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Formula One 2021 - DRAMA - #Michael Messy


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5 minutes ago, Mike S said:

 

 

 

I am talking about their physical position on the track though.

 

That is what is being shifted and it, to an outsider, seems unreasonable as it removes any chance of the second running car suffering any slowdown at all when lapping them (I know they have to move over but it must still be a potential hassle) which may well have been the case for the car ahead but it also allows, in this case, the second place car to remove an 11 second deficit and that seems like a pretty shitty a rule. Given how many of them kept saying that they wanted the drivers to race it seems a series of situations/rules that removes an element of racing and boosts a driver who was behind.

That's how full safety cars work. They allow the field to bunch up, which does indeed disadvantage the car at the front, but all drivers have won out and lost out to this. Virtual safety cars, where everyone maintains the same distance to the car in front were introduced to alleviate this situation but when track conditions dictate, a full safety car is required. No-one would argue that this was one such situation.

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The whole thing leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

 

If Masi wanted to not end under the safety car then he should have red flagged instantly and then done a a standing restart with 3 or 4 laps to go. It wouldn’t have been the mess that is now.

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1 minute ago, SeanR said:

Did we have this yet?

 

 


I think that’s a bit shitty. Max didn’t fuck about and change the rules as he saw fit.

 

This is 100% on the FIA & Michael Masi. They’ve made some really shitty calls all year “for the show”. Masi has seemed totally out of his depth and arrogant this year. He needs to be replaced.

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Not watched F1 for years but got caught up in the hype and decided to watch this one. Really enjoyable race overall, had moments of overtaking and two drivers who were just on another level when it came to pace.

 

However, that ending is a farce and ruined my overall viewing of the race. There's no way that should have played out like that, I imagine lots of people were watching who don't normally judging by my social feeds being full of comments and they've really showed themselves up. I mean how can you have Team Principle's in the Race Directors ear while he's trying to make decisions. The cynic in thinks it totally rigged when you hear Red Bull asking for "all we need is one lap" and getting it. 

 

Not sure who Lewis kept his cool either in the interviews.

 

Total farce. 

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5 minutes ago, Mike S said:

 

To stop them changing their tyres when everyone is crawling around?

 

 

 

Yep, pit lane is closed initially during an incident unless your car is part of that incident and needs repair. Pit lane then opens when Eduardo says so.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Blue said:

That's how full safety cars work. They allow the field to bunch up, which does indeed disadvantage the car at the front, but all drivers have won out and lost out to this. Virtual safety cars, where everyone maintains the same distance to the car in front were introduced to alleviate this situation but when track conditions dictate, a full safety car is required. No-one would argue that this was one such situation.

 

 

Oh yeah, I can see how it would balance out over the course of a season but it still seems a distinctly shite way to run a race.

 

The field bunching to remove the advantages all cars have over the car behind is one thing but why do they also remove the lapped cars from the running order? Is it a safety thing?

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1 hour ago, humdrum said:

From someone who is a fairly casual F1 watcher, follower and fan, It seems clear that they wanted to cash in on the hype around how close the title race was going into the last race of the season and didn't want it to end under a safety car for all the "new fans".

 

 

 

But that's the thing, there was an absolutely legal way for it to end not under the safety car and they ignored it.

 

1 hour ago, footle said:


it’s only Max/red bull fans. Twelve seconds down, five laps to go, having pulled back two second over the previous fifteen. outfought.

 

Or Lewis stans at the Denial stage.

 

You don't take a result off someone for following race direction, doesn't happen, will never happen.

 

Someone brought up that Canada race, that's a prime example of exactly that, the race ended early because the chequered flag ends the race. Race direction were wrong but the result stood to their decisions.

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5 minutes ago, marsh said:

 

Yep, pit lane is closed initially during an incident unless your car is part of that incident and needs repair. Pit lane then opens when Eduardo says so.

 

 

 

That seems sensible as it would at least ensure that all cars are running in the same state after an incident as they were before. 

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Just now, Dudley said:

You don't take a result off someone for following race direction, doesn't happen, will never happen


Sure.

But then race direction isn’t normally: one lap to go, who will win the championship with no recourse?

 

if max had even been in the race up until that point; I suspect people might feel differently. As it was, he was massively outclassed until Masi intervened.

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7 minutes ago, marsh said:

 

Yep, pit lane is closed initially during an incident unless your car is part of that incident and needs repair. Pit lane then opens when Eduardo says so.

 

 

 

Yeah, for instance you CAN make a fuel stop when the pits is closed, but you can only put a small amount in, essentially an amount designed to safely get you to the point real stops can be made.

13 minutes ago, Blue said:

That's how full safety cars work. They allow the field to bunch up, which does indeed disadvantage the car at the front, but all drivers have won out and lost out to this. Virtual safety cars, where everyone maintains the same distance to the car in front were introduced to alleviate this situation but when track conditions dictate, a full safety car is required. No-one would argue that this was one such situation.

 

And I'll say it yet again, they could and should fix it so a real safety car ends with them being waved off, possibly out of the pits with the time gaps preserved. 

 

Which, incidentally WAS the case when physical safety cars were first invented.

