Jump to content

Analogue Duo - Complete with CD-ROM!


Recommended Posts

24 minutes ago, Alexlotl said:

Yeah, I know it makes no financial sense, but it makes quite a lot of infrastructure sense. The SFC was designed to be backwards compatible with the Famicom until quite late in its development cycle. The CPU is compatible. The controller ports are actually pin compatible - it's just that they're arbitrarily a different shape, unlike with the SMS/MD, which kept the same shape. Knock up a conversion cable and you can use an SNES controller on a NES no bother. The cart slot has sufficient pins to handle both Famicom and NES carts.

 

Not that a lot of that would matter with an FPGA infrastructure. But if Kevtris hasn't at least tried to get his NES core running on a Super NT, then I'm a monkey's uncle.

 

 

Your reply does confuse me. Analogue doesnt create a cart adaptor to play NES games on the Super NT because it would be leaving money on the table. They are a business, and there is a huge market for another FPGA based NES console at the cheaper price of $189. Im pretty sure they will do this in the future.

 

Who cares how easy it would be for them to knock up a cart adapter, we both agree that it would be a poor financial decision.

 

The Analogue consoles use the same FPGA processor. So of course the NES "core" will run on any of their FPGA consoles. They can just run the program that tells the FPGA to act like a NES instead of a SNES.

 

Just like the program that runs on the Mega SG that tells it to run as a Gamegear, or the NES Noir that can run as an Atari VCS.

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Alexlotl said:

I think I might play wait and see without Kevtris onboard. Also, I expect we'll see accusation of stealing from MiSTer start flying - there was already some (AFAIK baseless) chuntering about it, but given as it was freely acknowleded that Kevtris was an FPGA genius, it generally died with a whimper.

 

Kevtris is still responsible for the PCE core even though he's not directly writing it - he has other FPGA devs under his direction now (according to clarifications he's made on the Classic Gaming discord). He's busy with the Pocket cores and his GBA apparantly fixes bugs that were never ironed out in the original hardware (?!).

 

I remember one the lead MiSTer devs - bona fide FPGA genius himself Jotago - unfortunately and publicly accusing Kevtris of lifting the newly completed 68000 core and demanding that Analogue publish their Mega SG source as per terms of the open source license. Huge shame.

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, ulala said:

 

 

Your reply does confuse me. Analogue doesnt create a cart adaptor to play NES games on the Super NT because it would be leaving money on the table. They are a business, and there is a huge market for another FPGA based NES console at the cheaper price of $189. Im pretty sure they will do this in the future.

 

Who cares how easy it would be for them to knock up a cart adapter, we both agree that it would be a poor financial decision.

 

The Analogue consoles use the same FPGA processor. So of course the NES "core" will run on any of their FPGA consoles. They can just run the program that tells the FPGA to act like a NES instead of a SNES.

 

Just like the program that runs on the Mega SG that tells it to run as a Gamegear, or the NES Noir that can run as an Atari VCS.

 

I think we're largely agreeing here - Analogue almost certainly won't do it, because they can make more money doing something else. But if they did do it, it would a) align their Sega and Nintendo products b) have something of a historical basis, and c) would be possible to work with real carts/controllers using the current hardwired cart/port connectors, with the addition of simple adapters.

 

As for the portability of the cores, it'll be interesting to see that on the Pocket. I know some supporting circuitry is needed besides the FPGA, so I don't know if you'd, for example, be able to run the Super NT core on the Mega SG, or vice-versa. The Mega SG board is quite a bit more complicated than the Super NT board, but that may just be for the analogue headphone out and the expansion port.

 

Super NT:

8q1ukthpf1d51.jpg

 

Mega SG:

oQj2XGQ.jpg

 

Interesting that these two sell at the same price point.

Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, Alexlotl said:

Interesting that these two sell at the same price point.

 

Well whats going to blow your mind, is that the pocket, with its reference quality screen and a battery and TWO FPGA chips also sells at the same price.

 

The Duo is going to be released with a cart port and a cd drive at the same price point too.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ulala said:

They are a business, and there is a huge market for another FPGA based NES console at the cheaper price of $189. Im pretty sure they will do this in the future.

 

*cough* RetroUSB AVS *cough* 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Conversely, I've had one since launch and I could not recommend it enough.

Highly accurate FPGA solution with zero lag, and looks fantastic at 720p with horizontal interpolation. It's basically set just right out of the box, which is never the case with the Analogue products that need tweaking to get them just right, and then it resets with every firmware update. 

