Hogwarts Legacy - Not as good as Dog Kid University

[thesnwmn]

2 hours ago, moosegrinder said:

I know it's not relevant to Hogwarts Legacy specifically but it does tie in to the discussion surrounding how the Harry Potter franchise beyond the books themselves fares and, well...

 

 

It's just shy of $208m worldwide which is fairly catastrophic ten days into release 

 

 

Isn't this just because all the Fantastic Bears films have been terrible?

 

The die hard potter fans have been to see it on release. No one else cares that it even exists do they. It doesn't contain any of the original series characters. I think to most people Harry Potter is just that... The story of Harry and friends, not the wider wizarding world.

 

Plus I cannot really imagine most people have any real idea about JKR's bullshit and if they do they're not really paying any attention or knowing that it's ongoing (it's just a very occasional news story).

[moosegrinder]

I think it'd be daft to exclude the fact Rowling is a very prominent transphobe and had made a lot of noise in places where young people spend a lot of time.

 

Though it had to be said if the diminishing returns of the second film is anything to go by then this will take about 400/500m. I do think a line can be drawn between Rowling's fuckery and the decline in popularity of major franchise vehicles though. Especially seeing as quality of said vehicles means precisely fuck all in how much money they take.

[Strafe]

I haven’t seen the third one yet but I thought the first two were pretty good.
 

Alongside Rowling’s recent commentary I don’t think that sacking Johnny Depp helped the numbers.

[thesnwmn]

1 hour ago, moosegrinder said:

I think it'd be daft to exclude the fact Rowling is a very prominent transphobe and had made a lot of noise in places where young people spend a lot of time.

 

Though it had to be said if the diminishing returns of the second film is anything to go by then this will take about 400/500m. I do think a line can be drawn between Rowling's fuckery and the decline in popularity of major franchise vehicles though. Especially seeing as quality of said vehicles means precisely fuck all in how much money they take.

 

I wouldn't exclude it but I'd be surprised if it's the biggest factor honestly. Are Harry potter theme parks and attractions massively down on visitors? Is HP merchandise down in a way other than could reasonably chartered against "years since the book and main film series was released"?

 

Annocdottaly I don't feel like Rowling being a raving and disgusting human being ever gets mentioned by anyone in my non-online life. I mean there's not a lot of reason for Potter to come up at all these days as I think most of the world has started to move on. But still, when it does people don't seem to mention it. Just that they saw the first FB film and didn't like it.

 

I'm just not sure from my experience anyone was or has maintained an interest in the wizarding world beyond the core story. Yes it was huge. Obviously. But I think anything beyond that core 7 book story is more huge corporations trying to build something like Star Wars to fund them for decades to come rather than a proof it will stick. To me Fantastic Beasts is the ultimate proof of that. But I imagine the transphobe stuff has fueled it too, as well as creating some doubt in the corporate types about funding it going forward.

[moosegrinder]

Its fair. It's just that there's an audience beyond the original readers. My mates 9 year old daughter is entirely hung up on Harry potter. She went nuts for the studio tour, went weekend one for the new film. She's 'immune' to Rowling's fuckery. She doesn't know because it's not in her sphere of influence.

 

I dunno. I don't think this a binary or absolute thing. There's so many factors into it. If it fails it could be because of Rowling or because the Venn diagram of Potter fans and video games don't fall over each other. I just think Rowling being the cunt she is had more of an affect that either we can quantify. Especially for a forum full of middle aged men that have no clue about the current gaming landscape as it is 😛

[footle]

17 minutes ago, moosegrinder said:

Its fair. It's just that there's an audience beyond the original readers. My mates 9 year old daughter is entirely hung up on Harry potter. She went nuts for the studio tour, went weekend one for the new film. She's 'immune' to Rowling's fuckery. She doesn't know because it's not in her sphere of influence.

yeah but that might be because the studio tour is genuinely good, far more so than the set of eight films, and hilariously so more than the fantastic beasts films (of which I liked the first, and thought the second was shit). And also really showed craft that had sod all to do with Rowling.

[Captain Kelsten]

My wife is a huge Harry Potter fan, but even she thinks the fantastic beasts films are shit. 

[moosegrinder]

Fair enough. It's probably completely academic. Just thought it was relevant.

 

[Nick R]

1 hour ago, thesnwmn said:

I'm just not sure from my experience anyone was or has maintained an interest in the wizarding world beyond the core story. Yes it was huge. Obviously. But I think anything beyond that core 7 book story is more huge corporations trying to build something like Star Wars to fund them for decades to come rather than a proof it will stick. To me Fantastic Beasts is the ultimate proof of that.

