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Formula One 2021 - DRAMA - #Michael Messy


T Pot
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31 minutes ago, RFT said:

The problem is, once the "at fault" status of a crash becomes something with a direct finanical impact, then that turns an already acrimonious situation into one where the results of a crash would be endlessly challenged and relitigated, even beyond what we've already seen.

 

Yes, you're right. Any provision for repair costs being separate to the cost cap should be independent of fault. 

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10 minutes ago, T Pot said:

 

It's something they've never dealt with before due to the new cost caps. Maybe the answer is leave it as it is now, or don't include repairs from crashes in your cost cap or something else entirely.

 

But I can certainly see why team bosses are now wanting the costs covered by another team in the event of accidents. Staff lost their jobs so teams could hit the budget this year, and it's only going to get tighter over the next couple as the cap goes down. 


But how would you enforce it? Imagine the Mugello crash happened, how would you sort out who should pay the bill? Or the Portimao crash that was in part caused by slow Red Bull with an engine problem being passed by cars around him. You also open the possibility of sister teams helping their main team, RB used AT to stop Hamilton getting fastest lap yesterday so why could they accidently knock a RB front wing on track allowing RB to give him a new one. It would be a mess.

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1 minute ago, ryodi said:


But how would you enforce it? Imagine the Mugello crash happened, how would you sort out who should pay the bill? Or the Portimao crash that was in part caused by slow Red Bull with an engine problem being passed by cars around him. You also open the possibility of sister teams helping their main team, RB used AT to stop Hamilton getting fastest lap yesterday so why could they accidently knock a RB front wing on track allowing RB to give him a new one. It would be a mess.

 

I think you're quoting the wrong person here. I don't want the teams deemed at fault to pay for accidents. It could kill some of them depending on the size of the crash. 

 

I think something like a provision for if your car is DNFd due to a major crash then the repairs are not included in the cost cap. Or something. I dunno. I don't know how it would be enforced, but the FIA seem alright at enforcing current budgets and part limits so I assume they'd find a way.

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42 minutes ago, GwiDan said:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/aston-martin-vettel-hungarian-gp-fuel-analysis/6641069/
 

This is a great article. Now if someone could explain what a lift pump is, that would be awesome. 

With proper pumps a lift pump is a pump that has to overcome a static head due to elevation, literally lift fluid from one elevation to another. 
 

Arguably all (or nearly all) pumps are designed to overcome static but when I have been designing them a lift pump is lifting on the suction side rather than the discharge.

 

In this instance i assume it’s just a name to detail pumping from a fuel sump at the bottom of the body and back out.

 

Unless this was a beard/shave comment

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Sorry. Perhaps the teams could pay into an insurance fund and that pays out a percentage of the part cost if there’s a crash. The big problem is that teams will definitely abuse it because stretching the rules is what they do.

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2 minutes ago, winky said:

With proper pumps a lift pump is a pump that has to overcome a static head due to elevation, literally lift fluid from one elevation to another. 
 

Arguably all (or nearly all) pumps are designed to overcome static but when I have been designing them a lift pump is lifting on the suction side rather than the discharge.

 

In this instance i assume it’s just a name to detail pumping from a fuel sump at the bottom of the body and back out.

 

Unless this was a beard/shave comment

No it was a serious question, thank you for the explanation. 

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2 hours ago, MrPogo said:

What happens if and when a team maxes out their budget? Could we potentially end up with teams fielding only one car in the final race (and with that one car having half the front wing missing and a big hole in the bodywork) because they’re not allowed to spend any more on repairs?

 

It's a soft cap, you can exceed it at the cost of a fine.  So if it somehow really came down to what you said there would simply be a fine which would be considerably below the fine for either missing an event or fielding an unsafe car.

 

1 hour ago, T Pot said:

 

As someone said on Reddit, the FIA would have to have almost a forensics level of oversight on the teams accounts. 