 

I've never had a single problem with either the NES or Famicom cart slots, although I've read that some short pin carts don't work correctly in the NES slot, which RetroUSB offered a replacement plug-in slot for free. It's also well designed to be user serviceable like that.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Kevvy Metal said:

It's basically set just right out of the box, which is never the case with the Analogue products that need tweaking to get them just right, 

 

 

wrong.

 

you are able to change settings with an analogue console to get them to your own personal preference. There is no "just right". 

 

For example You may hate scanlines, i love them. It cannot be set up right for both of us right out of the box.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, ulala said:

 

wrong.

 

you are able to change settings with an analogue console to get them to your own personal preference. There is no "just right". 

 

For example You may hate scanlines, i love them. It cannot be set up right for both of us right out of the box.

 

 

 

Is the "you're wrong hah!" really necessary?

 

Well, if you're wanting to be pedantic, I'll re-phrase it as it's set with a very usable setup straight out of the box, with 720p being the most useful and compatible resolution for scaling to any TV, and the best resolution for using scanlines where they look correct and interpolation set for just the horizonal axis exactly as you'd want.

It's a bit more like using the RetroTink 2x which has everything you need straight out the box in comparison to the OSSC with it's highly customisable processing. It's certainly easier than having to follow a Firebrand X written set up process on your machine every firmware update to get the scaling right. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Kevvy Metal said:

 

Is the "you're wrong hah!" really necessary?

 

Well, if you're wanting to be pedantic, I'll re-phrase it as it's set with a very usable setup straight out of the box, with 720p being the most useful and compatible resolution for scaling to any TV, and the best resolution for using scanlines where they look correct and interpolation set for just the horizonal axis exactly as you'd want.

It's a bit more like using the RetroTink 2x which has everything you need straight out the box in comparison to the OSSC with it's highly customisable processing. It's certainly easier than having to follow a Firebrand X written set up process on your machine every firmware update to get the scaling right. 

 

 

sorry, you are absolutely correct, it wasn't necessary.

 

The Mega SG works out of the box, but you can really tweak it to your own tastes. Perhaps for me, say i dont want scanlines so the RetroUSB AVS doesnt work for me out of the box.

 

perhaps we can both agree that anyone spending so much on the Mega Sg prehaps doesnt mind the setup. Just like anyone who buys a retropi or a MiSTer doesnt mind it - we know what we are getting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

To be honest, I've never done any real tinkering with either of my Analogue consoles to set them up - I've always been pretty happy with how they come out the box.

 

There are lots of different options for things like scaling and so on so you can get things just the way you want them, but they're also very usable straight out of the box. In fact, by default, only a simplified set of display options are shown, with you needing to unlock the more advanced settings. It's a very decent setup.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, ulala said:

 

sorry, you are absolutely correct, it wasn't necessary.

 

The Mega SG works out of the box, but you can really tweak it to your own tastes. Perhaps for me, say i dont want scanlines so the RetroUSB AVS doesnt work for me out of the box.

 

perhaps we can both agree that anyone spending so much on the Mega Sg prehaps doesnt mind the setup. Just like anyone who buys a retropi or a MiSTer doesnt mind it - we know what we are getting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you love scan-lines, the AVS has one of the best implementation of them. It's a slider in the menu so you can get the opacity of them set to however you like, and also they look just the right thickness with the 720p output. 

 

I've found Game Gear and Master System games to look particularly not set right on the Mega SG, with a lot of blank screen left unused till you tweak the whole thing. Luckily there's a Firebrand cheat sheet for all this, but setting it each time the fireware updates can be a right PITA 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

For MegaSG settings these are easily the best to use. Easier to set from this list than trying to copy from a vid:

 

System >>> Menu Options >>>

Highlight Style = Throb

Font = Alternate and all uppercase

High-res File Browser Checked


Startup Options >>>

Boot Sequence Delay = 0

Menu Direct


LED Options >>>

K-Pro Rainbow

Adjust Pattern >>> Animate Speed = 1


Back out and enter Core mode selection


Genesis Core Video:

-- FirebrandX 4x:
* set horizontal pos=23, vertical pos=51
320: 1360x960 disable HV (check boxes)
256: 1242x960 enable H, disable V

-- FirebrandX Fit Active graphics to Screen:
* set horizontal pos=13, vertical pos=47
320: 1637x1157 enable HV (uncheck boxes)
256: 1496x1157 enable HV (uncheck boxes)

-- FirebrandX 5x cropped:
* set horizontal pos=16, vertical pos=47
320: 1700x1200 disable HV
256: 1553x1200 enable H, disable V