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Just now, footle said:


Sure.

But then race direction isn’t normally: one lap to go, who will win the championship with no recourse?

 

if max had even been in the race up until that point; I suspect people might feel differently. As it was, he was massively outclassed until Masi intervened.

 

Doesn't matter.  You really, REALLY don't want to set a precedent for ignoring race control. They tell you to do something, you DO it, there might, MIGHT have been a reason.

 

But imagine in that Canada race if they chequered flag have waved and Max went "Nah mate" and tried to do 2 full speed laps while the spectators were being let onto the track to watch the podium.

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1 minute ago, PaB said:

It all moot . If normal procedure had been followed then Lewis wins the race and the championship. If you decide not to let cars I lap themselves max doesn’t catch Lewis . If you let all cars Unlap themselves then you don’t have a final racing lap.
The only way max wins is if the FIA make up some new rule on the spot. Which is exactly what happened. 


it absolutely stinks . Hamilton has been robbed. 

I both agree and disagree. Masi's mistake, as it has been all year was in being too slow to make a decision. If he had decided right away to let all cars unlap themselves, as is normally the case, then we probably would have had the same result. In delaying that decision, I can actually see why he decided to compromise and allow the championship contenders to fight it out by allowing only those cars interfering to go past. It was quite ridiculous that he wasted time in not allowing all cars past so I think he was trying to make up for that mistake. Lewis was very unfortunate to be on old tyres and max on new ones, but that's not Masi's fault nor something he can take into consideration. Of course, if he had allowed all cars through, having delayed the decision, the race would have ended under the safety car, which wouldn't have been very satisfactory either, but I'm not saying he shouldn't have. Lewis was robbed, but more by the safety car than by Masi.

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Hamilton has been absolutely robbed. No question for me.  But there's no way of reversing it that isn't at least as wrong and/or has ongoing effects you really don't want.

 

The thing is I fundamentally disagree with is those cars were "Interfering".  Lewis had to pass them, Max should have had to pass them. And the rules would have allowed that to be so.

 

Whereas the nearest to a rule allowing what actually happened is a bad reading of a procedure designed to let the SC come out, THEN pick up the leader or the "I am god" clause.

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I'm of the opinion the result had to stand, regardless of whether its deserved or not, but its absolute bullshit that rules can be changed and ammended as often as they have been this season. It's not even been consistently in favour of one team over the other, its just been an utter fucking shit show, and for all the pundits and journalists crying "best season ever" etc, I've found it embarassing, my Dad gave up on the sport a long long time ago (probably when Schumacher won at Silverstone in the pits) but he'll often ask me whats been going on and I've tried to explain events to him this season and the consensus between us is that its been utterly ridiculous and that really its been the Wolff, Horner and Masi show rather than the two drivers who were taking every single tenth of a second out of each other no matter what. Those two fighting has been fucking amazing, though I'm of the opinion that Max has to be reigned in somewhat, people going on about him being young etc but he's not a "raw" talent any more, he's been on the grid a number of years, at the pointy end, sort of, for the majority of that too, but Lewis has proven all of those people saying "he cant race" wrong, because he's fought for everything this season, he's had to and he's not had a team mate pulling his weight like Schumacher had either.

 

I hope Liberty and the FIA are pleased with their show though, Horners a fucking amazing panto villain, I hope we see Max bin his dad now that he's achieved his dads dream, I'm surprised that Horner didnt do a John Terry on the podium by donning some race overalls and boots and nicking Max's fizzy rose water. Netflix are going to need two seasons of DTS to cover this one, one for the past few months and then a American Crime Story style show with David Schwimmer as Toto, Matthew Perry as Horner and M Night Shymalan as Michael Masi

 

I really, really hope though that they look at the bigger picture, sort out the rule book and get someone in who can enforce it rather than kowtowing to the demands of the team principals.

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You know, I thought that Schumacher thing was the exact kind of genius that should be rewarded.

 

Then never let happen again.

 

See also the last round of Formula E this year.

 

But this is, as you point out, very different to that.

 

Quote

Lewis has proven all of those people saying "he cant race" wrong, because he's fought for everything this season

 

Although his "Help me daddy FIA, Perez is daring to race me" thing did not help that case.

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19 minutes ago, Trigg said:

Not watched F1 for years but got caught up in the hype and decided to watch this one. Really enjoyable race overall, had moments of overtaking and two drivers who were just on another level when it came to pace.

 

However, that ending is a farce and ruined my overall viewing of the race. There's no way that should have played out like that, I imagine lots of people were watching who don't normally judging by my social feeds being full of comments and they've really showed themselves up. I mean how can you have Team Principle's in the Race Directors ear while he's trying to make decisions. The cynic in thinks it totally rigged when you hear Red Bull asking for "all we need is one lap" and getting it. 

 

Not sure who Lewis kept his cool either in the interviews.

 

Total farce. 

 

Same thing here - I used to love F1 but quit watching it when Schumacher was allowed to take out Hill to win the title. It's not a sport when you allow that to happen.

 

This race was fantastic until Verstappen pitted on the safety car. The second he came out it was clear he had won. The only thing I don't understand - why didn't Mercedes pit Hamilton? His tyres were ancient, and didn't he have a new set of slicks ready to go?

