Xbox Series X | S

[Jg15]

Talking about oldish games I'm currently playing, and enjoying, Assassin's Creed 2 (as part of the Ezio Collection) and the wonderful FPS boost.

 

What is crazy is that I last played this game over 11 years ago and yet it still feels fresh and a joy to play, especially over the more recent entries. Sure the character models are ropey (with their weird monster eyes) but the well implemented free running, entertaining missions, satisfying combat, stellar soundtrack and smaller maps make the newer games feel like a devolution.

 

Also the feeling of vertigo when climbing the inside of a Cathedral hasn't been bested.

[deerokus]

Similarly I'm playing Unity, one of the few entries I'd missed. Where it was a 24fps ish mess last gen, now it's rock solid 60.

 

The character models and detail in the world are fantastic, better than the recent games. Only 900p and it goes a bit heavy on the film grain in cutscenes, but it looks really really good. You can totally tell they were pushing the poor base consoles too hard as a result of thinking they'd be more powerful than they were. I'd love a new AC in this style. Those massive crowds brought the last gen cpus to their knees. 

[Boozy The Clown]

 

Worse than the C Bomb.

[Mortis]

If he had the Xbox set as his home machine it wouldn’t happen - typical clickbaity YouTube shite. 
 I think I’ve had an issue with the online requirements due to game sharing about twice since I owned the original Xbox one. 

[JPL]

Where do you find this shit @Boozy The Clown?

[Kevvy Metal]

2 minutes ago, JPL said:

Where do you find this shit @Boozy The Clown?

 

Modern Vintage Gamer is normally an absolutely amazing retro-tech channel. I totally love it. 

I've not yet watched the video, but I imagine he's trying to get hits off the back of the CMOS battery stuff. If it's true that he doesn't actually have his console set to "home" then he's probably deliberately being obtuse. 

[cassidy]

6 minutes ago, Kevvy Metal said:

 

Modern Vintage Gamer is normally an absolutely amazing retro-tech channel. I totally love it. 

I've not yet watched the video, but I imagine he's trying to get hits off the back of the CMOS battery stuff. If it's true that he doesn't actually have his console set to "home" then he's probably deliberately being obtuse. 

There's no probably about it. 

 

[Hitcher]

44 minutes ago, Kevvy Metal said:

If it's true that he doesn't actually have his console set to "home" then he's probably deliberately being obtuse. 

He doesn't and even says that it can fix some issues.

 

And he should know better that BC games, including Xbox One games, need to download extra files so they can run on the Series consoles under emulation.

[Rayn]

Just got a message from the shop I ordered my Xbox from. They're not getting as many as promised by MS so my order has been pushed back a couple of weeks  Seems like mid-june is the earliest possible shipping date for my new toy now...

[JPL]

44 minutes ago, Kevvy Metal said:

 

Modern Vintage Gamer is normally an absolutely amazing retro-tech channel. I totally love it. 

I've not yet watched the video, but I imagine he's trying to get hits off the back of the CMOS battery stuff. If it's true that he doesn't actually have his console set to "home" then he's probably deliberately being obtuse. 

If he’s a retro gamer it makes a bit more sense, as part of his argument seems to be around being able to use a Series X in 25 years. The way he goes about it though, by comparing it to his obviously favoured PS5, is proper clickbait bullshit. I wouldn’t even bother watching it if I were you.

[Wiper]

I mean, it's not. I watched the video yesterday and thought it was pretty fair - with the caveat that the bit where he merrily complains about things that are then fixed by switching his console to Home is dumb, and should have been cut out.

 

But his primary points — that the machines can't be activated without a connection to Live, that virtually all the "cross-gen" Xbox titles only include the Xbox One version on disc and so require a connection to Live to work, and by extension that the retail versions of games and the consoles themselves are all more or less worthless from a longterm preservation perspective — those are all valid, in exactly the same way that the "PS3/4/5 battery expiry necessitates connection to PSN" is an issue because of its consequences for longterm access to games and systems. Seems a bit weird to write it off as clickbait.

[Kryptonian]

He does seem to be setting up particular scenarios where there will be a problem but some of the issues are odd & genuine, granted. That being said, I have a series X and a series S and neither of them are set as my home console (or anyone elses) and I haven't had any issues that I can remember.

[Kevvy Metal]

8 minutes ago, Wiper said:

I mean, it's not. I watched the video yesterday and thought it was pretty fair - with the caveat that the bit where he merrily complains about things that are then fixed by switching his console to Home is dumb, and should have been cut out.

 

But his primary points — that the machines can't be activated without a connection to Live, that virtually all the "cross-gen" Xbox titles only include the Xbox One version on disc and so require a connection to Live to work, and by extension that the retail versions of games and the consoles themselves are all more or less worthless from a longterm preservation perspective — those are all valid, in exactly the same way that the "PS3/4/5 battery expiry necessitates connection to PSN" is an issue because of its consequences for longterm access to games and systems. Seems a bit weird to write it off as clickbait.