-- FirebrandX 720p, square for 320
* set horizontal pos=27, vertical pos=39
320: 1020x720 disable HV
256: 931x720 enable H, disable V

Master System Core:

-- FirebrandX 5x:
* set horizontal pos=10, vertical pos=50
1462x1200 enable H, disable V

Cropping: Left = 8, Right = 0, Top = 23, Bottom = 25

-- FirebrandX 720p:
*set horizontal pos=25, vertical pos=44
877x720 enable H, disable V


Game Gear Core:

-- FirebrandX 7x with screen AR:
*set Horiszontal pos=0, vertical pos=38
1344x1008 enable H, disable V

-- FirebrandX 720p with screen AR:
*set Horiszontal pos=3, vertical pos=34
960x720 disable BOTH H and V


Colecovision:

-- FirebrandX 5x:
* set horizontal pos=10, vertical pos=50
1462x1200 enable H, disable V

-- FirebrandX 720p:
*set horizontal pos=25, vertical pos=44
877x720 enable H, disabled V

---------------------------------------------------
Audio

Gensis Audio

Panning : -100/+100

=========================================

Cleanest Possible Sound:


Ladder Effect Depth = 0

YM2612 High Quality Audio Mode = checked

No LPF

YML = 100
YMR = 100
Square 1 = 32
Square 2 = 32
Square 3 = 32
Square 4 = 29

==========================================

Clear 2612 Audio:


Ladder Effect Depth = 3

YM2612 High Quality Audio Mode = unchecked

LPF turned off

YML = 100
YMR = 100
Square 1 = 32
Square 2 = 32
Square 3 = 32
Square 4 = 29

========================================

Clean 3438 Audio:

Ladder Effect Depth = 0

YM2612 High Quality Audio Mode = unchecked

No LPF

YML = 100
YMR = 100
Square 1 = 32
Square 2 = 32
Square 3 = 32
Square 4 = 29

=========================================


Pre VA7 Genesis Model 1:

These consoles sport a YM2612 for FM audio and require the ladder effect to sound right. At this
point, it is not currently possible to 100% accurately simulate the characteristics of the low-pass
filter in these revisions due to how the Mega SG low-pass filter currently behaves. So here's the closest
we can get under the current limitations of the Mega Sg's low-pass filter:

Ladder Effect Depth = 3

YM2612 High Quality Audio Mode = unchecked


LPF settings:

Cutoff Frequency = 3400

Rolloff Rate = 15

Check all filtering boxes
  

Channel Volume Settings:

YML = 100
YMR = 100
Square 1 = 32
Square 2 = 32
Square 3 = 32
Square 4 = 29

=======================================

M1 Va7 & M2:

With the exception of two revisions of the Genesis model 2, all Genesis revisions since the VA7
Genesis model 1 replace the YM2612 with a YM3438, which lacks the ladder effect. The low-pass
filter has been modified as well to add an extra filter stage to the FM output. It cannot be 100%
accurately replicated, but we can do a rough approximation using the Mega SG’s current low-pass filter. 
This approximation is based on the filter setup found on the VA3 Genesis model 2.


Ladder Effect Depth = 0

YM2612 High Quality Audio Mode = unchecked


LPF Settings: Same as pre VA7 Model 1 consoles.

LPF Settings for M2 VA3: uncheck everything except the YM channels


Channel Volume Settings: Same as pre VA7 M1 consoles.

Channel Volume Settings for M2 VA3: 100, 100, 20, 20, 20, 17


========================================

CDX

While the CDX is based around the same base components as early Genesis model 2s, its low-pass
filter is not as strong, resulting in a slightly less muffled sound and its PSG/FM mix has quieter PSG
than other revisions. Here's how we can approximate this:

Ladder Effect Depth = 0

YM2612 High Quality Audio Mode = unchecked

LPF Settings: 5400, 26, only YML and YMR checked.


Channel Volume Settings: 100, 100, 18, 18, 18, 16

========================================

X'Eye

Like the CDX, its base hardware is the same as early Genesis Model 2s, though its low-pass filter is
harsher and more muffled, and its PSG/FM mix has PSG mixed in noticeably louder than other
revisions. So we have to approximate this as follows:

Ladder Effect Depth = 0

YM2612 High Quality Audio Mode = unchecked


LPF Settings: 3800, 24, only YML and YMR checked.


