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Hogwarts Legacy - TERF war


Doctor Shark
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On 05/03/2021 at 19:02, moosegrinder said:

Yeah the guy absolutely doesn't have an agenda. He seems perfectly balanced and rational. Really.

 

Screenshot_20210305-185851.thumb.jpg.af77dc19f6acbcc26fbd1aaa4040f45a.jpg

 

Unless there is some horrific stuff in the actual videos, he shouldn't be losing his job over having asshole opinions. 

 

Aside from anything else, the right wing is a lot better at the game of creating outrage machines and will very effectively target people. 

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11 minutes ago, TehStu said:

He quit.

 

But yes, at-will employment sucks.

 

But did he quit or "quit"?

 

Of course I'm seeing a lot of people calling out left wing cancel culture for this but I didn't see any push for him to be ousted. Most of the people who weren't going to buy it weren't going to buy it anyway with or without his involvement. It might have been completely different if he had been making those videos concurrent with his employment.

 

It reminds me of the James Gunn thing where he lost his employment due to comments made ten years earlier. I suspect I'm going to be disappointed when he releases his video/statement but if we want to avoid people becoming entrenched in their views we need to give them room to disavow previous views.

 

Worst case scenario? WB told him to quit the Harry Potter project because of his views (which mirror JK's to an extent) and that leaves him where for employment? There's been a few jokes about setting out to join the right wing grift machine but if it's a choice between that or his family starving I can see why the former would be enticing.

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2 minutes ago, Unofficial Who said:

 

But did he quit or "quit"?

 

Of course I'm seeing a lot of people calling out left wing cancel culture for this but I didn't see any push for him to be ousted. Most of the people who weren't going to buy it weren't going to buy it anyway with or without his involvement. It might have been completely different if he had been making those videos concurrent with his employment.

 

It reminds me of the James Gunn thing where he lost his employment due to comments made ten years earlier. I suspect I'm going to be disappointed when he releases his video/statement but if we want to avoid people becoming entrenched in their views we need to give them room to disavow previous views.

 

Worst case scenario? WB told him to quit the Harry Potter project because of his views (which mirror JK's to an extent) and that leaves him where for employment? There's been a few jokes about setting out to join the right wing grift machine but if it's a choice between that or his family starving I can see why the former would be enticing.

 

I'd say there's a bit of a difference between a letter writing campaign to Disney by MAGA chuds over an ancient, wilfully misinterpreted joke to oust someone because they've made no secret of disliking Trump, and actively maintaining a YouTube channel full of misogynist, defamatory shit while very conspicuously going on about how you're employed by Warner Bros on a high profile project and they're cool with this.

 

https://www.thegamer.com/hogwarts-legacys-lead-dev-who-quit-highlights-the-art-of-the-grift/

 

Dude's Mobygames has a long list of licensed games, and there are many strata of lower profile games/tech companies he can slink away to with the minimum of fuss.

 

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6 hours ago, Unofficial Who said:

 

 

Worst case scenario? WB told him to quit the Harry Potter project because of his views (which mirror JK's to an extent) and that leaves him where for employment? There's been a few jokes about setting out to join the right wing grift machine but if it's a choice between that or his family starving I can see why the former would be enticing.

Outside of Terfing, Rowling would be far far too left wing for him.

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3 hours ago, TehStu said:

Haha, left wing cancel culture. Conservatives lost their shit when the cast of Princess Bride did a reading fund raiser for democrats.

 

See also the career of Colin Kaepernick for taking the knee and The Chicks (previously The Dixie Chicks) for criticising George Bush.

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  • 10 months later...

I'm a little disappointed with Eurogamer giving Moriarty coverage. He seems like an absolutely rotten individual and I don't think his track record with this sort of thing is anything special. 

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1 hour ago, bear said:

I'm a little disappointed with Eurogamer giving Moriarty coverage. He seems like an absolutely rotten individual and I don't think his track record with this sort of thing is anything special. 