 

Which they can't do, apologies for the repeated point in this thread but the FIA can see the accounts of RBR and AT. They cannot see the accounts of independent company Red Bull Technologies.  They've fudged the budget cap by setting "minimum" costs for parts so RBT can't charge the team $1 but there is absolutely room for shenanigans.

 

1 hour ago, Blue said:

Yes, you're right. Any provision for repair costs being separate to the cost cap should be independent of fault. 

 

"Oh no we've had a practice crash" Oh well, let's fit this set of lovely new uncracked parts then.

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4 minutes ago, Dudley said:

Which they can't do, apologies for the repeated point in this thread but the FIA can see the accounts of RBR and AT.

 

I know. Hence why I'm not advocating for teams to pay for rivals repairs.

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The cost cap is, to quite a large degree a lie.

 

I forget what number it's at but let's say $150m.

 

They KNOW they can't police $150m, even with all the things they excluded (Most notably engines and drivers).  But they think that F1 teams won't be able to play enough silly buggers that the actual spend might fall from $300m to $200m.

 

In reality the budget for everything Mercedes to is still going to be pretty close to $300m, minus some profit from flogging engines to McLaren, Williams and AstJorForSpyMidPoint.

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12 minutes ago, Dudley said:

Also that, if it's the incident I remember, he was only able to do so because he ran off the road anyway.

He gave the place back then overtook him again. 

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40 minutes ago, Dudley said:

Also that, if it's the incident I remember, he was only able to do so because he ran off the road anyway.

 

26 minutes ago, Blue said:

He gave the place back then overtook him again. 

As Blue said, he gave it back but I think he carried the speed to take him again shortly after.

 

Don't get me wrong, all drivers move back across the front of the car theyve just overtaken, Max seems to do it alot sooner though, often forcing the other driver to take avoiding action.

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Hmm, I'd say that's dodgy tbh, and indeed a few years back Hamilton got penalised for pretty much literally that at Spa.

 

 

You'll need to watch it on youtube itself.

 

32 minutes ago, kiroquai said:

*small and pointless retro F1 interlude begins here*

 

Browsing through this page and saw...

image.png.b3ab09e3b58a2df19dece3244a71d694.png

... and my brain's internal predictive text immediately yelled 'SALA!'

 

*small and pointless retro F1 interlude ends here*

 

That one is only for me but I liked it :)

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1 hour ago, Dudley said:

Hmm, I'd say that's dodgy tbh, and indeed a few years back Hamilton got penalised for pretty much literally that at Spa.

 

 

You'll need to watch it on youtube itself.

 

 

That one is only for me but I liked it :)


I guess the main differences are Hamilton cut the corner rather than going wide, and fully gained a place before giving it back rather than just getting his nose in front, but I seem to remember it not actually breaking any rules at the time and them inventing a new “if you go off the track attempting an overtake you’re not allowed to try again until the next lap” to punish him with retrospectively.

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I can’t seem to find the image but there is a shot of the damage to Max’s car doing the rounds (insta) and I’m shocked that the people whining about working on a car under red flags have not been jumping up and down about that especially how dangerous it looks……… 🤓

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3 minutes ago, Shimmyhill said:

I can’t seem to find the image but there is a shot of the damage to Max’s car doing the rounds (insta) and I’m shocked that the people whining about working on a car under red flags have not been jumping up and down about that especially how dangerous it looks……… 🤓

 

Yeah but it's different this time. 

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33 minutes ago, Shimmyhill said:

I can’t seem to find the image but there is a shot of the damage to Max’s car doing the rounds (insta) and I’m shocked that the people whining about working on a car under red flags have not been jumping up and down about that especially how dangerous it looks……… 🤓

Yes, but this time everything was alwhite alright.

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23 hours ago, kiroquai said:

I agree that something needs to be done - perhaps some kind of 'repair pool' fund that teams can dip into.

 

In other news... Danny Ric is really struggling :(

 

 

 

 

This makes me sad. But not for too long. He'll sort it.

 

More of this grin pls.

E73AM6oWEAs3WNA?format=jpg&name=900x900

 

 

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