 

Yes, I've watched it and Wiper here has pretty much summed up the main point that MVG was trying to make, but I feel the MVG vid is quite a bit messy. 

Needing connected to Xbox Live the first time is absolutely true, as is the - in my opinion - futile preservation route of buy physical games for the system as they often don't even include a X|S native app anyway. There's absolutely some good points in the MVG video. 

[JPL]

12 minutes ago, Wiper said:

I mean, it's not. I watched the video yesterday and thought it was pretty fair - with the caveat that the bit where he merrily complains about things that are then fixed by switching his console to Home is dumb, and should have been cut out.

 

But his primary points — that the machines can't be activated without a connection to Live, that virtually all the "cross-gen" Xbox titles only include the Xbox One version on disc and so require a connection to Live to work, and by extension that the retail versions of games and the consoles themselves are all more or less worthless from a longterm preservation perspective — those are all valid, in exactly the same way that the "PS3/4/5 battery expiry necessitates connection to PSN" is an issue because of its consequences for longterm access to games and systems. Seems a bit weird to write it off as clickbait.

Simply because MS are committed to bringing all your games forward through each generation now. I know some of the older titles don’t work, but I can imagine pretty much everything from last and this gen will be fine. You won’t need a Series X in 25 years to play them.

 

It’s a daft argument that only looks at the negatives and doesn’t take anything else into account.

[deerokus]

I don't think it's clickbait, think he's just got himself confused. Below his usual standards. Not sure why anyone would expect the disc version of smart delivery games to have both Xbox One and Series versions on it, they're just regular blu rays (to maintain compatibility with the original Xbone) that can't hold that much data. Once everything is current gen only that won't be an issue. 

[Transient Curse]

There's a thread on Neogaf about it. I think that video has found it's audience. That is to say, people who don't have a Series X, were never going to get a Series X and are seeking reasons to say it's not very good.

[Kevvy Metal]

13 minutes ago, JPL said:

Simply because MS are committed to bringing all your games forward through each generation now. I know some of the older titles don’t work, but I can imagine pretty much everything from last and this gen will be fine. You won’t need a Series X in 25 years to play them.

 

It’s a daft argument that only looks at the negatives and doesn’t take anything else into account.

 

Yes, but MVG's point is that that's totally going by assumption. There's simply no way of knowing that in 25 years time this service will still exist. It might, it might not. 

In contrast to this, I was recently playing Luigi's Mansion that I imported day one along with my US GameCube. It all still works, and looks amazing with my RetroTink 5x (blatant 5x flex).  

[Transient Curse]

16 minutes ago, Kevvy Metal said:

 

Yes, but MVG's point is that that's totally going by assumption. There's simply no way of knowing that in 25 years time this service will still exist. It might, it might not. 

In contrast to this, I was recently playing Luigi's Mansion that I imported day one along with my US GameCube. It all still works, and looks amazing with my RetroTink 5x (blatant 5x flex).  

 

Every day is groundhog day. 

 

That horse bolted 15 years ago with Ps3, 360, and any system that had games that shipped needing day one patches.  I'm not saying it's a good thing, but it's a bit like saying lamenting how supermarkets are where people buy food rather than going to lots of individual specialists. Some still remain but it's just not how things generally are anymore.

 

EDIT: Sorry, that sounds more harsh than I intended it to (which was not at all), I'm just surprised that we're still having this conversation. 

[JPL]

1 minute ago, Kevvy Metal said:

 

Yes, but MVG's point is that that's totally going by assumption. There's simply no way of knowing that in 25 years time this service will still exist. It might, it might not. 

In contrast to this, I was recently playing Luigi's Mansion that I imported day one along with my US GameCube. It all still works, and looks amazing with my RetroTink 5x (blatant 5x flex).  

True. Maybe it’s something that a lot of people want. I can’t say it’s something that’s ever bothered me or will in the future. I’m obviously not his target audience. 🤷‍♂️ 

[Kevvy Metal]

35 minutes ago, Wahwah* said:

 

Every day is groundhog day. 

 

That horse bolted 15 years ago with Ps3, 360, and any system that had games that shipped needing day one patches.  I'm not saying it's a good thing, but it's a bit like saying lamenting how supermarkets are where people buy food rather than going to lots of individual specialists. Some still remain but it's just not how things generally are anymore.

 

EDIT: Sorry, that sounds more harsh than I intended it to (which was not at all), I'm just surprised that we're still having this conversation. 

 

I actually totally agree with you. The crusade that a lot of the YouTube community - like DF Retro, MLiG - for keeping everything physical and absolutely buying everything physical for modern games is - imo - completely and utterly futile. It's a tide of change that you can not over-power and we are moving to a fully digital distribution solution whether people like it or not. You can always vote with your wallet, but I don't think that will get anyone very far. The fact that these physical games are basically often incomplete builds, offer up something that I'd usually not even want to play in a hypothetical future scenario where an update server is turned off and all I have is an offline machine and a disc.  