 

I disagree with him on some of his political beliefs, as I expect many people on here do, but "absolutely rotten individual" is a bit harsh.  I'd class him as a mild conservative, hardly some rabid right-winger.  He's got some good industry contacts and isn't really in the scoops game, so whilst I wouldn't take this as 100%, I doubt he'd say it without good reason.

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3 hours ago, Sixkiller said:

 

I disagree with him on some of his political beliefs, as I expect many people on here do, but "absolutely rotten individual" is a bit harsh.  I'd class him as a mild conservative, hardly some rabid right-winger.  He's got some good industry contacts and isn't really in the scoops game, so whilst I wouldn't take this as 100%, I doubt he'd say it without good reason.

 

To a rabid left-winger 'mild conservative' = actual Nazi.

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7 hours ago, Unofficial Who said:

I really feel for the people developing this and watching large numbers of the fanbase drop away with every JK tweet. This should have been a licence to print money.

 

I very much doubt this has anything to do with JK Rowling and a lot more to do with being in standard development hell. 

 

Not convinced the Harry Potter juggernaut has really been stopped by some JK Rowling tweets. She's unpopular with the left but there's scant evidence it's lost a large number of fans.

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1 minute ago, kensei said:

 

I very much doubt this has anything to do with JK Rowling and a lot more to do with being in standard development hell. 

 

Not convinced the Harry Potter juggernaut has really been stopped by some JK Rowling tweets. She's unpopular with the left but there's scant evidence it's lost a large number of fans.

I don't have access to Rowling's bank account statements, I'm sure she's still doing just fine, but if we count the core HP audience as being those kids who grew up with the books and films and were on fansites and writing fan fiction and God knows what, there are loads of that generation (my kids generation) who feel hurt and betrayed by Rowling's TERFery.

 

It's like when our childhood was ruined by some bad Star Wars prequel but as if George Lucas was encouraging people to yell hate speech through our letterboxes and led a public campaign against our right to exist. Such a pity that someone in her position went down this path. The things that are important to you as a child remain with you forever, so to have that tainted in such an important way must be rotten for them.

 

Walt Disney and Roald Dahl also had some abhorrent beliefs, so maybe the work will survive it long term, but for this generation it's been a big deal IMO.

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Yes, I think at our middle-aged demographic, the trans debate ends up echoing other left/right splits to an extent, but in her core demographic of people 20-25 years younger than me it's much more universal that they disagree with her. I think, to generalise a little, the younger generation are much more of a single bloc on this. Which is why there's such a battle anyway. I don't imagine she's going to feel that in her wallet at all, but I think Potter as a franchise is tainted.

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Yes, I don't think TERFery is a left-right issue exactly. There are plenty of progressives of my generation who are TERFs (in my mind I'm thinking of Helen Lewis, who I used to enjoy on the New Statesman podcast but there are many others). If anything I'd say left-wing people of my generation are quite susceptible to the arguments about protecting rights for cis women. As you say, my sense is also that the younger generation looks at this quite differently.

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I think it also is based on location - in the US the condemnation is fairly universal, it seems to me, but over here basically the whole media has the exact same viewpoint, so there's much less of a sense of calling her out and a lot more in the way of defense if you look online.

 

There's a reason certain corners of the internet are nicknaming us "TERF island"

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I may have said this already upthread, but: this will keep getting delayed to 12 months + away, until there's a new boss at WB's games division, at which point it will be quietly canned as part of a review of the current slate. It's being made someone else's problem.

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1 hour ago, Graham S said:

I don't have access to Rowling's bank account statements, I'm sure she's still doing just fine, but if we count the core HP audience as being those kids who grew up with the books and films and were on fansites and writing fan fiction and God knows what, there are loads of that generation (my kids generation) who feel hurt and betrayed by Rowling's TERFery.