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Just now, Dudley said:

You know, I thought that Schumacher thing was the exact kind of genius that should be rewarded.

 

Then never let happen again.

 

See also the last round of Formula E this year.

 

But this is, as you point out, very different to that.

 

Yeah the Schumacher thing was definietly "well the rules dont say we cant do this", so then when it happens you change the results to allow/prevent it in fututre, this though is very much Michael Masi going "but wait! theres more! You know how Lewis put Max in THE HOSPITAL!? Well it turns out that Max did actually DIE and now hes come back to stop Lewis becoming an 8 times World Champion"

 

When I saw Latifi had been battling with Mick before his talent ran out and that it wasnt a coming together with Schumacher you could basically hear Masi going "NO NO NO THINK OF THE NETFLIX CONTRACT!"

 

I'm fucking on it tonight, Liberty should hire me

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1 minute ago, Ryan said:

 

Same thing here - I used to love F1 but quit watching it when Schumacher was allowed to take out Hill to win the title. It's not a sport when you allow that to happen.

 

This race was fantastic until Verstappen pitted on the safety car. The second he came out it was clear he had won. The only thing I don't understand - why didn't Mercedes pit Hamilton? His tyres were ancient, and didn't he have a new set of slicks ready to go?

 

Because if he'd pitted immediately, Max wouldn't have. Imagine if he pitted, Max didn't, and it ended under that SC.

 

And if he pitted after Max he'd be behind him.

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1 minute ago, mexos said:

Nothing will change. Masi will still be in charge next year. To get rid of him is to accept his fuck ups. They will never do that.

I have no doubt whatsoever that there will be major changes for next year. Track limits will be the white line for all tracks, the rules of overtaking will be clarified. There will be no communication between team principles and race director, except in one direction etc etc. Whether Masi will be there or not I don't know but he'll be working under more strict guidlines if he is.

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13 hours ago, Blue said:

I both agree and disagree. Masi's mistake, as it has been all year was in being too slow to make a decision. If he had decided right away to let all cars unlap themselves, as is normally the case, then we probably would have had the same result. In delaying that decision, I can actually see why he decided to compromise and allow the championship contenders to fight it out by allowing only those cars interfering to go past. It was quite ridiculous that he wasted time in not allowing all cars past so I think he was trying to make up for that mistake. Lewis was very unfortunate to be on old tyres and max on new ones, but that's not Masi's fault nor something he can take into consideration. Of course, if he had allowed all cars through, having delayed the decision, the race would have ended under the safety car, which wouldn't have been very satisfactory either, but I'm not saying he shouldn't have. Lewis was robbed, but more by the safety car than by Masi.

 

They couldn't let the lapped cars through until the track was clear.  That's the rule.  The track wasn't clear until the point at which they let some of them through.  There was no option to let them through any earlier.  

 

Masi made a decision to disregard the rules in favour of artificially creating a spectacle.  Hamilton was absolutely, clearly, and obviously robbed by Masi.  I know you're a Verstappen fan and are entitled to celebrate his world championship*, but to try to argue that it was just bad luck that screwed Hamilton is absurd.

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1 minute ago, feltmonkey said:

 

They couldn't let the lapped cars through until the track was clear.  That's the rule.  The track wasn't clear until the point at which they let [i]some[/i] of them through.  There was no option to let them through any earlier.  

 

Masi made a decision to disregard the rules in favour of artificially creating a spectacle.  Hamilton was absolutely, clearly, and obviously robbed by Masi.  I know you're a Verstappen fan and are entitled to celebrate his world championship*, but to try to argue that it was just bad luck that screwed Hamilton is absurd.

You don't know anything about me. :)

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The ironic thing is that on the track Hamilton was a class above Verstappen today. The start and the way he made those hard tyres last the distance with Max unable to eat into that 12-14 second gap on much fresher tyres was truly brilliant. 

 

Such a shame to see the record breaking title took away over an absolutely farcical and unprecedented decision to meddle in the usual safety car procedure.

 

What grace and character in the most unjust of defeats though. If Verstappen was in Hamilton's position today there's no way he has the grace to be congratulating the winner or even doing the podium. 

 

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Track limits to me is possibly the single easiest thing they make the hardest.

 

White line, kerb, turns 1,2, no 1,3,5,6 no 1,9,12, no all of them....

 

All turns. Always.  And make 1 decision on the first thing for the whole season. Done.  Blow it before the race, lap goes.  Blow it during the race, 3 strikes and a drive through if not battling actively, swap the position if they are.  Test it using one of the 8 million electronic means for doing so. No appeals.

 

Obviously if there's a case for being forced off that gets looked at as normal but then it's not really a "Track limits" discussion.

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4 minutes ago, Blue said:

I have no doubt whatsoever that there will be major changes for next year. Track limits will be the white line for all tracks, the rules of overtaking will be clarified. There will be no communication between team principles and race director, except in one direction etc etc. Whether Masi will be there or not I don't know but he'll be working under more strict guidlines if he is.


The problem with everything you wrote is that it makes sense. 
 

 

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