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Hogwarts Legacy - TERF war


Captain Kelsten
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42 minutes ago, Festoon said:

I'm wondering how strong the Potter franchise is, tbh. I think it may have burned itself out a bit.

 

Its still bloody iconic - you only really need to look at the numbers of people who got to the Universal Parks just for the Potter stuff, the fact you still need to book weeks in advance to go to the studio experience at Leavesdon, the fact the stage show is still selling out night after night despite the sheer bloody expense of seeing both parts, the number of people who watched the HBO special.  Hell the books still dominate Amazon's most read list now in January 2022

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/charts/2022-01-09/mostread/fiction?ref=chrt_bk_dx_intra_rd_fc

 

(Oh and Philosophers Stone is also n.o 4 on the most sold list - that's despite it being first published in 1997)

 

And in more relevant terms, the number of my none video game playing friends (okay female Potter fan nerds but there's more than a handful) who are considering buying a console just to play this when it finally releases.

 

JK's views have caused something of an internet storm (although her views are far from unanimously reviled - just as much in the US as here and are somewhat more nuanced than is sometimes portrayed) but Potter has a life far beyond its author - much like no matter how evil the internal corporate culture of Ubi/Activision/EA etc etc is revealed to be people will still buy Assassins Creed, Call of Duty and FIFA

 

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I've never seen any gender critical comments from the socialist left from either the UK or the US. In the US it's exceedingly rare on the liberal or centrist left. In the UK there's definitely a good amount of it.

 

Most people here are on the socialist left. I assumed that's how it would be read, since anyone not on the Corbynite left is a centrist slug / Tory. 

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23 minutes ago, kensei said:

I've never seen any gender critical comments from the socialist left from either the UK or the US. In the US it's exceedingly rare on the liberal or centrist left. In the UK there's definitely a good amount of it.

 

Most people here are on the socialist left. I assumed that's how it would be read, since anyone not on the Corbynite left is a centrist slug / Tory. 

 

So we're ignoring that an overtly Marxist-Leninist newspaper, the Morning Star, published some transphobic content a couple of years ago? Not left-wing enough for you? (I won't go into the history of how Marxists have often been actively opposed to LGBTQ right and freedoms. I'd go as far as saying that the radical left being natural supporters of LGBTQ rights isn't the default outside of the Anglophone world, and only then from the 1980s onwards.)

 

(NB I'm absolutely not of the "Corbynite left", as you put it.)

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1 hour ago, Festoon said:

I'm wondering how strong the Potter franchise is, tbh. I think it may have burned itself out a bit.

 

Obviously the movie series is just a small part of where the HP franchise makes money (as @dreamylittledream said, there's the studio tours/theme parks, the Cursed Child play and book, merchandise, the original books, etc).

 

But focusing on just the movies' box office (as those figures are readily accessible), this is how much the two Fantastic Beasts movies have declined since the main series:

 

image.png.f2a21b1d55029e5009c231b13990c65e.png

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17 minutes ago, Protocol Penguin said:

 

So we're ignoring that an overtly Marxist-Leninist newspaper, the Morning Star, published some transphobic content a couple of years ago? 

 

Happy to accept it has happened. I've simply never seen it personally. The Guardian will publish gender critical pieces pretty regularly, so there does still seem a split.

 

@Nick R it's tricky because it's a spin off without the main cast, and Curse of Grindelwald was unfortunately not even good. I think that indicates it's not quite Spider-Man level (though that's had a few box office disappointments too) but pretty sure a Cursed Child adaptation would print money.

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27 minutes ago, Nick R said:

 

Obviously the movie series is just a small part of where the HP franchise makes money (as @dreamylittledream said, there's the studio tours/theme parks, the Cursed Child play and book, merchandise, the original books, etc).

 

But focusing on just the movies' box office (as those figures are readily accessible), this is how much the two Fantastic Beasts movies have declined since the main series:

 

image.png.f2a21b1d55029e5009c231b13990c65e.png

I'm not sure that really proves much of a point outside of people don't really like Fantastic Beasts that much (and the second film was by all accounts worse than the first one too, wasn't it?) Stuff directly related to Harry Potter is still hugely popular.

