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Formula One 2021 - DRAMA - #Michael Messy


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7 hours ago, Loik V credern said:

 

really?? yeah just saw this. 

 

Did you not see Brazil? Assuming they think you can pass here now then from 6th on the grid if they make that change before qualifying he's going to stroll it.

 

The risk though is that a new engine is actually slightly more likely to break than a race tested but in life engine.  And that regardless of speed, to make that plan work he DOES probably have to pass both Red Bulls.

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29 minutes ago, MrPogo said:

Seems like the only sensible PR move, although from what I understood (which was literally one post from someone somewhere) Kingspan products made up about 10% of the cladding and were being used in a manner they weren’t designed for having been purchased from an independent retailer, which, if true, means the blame on them sounds akin to blaming Apple because someone bought an iPhone and used it to place the call that ordered some nefarious deed.

 

21 minutes ago, Vespa Alex said:

Agreed. I’ve not seen anything that suggests Kingspan had anything to do with the selection of their products or knowledge of their use, though Mercedes arguing that point would be bad PR

 

I mean this company doesn't seem like you can take their statements at face value:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55052380

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55136137

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55986486

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It seems utterly crazy that it got through all of the conversations, not just with Kingspan, but internally at Merc.  As I understand it, from Mercedes perspective (not the F1 team, the car company) their entire F1 program is an amazingly cheap, for the investment, marketing drive.  The exposure they get is incredible, with other companies (like Kingspan) helping to reduce that investment, and prize money likely even negating it nowadays. 

 

Making the car black, watching their lead driver wear various t-shirts and rainbow helmets and talking about justice, social and otherwise, it's disappointing that no one else in the team saw this as an issue.

 

Money talks I guess...

 

image.thumb.png.13046b0a51fe53926054998b61dc37ee.png

 

 

Lots of talk of decarbonising manufacturing / building here, shame they aren't talking about decarbonising peoples homes...

https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/en/news/2021/12/kingspan-announced-new-partner-mercedes-f1-team/

 

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https://www.planetf1.com/news/helmut-marko-saudi-arabia-incident-apology/

 

“In any case, we are just looking ahead. We want to win in Abu Dhabi and so win the title. We will do everything for this, but we will not take any unfair actions.

“In Saudi Arabia, we already had the pace to keep up with Hamilton. The track in Abu Dhabi should be more accommodating to us.”

 

Is that true? I remember Lewis being able to easily hold the gap behind Max on hards when Max was on mediums, and looked like he could have pulled away if in front, before all the shithousing started. Max did chew up his first set of mediums though so maybe was tyre-saving.

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Max was on mediums to get the jump at the restart. If he’d been on pole they’d have left him on hards that would have lasted until the end.  The pressure from Hamilton is what caused him to burn them out, no other medium driver had such a large drop off at the end of the race and it took a lot of laps for Hamilton to be in the position to try and overtake. 

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15 minutes ago, morcs said:

https://www.planetf1.com/news/helmut-marko-saudi-arabia-incident-apology/

 

“In any case, we are just looking ahead. We want to win in Abu Dhabi and so win the title. We will do everything for this, but we will not take any unfair actions.

“In Saudi Arabia, we already had the pace to keep up with Hamilton. The track in Abu Dhabi should be more accommodating to us.”

 

Is that true? I remember Lewis being able to easily hold the gap behind Max on hards when Max was on mediums, and looked like he could have pulled away if in front, before all the shithousing started. Max did chew up his first set of mediums though so maybe was tyre-saving.

 

Saving face isn’t it, Hamilton has schooled Max several times this way causing the tyre advantage to become a disadvantage as he burns them out - Hamilton looked to have better race pace even with damage to the wing element.

 

We just need the apology from @Dudley and we can all move on from this sorry affair ;) 

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I think Merc would prefer to be in front dictating pace, rather than stuck behind with a car that's not particularly great at following. Relying on having better tyres at the end. 

Lewis famously, has a problem making this tyres last after all. He keeps telling Bono that they're gone. 

 

 

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I don't think the engine strategy is a good one purely because it means you commit to having to pass Max on track. Right now I don't think you can expect him to race cleanly. 

 

UNLESS the benefit is *huge* and Merc are confident any move can be made with DRS before they get to the braking zone.

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27 minutes ago, morcs said:

https://www.planetf1.com/news/helmut-marko-saudi-arabia-incident-apology/

 

“In any case, we are just looking ahead. We want to win in Abu Dhabi and so win the title. We will do everything for this, but we will not take any unfair actions.

“In Saudi Arabia, we already had the pace to keep up with Hamilton. The track in Abu Dhabi should be more accommodating to us.”

 

Is that true? I remember Lewis being able to easily hold the gap behind Max on hards when Max was on mediums, and looked like he could have pulled away if in front, before all the shithousing started. Max did chew up his first set of mediums though so maybe was tyre-saving.

