to be, with no discussion on the matter. 

Although that does require a race director who can be trusted. 

 

This is the root of it all I think. Not only are the teams able to talk to (i.e. lobby) the director during the race, they can do so whenever they want (rather than only speaking when spoken to) and then the people in charge of the TV feed deem many of these conversations broadcast worthy. It's like they looked at one of the worst aspects of modern football (players crowding round and arguing with the ref) and thought "that's what we need in F1! But we'll mike them all up too! Audiences will love that!"

 

It epitomises the emphasis on TV drama over sport.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Autosport hit a few nails on the head:

 

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/why-masis-latest-marginal-call-has-left-f1-with-a-sour-taste/6880875/

 

Quote

While the decision-making process of the F1 race director should be completely independent of consideration for the fortunes of individual competitors – as they should all be treated equally – what does not sit easy with a lot of people is the way that the rulebook appears to have been overruled to make things happen.

This was not a case of procedure being followed to the letter, and Hamilton and Mercedes simply being unlucky with how things turned out. Instead, things seem to have been out of the ordinary.

 

Quote

This interpretation of certain regulations overruling others – and of the race director having complete free reign over the safety car and other aspects of the race weekend – could set an alarming precedent for the future.

Article 15.3 gives him control over the starting procedure, for example. So does this now mean, in an extreme case, he could start the race when only three lights are shown, and not after the five that separate rules dictate?

 

I honestly thought, well, slightly thought that the Stewards may have just given Max a 5 second penalty for the safety car 'overtake' which would have spared the FIA's blushes over the completely botched safety car restart. 

 

Because, as we are now seeing, if the Race Director has total control then anything is possible in the future. 

 

After all, if it is a 'Motor Race' then why wait an eternity for five lights. Let's get things going quickly on two lights and just see who is quickest to react to this brand new set of events. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

49 minutes ago, Blue said:

I genuinely think Masi has shown signs of extreme stress and inability to cope over the past few months. I think it might have been after the Silverstone incident where he was visibly shaking and twitching during an interview. I don't think his mental health is in a good place at all and I feel sorry for him in that regard, but he needs to see that himself, or be advised of it and step down. 

 

3txaUp.gif

"Hey man, I can handle it!"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, smithstock said:

How can someone be ahead for the best part of 57 laps, have several cars and 11 seconds worth of daylight from second place, and then lose the race on the final lap due to, what I would describe as, malicious incompetence by those who are intended to be the F1 regulators?

 

 

Yeah, that is how I saw it and as even more of an outsider than yourself as I've not watched the netflix thing.

 

I still have no idea why (some of) the lapped cars have to unlap themselves after an incident, even more so after someone upthread pointed out that, following his safety car pitstop, Verstappen actually ended up behind a further two back markers both of whom had to move aside for him due to actual rules. Running order rather than race order surely seems fairer as this all seems heavily stacked to favour the cars behind first place despite them being nowhere near the leader for, in this case, pretty much the whole race. Were there back markers behind Verstappen and the fella who was in actual third place who didn't have to move and thus deny that car a chance at racing Verstappen? I'm also a little surprised that some of the teams that were not allowed to unlap themselves as they were behind Verstappen have not registered complaints but assume they figured they would not be gaining any places so were happy to let it slide. 

 

It is some sport in which a third party's negligence sees a race win and world championship denied through actual rules and what appears to be a race director fixing a race for the sake of entertainment. Either way, seeing this race for free on C4 does not encourage me to ever want to pay for it.

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Many fans of the global entertainment platform Formula One this morning are looking to the lyrical genius of Britney Spears for articulation of their relationship towards it this morning:

 

Quote

I'm addicted to you
Don't you know that you're toxic?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Bleeders said:

It made me think, probably not a smart observation, but what would stop that happening in the future? For example, a Championship rival deliberately having their other driver trashing the car or for it to develop a 'problem' in order to force a SC to close up the gap? Do the FIA investigate car issues at all or do they take it at face value?

 

We've had this before. Not for a championship, but for a race win - Renault in 2008. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Use of this website is subject to our Privacy Policy, Terms of Use, and Guidelines.