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58 minutes ago, Nick R said:

 

Obviously the movie series is just a small part of where the HP franchise makes money (as @dreamylittledream said, there's the studio tours/theme parks, the Cursed Child play and book, merchandise, the original books, etc).

 

But focusing on just the movies' box office (as those figures are readily accessible), this is how much the two Fantastic Beasts movies have declined since the main series:

 

image.png.f2a21b1d55029e5009c231b13990c65e.png


Even Potter fans are at best lukewarm on the Fantastic Beasts films and the last one was actually genuinely bad.

 

Like @kensei says the inevitable film adaption of Cursed Child would be a much more accurate reflection of the franchise’s continued popularity.

 

I wouldn’t lay bets against it doing Force Awakens style numbers when it’s eventually made.

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9 hours ago, kensei said:

I've never seen any gender critical comments from the socialist left from either the UK or the US. In the US it's exceedingly rare on the liberal or centrist left. In the UK there's definitely a good amount of it.

 

Most people here are on the socialist left. I assumed that's how it would be read, since anyone not on the Corbynite left is a centrist slug / Tory. 

This doesn't surprise me. The gender critical movement is predominantly one of left wing feminists, or at least that's its roots. The push back, in the UK at least, is predominantly left wing men. Which if you know your socialist history is sadly entirely unsurprising.

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15 minutes ago, Noopacity said:

This doesn't surprise me. The gender critical movement is predominantly one of left wing feminists, or at least that's its roots. The push back, in the UK at least, is predominantly left wing men. Which if you know your socialist history is sadly entirely unsurprising.

 

I don't know my history so I'd love to hear this expanded upon.

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10 hours ago, moosegrinder said:

 

I think people underestimate shit like this. Potter is now an evergreen franchise, like Pokémon and Spider-Man. There'll be new kids to introduce to it, ones who's parents don't know what a cunt Rowling is. Or don't care. 

 

 

Harry Potter to kids now is what Enid Blighton was to kids back when the first book was released.

 

Some parents will be getting their kids into it but judging by gen z tiktok it is hopelessly uncool.

 

Most of them take the piss out of millennials for liking it so much.

 

10 hours ago, kensei said:

 

 

There's definitely a section of the fanbase that is alienated, and it's a shame they were hurt but I reckon people here are overestimating the size of that because the vast majority of people do not pay attention to Twitter and arguments. 

 

 

WB have removed all reference to Rowling from the new beasts film, and she was conspicuous by her absence in the reunion special HBO did recently.

 

In the US there has been a very conscious effort to separate her from the franchise in the eyes of the public as she is seen as toxic there.

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1 hour ago, Unofficial Who said:

 

I don't know my history so I'd love to hear this expanded upon.

In the UK, you've got the under representation of the Match worker's strike in the history of trade unionism; resistance on the left to women's suffrage; failure to maximise women mobilised during the war into work in deference to returning male workers; numerous equal pay moments where female workers were under valued when represented by trade unions (ie bargaining for higher wages for male dominated workforces relative to female ones); right up to very recently when the GMB Union was called institutionally sexist (2020). There's that saying about the right wing and the religious treating women as private property and the left treating them as public property, hence support for the sex trade and surrogacy. 

 

This may be getting off topic for the tread! 

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10 hours ago, Nick R said:

 

Obviously the movie series is just a small part of where the HP franchise makes money (as @dreamylittledream said, there's the studio tours/theme parks, the Cursed Child play and book, merchandise, the original books, etc).

 

But focusing on just the movies' box office (as those figures are readily accessible), this is how much the two Fantastic Beasts movies have declined since the main series:

 

image.png.f2a21b1d55029e5009c231b13990c65e.png

 

Just something to consider, a large portion of the audience is around my age, having grown up with the series in terms of books and films. It’s the age range that is having children and find it harder to find the time to go out and watch films. So whilst those figures have declined you also have to consider the fan base has changed since the films. Heck the last Harry Potter film I was 21 compared with 28 for the last film, yes they aren’t as strong in comparison but their is a pretty loyal fan base, and I can guarantee that a good portion of that fan base would love to see this game reach completion (I must admit I am a bit sceptical about whether or not this will be achieved).