[MattyP]

1 hour ago, Kevvy Metal said:

 

I actually totally agree with you. The crusade that a lot of the YouTube community - like DF Retro, MLiG - for keeping everything physical and absolutely buying everything physical for modern games is - imo - completely and utterly futile. It's a tide of change that you can not over-power and we are moving to a fully digital distribution solution whether people like it or not. You can always vote with your wallet, but I don't think that will get anyone very far. The fact that these physical games are basically often incomplete builds, offer up something that I'd usually not even want to play in a hypothetical future scenario where an update server is turned off and all I have is an offline machine and a disc.  

Physical games have been practically dead on the PC since more-or-less the introduction of Steam which was back in 2004. I can still play my PC content I bought back in 2004. That was 17 years ago. Not really worried about getting to my Xbox content in 25 years. I expect MS will protect their investment for future generations as Valve have with Steam.

 

If the companies disappear people will be able to preserve them digitally somehow/way. Looks at my MAME games on my PC. In the end it is what it is. We can complain as much as we want but when a majority have no issues with things as they are you will change nothing. GamePass has been key to moving people onto the digital distribution model for MS IMHO.

 

Its odd really as we feel a sense of ownership when we have a physical thing. But in terms of games we own nothing but the license and not the content. The disk is just another distribution channel. Anyway just going to enjoy the games now myself and not worry so much about the future. 

[AlexM]

MVG seemed very lost in that video, he didn’t seem to understand the concepts of what he was talking about, and the comparison to the PS5 was similarly misguided. 
 

His videos are generally an enjoyable watch, but he doesn’t always get it right. I remember the video talking about coil whine being related to fan motors, in a way that suggested he knew what he was talking about.. 

[Dudley]

9 hours ago, Wahwah* said:

 

Every day is groundhog day. 

 

That horse bolted 15 years ago with Ps3, 360, and any system that had games that shipped needing day one patches.  I'm not saying it's a good thing, but it's a bit like saying lamenting how supermarkets are where people buy food rather than going to lots of individual specialists. Some still remain but it's just not how things generally are anymore.

 

EDIT: Sorry, that sounds more harsh than I intended it to (which was not at all), I'm just surprised that we're still having this conversation. 

 

Yep, physical games have been dead for a generation, the only current gen system that can make any sort of claim to have physical games as we traditionally understand them is the Evercade and even then there's at least one game that's hilariously bad without a system firmware update. (Although at least that won't require you have the cart).

[AlexM]

12 minutes ago, Dudley said:

 

Yep, physical games have been dead for a generation, the only current gen system that can make any sort of claim to have physical games as we traditionally understand them is the Evercade and even then there's at least one game that's hilariously bad without a system firmware update. (Although at least that won't require you have the cart).

 

The Switch? I plugged in Hades a few days ago and it just worked, no internet connection or patching required. 

[MattyP]

Just now, AlexM said:

 

The Switch? I plugged in Hades a few days ago and it just worked, no internet connection or patching required. 

For the most part yes. I think even the Switch has games that are part complete and need a download due to limited cart sizes/ cost. Think BioShock collection was one example.

[Alex W.]

They’re very much the exception though.

[ulala]

59 minutes ago, Dudley said:

 

Yep, physical games have been dead for a generation, the only current gen system that can make any sort of claim to have physical games as we traditionally understand them is the Evercade and even then there's at least one game that's hilariously bad without a system firmware update. (Although at least that won't require you have the cart).

they were dead from the time you could patch games online - so 360/ ps3 era. The discs just became keys to unlock the game.

 

The Evercade is not a true maskrom cart system, just files on an sd card loaded into an emulator. They got lucky and had the patch the whole system to even get it working well after it shipped.
 

I don’t think that counts 

 

 

[Lorfarius]

2 hours ago, ulala said:

they got lucky and had the patch the whole system to even get it working well after it shipped.

 

I don’t think that counts 

 

 

 

It worked just fine from the off, this is silly and you are embellishing what happened. Some units had problems like all systems do and patches came but it certainly wasn't broken at launch. 

[Dudley]

10 hours ago, AlexM said:

 

The Switch? I plugged in Hades a few days ago and it just worked, no internet connection or patching required. 

 

Better than any other machine but still barely.

 

Bioshock, borderlands etc are the obvious ones but what's on your Animal Crossing cart is at this point about 10% of the game.

 

Also if the Switch counts as a current gen system, the Evercade does. They are both systems being sold now, getting new dedicated releases and are underpowered by a factor of generations of the big boy consoles.

[Lorfarius]

Sadly the Evercade doesn't have something as awesome as Maneater. What a game!