Interviewed on the F1 Nation podcast, Horner said Lewis was a second faster per lap than Max and seemed less than optimistic the situation would be any different in Abu Dhabi. Max will probably have to be extremely aggressive or watch Ham sail off into the distance. Wonder which one he'll go for. 

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33 minutes ago, mexos said:

I don't think the engine strategy is a good one purely because it means you commit to having to pass Max on track. Right now I don't think you can expect him to race cleanly. 

 

UNLESS the benefit is *huge* and Merc are confident any move can be made with DRS before they get to the braking zone.

 

Yes, I think a new engine is definitely a very risky strategy. Much more likely to get tagged or bogged down in the pack from the off too.  You only need to be stuck behind Lando for five laps and Max at the front could be well on the way to a pitstop in hand. 

 

I actually think Red Bull are more likely to be in a sticky position regarding engines. They have had, what, 4 engines this year? Of which we can assume Silverstone might well have killed one of them. Hamilton on 5 engines but without the Silverstone engine killing incident. 

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15 minutes ago, ryodi said:

Its typical Max though isn’t it. Hamilton had made the move and Max kept going on the outside into a gap that wasn’t there, the same thing he did at the first restart. 


This is something that I’ve always found unclear. To me Max is alongside enough to be entitled to a car’s width, I’m not sure why so often it’s claimed that the car in the inside has a right to squeeze the outside car off the track, even if 90% of the time the inside will win anyway.

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Max was only alongside because he braked so late he was never going to make the corner. This isn’t the case so much when Hamilton forces him off but is at the first restart which makes it look less egregious than it is.
 

The Brazil engine has also done two and one third races due to Sprint Qualifying.

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there was a an FIA to Merc radio call to warn them it wasn’t acceptable and would be penalised if repeated. 
 

Obviously the random-penalty-selectometer has taken into account the crap from Max earlier and decided not to penalise Lewis first time around.

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...

6 minutes ago, jonathanhoey said:

63783054-F7A0-4B67-9B91-1C1D9B9A73FA.gif.8f02b38f16a1dce4ff3b1cb97275bcc7.gif

 

Lewis got a black-and-white flag for this, didn’t he?

and he stayed on the track, whilst max got a pat on the head and told to be a bit more careful in Brazil after following Lewis off the track to make sure he didn't get any funny ideas.

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20 minutes ago, jonathanhoey said:

63783054-F7A0-4B67-9B91-1C1D9B9A73FA.gif.8f02b38f16a1dce4ff3b1cb97275bcc7.gif

 

Lewis got a black-and-white flag for this, didn’t he?

 

For me that is hard racing but I can cope with it because Lewis stayed on the track implying that he did have control of the car.  Max tends to do similar but either lose control or deliberately go well off the track himself. Forcing another car off the track because you have also gone off the track yourself is not on. 

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1 hour ago, Meers said:

Stabilised overtake from Lewis on Max:

 

https://streamable.com/nu0ukg

 

Lewis didn't really go for the apex there, did he?

 

 

why would he? after all he's put up with, it's basically the equivalent of leaving a little bit in your next tackle to show you won't take it lying down.

 

stewards can't give him a penalty after letting so much go

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1 hour ago, morcs said:

He made the apex!

 

The apex is the point at which you are closest to the inside of the corner, also referred to as the clipping point. Once you have hit the apex you should be able to reduce the steering lock, start increasing the throttle and focus on the exit. It usually isn't at the end of the kerb stones (as you can see in the vid below) but more halfway through the corner if Lewis would have followed the ideal line through it.

 

He left no space for Max and decided to squeeze him, even looked in his right mirror whilst turning left (check his onboard).

 

Granted, Max hit the brakes late enough to get alongside, but too late to have made that corner the way he did. Lewis should have known that and there was no need for the squeeze at all, hence the black n white flag.

 

30 minutes ago, jonathanhoey said:

63783054-F7A0-4B67-9B91-1C1D9B9A73FA.gif.8f02b38f16a1dce4ff3b1cb97275bcc7.gif

 

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10 minutes ago, SMD said:

 

why would he? after all he's put up with, it's basically the equivalent of leaving a little bit in your next tackle to show you won't take it lying down.

 

stewards can't give him a penalty after letting so much go

 

You're hilarious.  Poor little Lewis 🎻

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40 minutes ago, Blue said:

No, Masi called Merc to say he had almost considered a black and white flag. 

 

Blue, that is all about let them race. :lol:

 

Jokes aside, that move is imo all about Ham showing his disgust at what had gone before by giving Max a little taste of his own medicine. It wasn't right though and he should have received a slap at the very least - if not a pen. It was not clean racing imo. FIA were in a pickle mind after Brazil. Imagine the scenes if they'd penalised Ham here after letting it slide in Brazil.

 

It kind of makes me think of the way Alonso did his move at the first corner a few races ago. I can get away with that? Cool, I'll do it then. THEN the FIA wake up and do something about it for future races.

 

All of this could have been avoided if they'd dealt with that move in Brazil... 

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