 

I’m a big fan of the series and like a lot of media content, I choose to continue to enjoy it even if the creator has proven to be an ass, there have been an awful lot of people involved with the Harry Potter media at all levels and to dismiss their hard work because the creator has the wrong view’s seem’s harsh.

 

Similarly with this game or even the fantastic beasts, yes the author created the world and will be getting royalties from them but the stories being told have been developed by others now. The world becomes somewhat bigger than the author despite them still getting some benefit.

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Isaac said:

 

That's an interesting collection of events, but it's not really correct. It's a failure of intersectional discourse within the UK.

 

This NYT article describes it pretty succinctly (paywalled so here's another version:

 

https://www.printfriendly.com/p/g/iDJtL6)

 

 

 

Not sure what any of that has to do with what I was saying, but like I say, it's all getting off topic. 

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1 minute ago, Noopacity said:

Not sure what any of that has to do with what I was saying, but like I say, it's all getting off topic. 

 

Apologies, I probably should have quoted your previous post where you said the TERF conversation in the UK is left wing women vs left wing men which is quite frankly total bollocks, and was quoting at length a piece that actually describes it better.

 

But you're right it is well off topic, let's leave it and move on.

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Aside from all the TERF-y stuff, it seems strange that this game is going through problems as I'm sure it relatively big-budget.

 

Any news that speaks as to what the dev problems might actually be?

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20 minutes ago, Festoon said:

Aside from all the TERF-y stuff, it seems strange that this game is going through problems as I'm sure it relatively big-budget.

 

Any news that speaks as to what the dev problems might actually be?

 

My theory, not just for this game but across the board, is that AAA game development is in crisis.

 

We're seeing more games delayed and then delayed again. More games releasing in unfinished states.

 

Partly it's Covid, partly crunch, partly toxic studio cultures. Old toolsets and work pipelines that are choking under the current expected levels of fidelity. The constant turnover of development talent preventing the building of institutional knowledge (and maybe this rate of turnover is starting to eclipse the number of new entrants in to the industry?). The sheer size of the teams with multiple studios around the world and third party contractors all working on the same game and the inherent problems that generates for managing projects.

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22 minutes ago, matt0 said:

 

My theory, not just for this game but across the board, is that AAA game development is in crisis.

 

We're seeing more games delayed and then delayed again. More games releasing in unfinished states.

 

Partly it's Covid, partly crunch, partly toxic studio cultures. Old toolsets and work pipelines that are choking under the current expected levels of fidelity. The constant turnover of development talent preventing the building of institutional knowledge (and maybe this rate of turnover is starting to eclipse the number of new entrants in to the industry?). The sheer size of the teams with multiple studios around the world and third party contractors all working on the same game and the inherent problems that generates for managing projects.

 

I do wonder about those things myself. Studios the size of Rockstar essentially now only being two game studios is quite a shame. You can see the same with Bethesda - why bother with ES6 when you can just apply a lick of paint to Skyrim again. Much less hassle.

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5 hours ago, Isaac said:

 

Harry Potter to kids now is what Enid Blighton was to kids back when the first book was released.

 

Some parents will be getting their kids into it but judging by gen z tiktok it is hopelessly uncool.

 

Most of them take the piss out of millennials for liking it so much.


Which’ is also the natural trajectory of pop culture, kids tend not to like what their parent like. Lego are still making new sets for the series every year like they do with Star Wars and I imagine that will continue until it becomes unprofitable.

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  • 2 weeks later...

For what it's worth Warner Bros are still saying it's getting released this year. 

 

https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/gotham-knights-is-on-course-to-release-this-year-after-earlier-delay-warner-says/

 

Quote

Following claims that Hogwarts Legacy’s release could be delayed to 2023, an official update released earlier this month stated that the game is on track to arrive in 2022.

 

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  • 1 month later...
8 hours ago, Mogster said:

Unless it's going to announce that Rowling's entire cut will instead be donated to trans rights charities, no chance.

 

Potter fanbase has been split into two by JK's recent trans views although I'm not sure of the percentages behind the cut.

 

Most who don't like her views who might be in the market for this are playing FF14 instead. But I reckon the market out there of Potter fans who either don't care or agree with JK Rowling is large enough that it will do very healthy business.

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