 

The Harry Potter and the Cursed Child play has been extremely successful (and so has its published script). You could certainly view its creation as a cynical, calculated move by Rowling herself to try and keep the brand relevant, but I don't think it was a big corporation pushing for it to be made. (WB weren't involved in it, at least - though I'm sure Scholastic were pleased to be able to publish the script.)

 

Anecdotally, I get the impression that although the play was polarising among Harry Potter fans, it was generally better-received than the three Fantastic Beasts films have been.

[Petrousgyre]

15 minutes ago, Nick R said:

The Harry Potter and the Cursed Child play has been extremely successful (and so has its published script). You could certainly view its creation as a cynical, calculated move by Rowling herself to try and keep the brand relevant, but I don't think it was a big corporation pushing for it to be made.

A good mate of my wife is in the play. Apparently the production is extremely switched on to issues surrounding race and gender - colour blind casting, preferred pronouns have to be stated and used without exception and no unwarranted touching whatsoever. Even in the relatively progressive world of theatre it’s seen as unusually switched on to these issues - my wife’s friend is pretty certain it’s a result of the production trying to counteract any negative association with Rowling.

[Captain Kelsten]

Remember all the shit the play got when the original actor playing Hermoine was revealed to be — SHOCK HORROR — black. Harry Potter fans aren’t all innocent when it comes to being bigoted shitebags. 

[dreamylittledream]

1 hour ago, petrolgirls said:

A good mate of my wife is in the play. Apparently the production is extremely switched on to issues surrounding race and gender - colour blind casting, preferred pronouns have to be stated and used without exception and no unwarranted touching whatsoever. Even in the relatively progressive world of theatre it’s seen as unusually switched on to these issues - my wife’s friend is pretty certain it’s a result of the production trying to counteract any negative association with Rowling.

Cursed Child opened in 2016 with colour blind casting from the start which is about 4 years before Rowling started making any gender comments so I doubt there’s any direct connection there.

 

I also strongly suspect that when/if they make a movie of Cursed Child (strongly suspect that’s inevitable) it will still make all the money.  Especially if they get the original cast.

 

FB was always a spin off which never match the parent  franchise and also has been significantly hampered by being pretty rubbish even for die hard fans.

 

Cursed Child is also brilliant fwiw

[dreamylittledream]

2 hours ago, Doctor Shark said:

Remember all the shit the play got when the original actor playing Hermoine was revealed to be — SHOCK HORROR — black. Harry Potter fans aren’t all innocent when it comes to being bigoted shitebags. 

C/f the recent fury over casting a Black Death in Netflix’s Sandman adaptions.

 

There are plenty of awful geeks too…

[Fry Crayola]

6 hours ago, thesnwmn said:

the Fantastic Bears films

 

I'd much rather watch this.

[Petrousgyre]

23 minutes ago, dreamylittledream said:

Cursed Child opened in 2016 with colour blind casting from the start which is about 4 years before Rowling started making any gender comments so I doubt there’s any direct connection there.

Sure, Rowling doesn’t have an issue with race though (the house-elves issue notwithstanding). She strongly defended the casting of Hermione in the play. The pronouns preference is much more recent though. My point was more that the production is keen to be seen on the right side of history, in a similar way to how the game lets you choose a trans-inclusive character. Admittedly it wasn’t the clearest way to make that point. 

[Festoon]

Dudes the films are shit because Rowling is the screenwriter and, well she can't screenwrite for shit.

 

She writes for screen like she's writing a novel - they are completely different and, well, she ain't got it.

[nakamura]

Yep. I still love HP, it comforts me when I'm sick and I'm reading them now in hospital. But Rowling has caused damage in terms of herself and her writing. The second beast film wasn't good at all. The first was actually quite good I thought though. 

She just seems to be stuck down a weird rabbit hole. I get what she wants but she's hurting the wrong people to get it. 

[thesnwmn]

50 minutes ago, Festoon said:

Dudes the films are shit because Rowling is the screenwriter and, well she can't screenwrite for shit.

 

She writes for screen like she's writing a novel - they are completely different and, well, she ain't got it.

 

Honestly I'm not that convinced she can write a great novel either.

 

She built a great story set in an interesting world. But my god I think at times it's a struggle to read. The early books are imo quite poorly written. Maybe they reflect the target age group in being very simple and that's fine but they're just very stilted. The later books improve as the children aged and the audience widened.