 

It's like when our childhood was ruined by some bad Star Wars prequel but as if George Lucas was encouraging people to yell hate speech through our letterboxes and led a public campaign against our right to exist. Such a pity that someone in her position went down this path. The things that are important to you as a child remain with you forever, so to have that tainted in such an important way must be rotten for them.

 

Walt Disney and Roald Dahl also had some abhorrent beliefs, so maybe the work will survive it long term, but for this generation it's been a big deal IMO.

 

"Loads" could be a million people and not put that much dent in Harry Potter's popularity. When Universal rip out Harry Potter rides and HBO aren't running reunion specials I will be less sceptical. If you are in a left wing echo chamber she's the worst, but I'm not sure how far it goes into the wider world. The actual UK polling on trans issues is complicated has a very great deal of scepticism reflected in it, for a start. I'm not saying there won't be a hit, but I don't think it's the scale suggested here yet, anyway.

 

The next generation might find Harry Potter desperately uncool -it happens - but I think a lot depends on the quality of any films and related media more than anything.

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57 minutes ago, RubberJohnny said:

I think it also is based on location - in the US the condemnation is fairly universal, it seems to me, but over here basically the whole media has the exact same viewpoint, so there's much less of a sense of calling her out and a lot more in the way of defense if you look online.

 

The condemnation is universal in the US *on the left*. If it goes full culture war Fox will have 24/7 boosters for Harry Potter to stick it to the left. Not what she'd want to happen at all, trans views not withstanding, but more than enough for this game to be a big hit.  

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Just now, kensei said:

 

"Loads" could be a million people and not put that much dent in Harry Potter's popularity. When Universal rip out Harry Potter rides and HBO aren't running reunion specials I will be less sceptical. If you are in a left wing echo chamber she's the worst, but I'm not sure how far it goes into the wider world. The actual UK polling on trans issues is complicated has a very great deal of scepticism reflected in it, for a start. I'm not saying there won't be a hit, but I don't think it's the scale suggested here yet, anyway.

 

The next generation might find Harry Potter desperately uncool -it happens - but I think a lot depends on the quality of any films and related media more than anything.

I'm not trying to argue with you about absolute numbers of who cares and who doesn't and how that might affect balance sheets of multimedia conglomerates. I don't care about this game, it's not important. I'm just saying that my impression is that a significant section of the fanbase were hurt and alienated by her actions and I think that's a real shame.

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2 hours ago, Graham S said:

I'm not trying to argue with you about absolute numbers of who cares and who doesn't and how that might affect balance sheets of multimedia conglomerates. I don't care about this game, it's not important. I'm just saying that my impression is that a significant section of the fanbase were hurt and alienated by her actions and I think that's a real shame.

 

I'm not trying to argue with absolute numbers, merely illustrate a point.  The original statement was that "I feel for the developers, the fanbase is dropping away with every tweet."

 

I genuinely don't think that's the case, and I think the franchise is still an absolute juggernaut. A good game will sell bucket loads and if it fails it's on them. It's certainly possible to fail with a popular franchise - Avengers being a very recent example you'd have thought it was hard to screw up.

 

There's definitely a section of the fanbase that is alienated, and it's a shame they were hurt but I reckon people here are overestimating the size of that because the vast majority of people do not pay attention to Twitter and arguments. 

 

Could be wrong - maybe it'll penetrate due to the amount of media people speaking out, but I think the bigger thing that case would be the next generation "God, why is my mum putting what Hogwarts House she's in on Facebook. It's so sad". 

 

Personally, my favourite thing about rllmuk is watching the usual left wing posters going straight for the man as soon as anything even mildly different enters  their epistemic bubble. I must resist the temptation to knock people off mute. 

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34 minutes ago, Festoon said:

I'm wondering how strong the Potter franchise is, tbh. I think it may have burned itself out a bit.

 

I think people underestimate shit like this. Potter is now an evergreen franchise, like Pokémon and Spider-Man. There'll be new kids to introduce to it, ones who's parents don't know what a cunt Rowling is. Or don't care. 

 

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