Channel Volume Settings: 100, 100, 25, 25, 25, 23

========================================


Master System Audio:

Channel Levels:

Square 1 = 45
Square 2 = 45
Square 3 = 45
Noise = 42
YM2413 L = 53
YM2413 R = 53

NO LPF

========================================

Game Gear Audio:

Adjust Panning to max out -100/+100 for all channels

Channel levels

SQR1 L = 45
SQR1 R = 45
SQR2 L = 45
SQR2 R = 45
SQR3 L = 45
SQR3 R = 45
Noise L = 42
Noise R = 42

No LPF

=========================================

Colecovision Audio:

By default, Colecovision games have some panning applied to the channels. 

Start by setting all channel panning to 0.

Channel levels:

Square 1 = 45
Square 2 = 45
Square 3 = 45
Noise = 42
SGM 1 = 45
SGM 2 = 45
SGM 3 = 45

No LPF

Link to post
Share on other sites

Right! Kevtrisgate has been cleared up a bit from Bob at Retro RGB. 

 

He reached out the Kevtris and the situation is, that there is now a team of FPGA engineers with Kevtris acting as the lead engineer, therefore giving leadership and guidance to a group of other engineers and this is how things are rolling at Analogue. So he might not of programmed the PC-E core himself but he's certainly overseeing it. This probably also applies to the cores used in the Pocket, as there's quite a lot of them. 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Kevvy Metal said:

Right! Kevtrisgate has been cleared up a bit from Bob at Retro RGB. 

 

He reached out the Kevtris and the situation is, that there is now a team of FPGA engineers with Kevtris acting as the lead engineer, therefore giving leadership and guidance to a group of other engineers and this is how things are rolling at Analogue. So he might not of programmed the PC-E core himself but he's certainly overseeing it. This probably also applies to the cores used in the Pocket, as there's quite a lot of them. 

 

 


great news!

Link to post
Share on other sites

What is the likelihood of this getting custom firmware? All the previous system cores were done by kevtris and he released the custom firmware a few days after release. As he’s not personally writing the cores for this one, does that mean that its less likely there will be a way of playing rom files off of an SD card? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Ghost said:

What is the likelihood of this getting custom firmware? All the previous system cores were done by kevtris and he released the custom firmware a few days after release. As he’s not personally writing the cores for this one, does that mean that its less likely there will be a way of playing rom files off of an SD card? 

 

nobody knows

 

but all we know is that all the other devices have jailbreak firmware released so far

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 4 weeks later...

Didn't want to start a new thread as most of the complaining about Analogue seems to be going on in here :lol: Here's another example of just how poorly they act by not announcing they are actually shipping the NT Noir:

 

 

No comments or replies just a lot of confusion with some receiving confirmation emails they are shipped but not getting any further details or tracking info. That's even after people paid a hefty chunk of cash for that service. They rarely if ever reply and hide from 99% of correspondence. It's just bonkers.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 14/10/2020 at 10:37, ulala said:

The customs charge isnt "unknown", you can calculate it yourself, with a vat calculator. Do you think they make this up?

 

 

18 minutes ago, DeciderVT said:

Jesus. Some UK people are getting £200+ in import fees from FedEx for their Nt Mini Noirs:

 

Screenshot_20201125-083823_Chrome.thumb.jpg.8f256ac5dc4892f6a45d6ed88c6f396a.jpg

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Cost of console = $500, so lets call it £430

Shipping, lets call it £50

 

Import Duty = 0 (As stated on the fed ex docket)

VAT is 20% of £430 +£50 = £96

 

Fed Ex fee = £12 (which you can claim back, as you didn't have a contract with them)

 

 

So what are the "other Taxes"?

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

33 minutes ago, DeciderVT said:

Nobody seems to know. Even the stated tax is high though. 20% of $548.99 does not work out to £94, unless you're fiddling exchange rates. Something is very wrong here.

 

It worked out perfectly in my example

 

VAT is 20% of £430 

 

Of course the exact amount depends on the individual shipping cost (they vary)

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure where you got £430 and £50 from- it was $499 for the console and $49.99 shipping here, which works out to approximately £405 today. Factoring VAT into that gives a figure of £81, plus whatever fee FedEx wants to charge on top (£12, it seems).

Perhaps they've lumped duty into "other tax" as the government guidelines on it are basically "phone our helpline to find out" for commercial goods over £135. Either way, I had an item of nearly double the value delivered from outside the EU by DHL a few months ago and the duty I was charged then was comparable to this. Either something's changed or FedEx are doing something wrong.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you try and buy one on eBay it tries to charge £400 for customs fees (you can click Buy It Now and see the right total on the checkout page, doesn't buy it so don't panic if you want to test!). I paid £850 for my Preorder in the UK on eBay which included free shipping... but these new prices :lol:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Use of this website is subject to our Privacy Policy, Terms of Use, and Guidelines.