 

And the films are similar. Fucking terrible for the first few rising to better later on.

[Festoon]

5 minutes ago, thesnwmn said:

 

Honestly I'm not that convinced she can write a great novel either.

 

She built a great story set in an interesting world. But my god I think at times it's a struggle to read. The early books are imo quite poorly written. Maybe they reflect the target age group in being very simple and that's fine but they're just very stilted. The later books improve as the children aged and the audience widened.

 

And the films are similar. Fucking terrible for the first few rising to better later on.

 

I've only seen the first two. One is a mess but has a long winded structure. Two is an utter disaster. Nothing is leading anywhere, too many characters acting without motivation, no actual leads. Awful.

[BigShimmeryWall]

4 hours ago, Doctor Shark said:

Remember all the shit the play got when the original actor playing Hermoine was revealed to be — SHOCK HORROR — black. Harry Potter fans aren’t all innocent when it comes to being bigoted shitebags. 

Yeah, the reasons people were actually complaining about the casting were horrible. From a story point of view, one thing always struck me with a black Hermione though. If you then picture book Hermione being black, it makes for quite a different vibe to the already sketchy plotline where everyone keeps telling Hermione to fuck off and stop complaining that slavery is bad.

[Captain Kelsten]

5 minutes ago, BigShimmeryWall said:

Yeah, the reasons people were actually complaining about the casting were horrible. From a story point of view, one thing always struck me with a black Hermione though. If you then picture book Hermione being black, it makes for quite a different vibe to the already sketchy plotline where everyone keeps telling Hermione to fuck off and stop complaining that slavery is bad.

Oh fuck, yeah

[Luseth]

9 hours ago, thesnwmn said:

 

Honestly I'm not that convinced she can write a great novel either.

 

She built a great story set in an interesting world. But my god I think at times it's a struggle to read. The early books are imo quite poorly written. Maybe they reflect the target age group in being very simple and that's fine but they're just very stilted. The later books improve as the children aged and the audience widened.

 

And the films are similar. Fucking terrible for the first few rising to better later on.

 

I always thought that was the point, when I read the first book (or rather was read it by our teacher) I was in year 3 at school, the books sort of grew with my age bracket and by the end it was like reading an adults book.

 

I have never once been back to the early books because they are read much more like children's books.

[b00dles]

The later books get ludicrously bloated as I seem to remember their being a fall out with her editor or some such. Either way, they're unnecessarily long winded for very little extra info and it also ruins the pace of them. 

[Captain Kelsten]

I’ve often thought she had some great ideas and great stories but wasn’t always successful at translating that to the page. As mentioned the early ones are particularly ropey; they read like a GCSE student’s coursework but despite that they still manage to convey the story in an engaging way. 

[nakamura]

I enjoy even the early books because it's just like being at school. Cheeky replies to teachers, stretching the rules to the limit. It's not Shakespeare but it's all very relatable. 

[Twinbee]

On 24/04/2022 at 16:43, moosegrinder said:

I dunno. I don't think this a binary or absolute thing.

JKR does tho. 

[Unofficial Who]

On 25/04/2022 at 16:50, Luseth said:

 

I always thought that was the point, when I read the first book (or rather was read it by our teacher) I was in year 3 at school, the books sort of grew with my age bracket and by the end it was like reading an adults book.

 

I have never once been back to the early books because they are read much more like children's books.

 

I always thought that was incredibly clever with the early books. They grew with the reader. It's a bit more difficult now that all the books are out but it might still be a useful reading tool for the really involved to up their reading game.

 

I think the later books really suffered from her obviously racing the movies in much the same way as George RR Martin....didn't I guess? So they felt a bit more rushed with more plot holes as a result.

[TehStu]

Reading the first Potter book to my kids became a tradition (especially as dad can do the accents), but bittersweet by the time I got to my youngest kiddo. However, we've pivoted to the Percy Jackson series for bedtime reading and he's loving Greek mythology. 

 

Just in case any parents here are looking for alternatives. 

[Gambit]

1 hour ago, TehStu said:

Reading the first Potter book to my kids became a tradition (especially as dad can do the accents), but bittersweet by the time I got to my youngest kiddo. However, we've pivoted to the Percy Jackson series for bedtime reading and he's loving Greek mythology. 

 

Just in case any parents here are looking for alternatives. 

 

Also a good alternative because there's a Disney+ series in production.

[b00dles]

The movies for percy Jackson are a bit poop though.