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Anyone who thinks MS will prioritise frame rate after the rubbing Halo Infinite got are out of their mind. Sony will be in the exact same boat. 


Best case scenario will be options - and I honestly hate graphical options in games. I just want the developers to decide what's best for the system I have, and the game they are trying to design. I don't want the first few moments of every game being an internal evaluation of the graphical settings. That way digital foundry madness lies.

 

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I don't mind settings in games, so long as each of the settings don't feel like awful compromises. Games like Monster Hunter World have 3 or 4 graphical options and none of them are really optimal.

 

If the options are "awful image quality, decent framerate" and "decent image quality, awful framerate," I'd rather you just didn't bother and focused on one mode that looks respectable enough and runs at a consistent framerate.

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1 hour ago, BarryL85 said:

 

Please if you could, explain in detail what the difference will be between a last gen game and a next gen game will be? 

 

You can exclude ray tracing from the explanation as that is an easy answer as the last gen hardware couldn't support it. Also on RT not all developers will choose to use it as it is very demanding on the hardware and they may choose to exclude it in favour of greater resolution, fidelity and frame rate.

 

"Please explain the difference between vegetarians and carnivores.  You can exclude eating meat from the explanation as that's an easy answer as the vegetarians can't eat it"

 

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Carnivores don't really eat anything except meat, so by your (extremely flawed) logic, not only is any game without Ray Tracing not next gen, but next gen games are nothing except a screen full of Ray Tracing. 

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4 minutes ago, Dudley said:

 

"Please explain the difference between vegetarians and carnivores.  You can exclude eating meat from the explanation as that's an easy answer as the vegetarians can't eat it"

 

 

Completely redundant analogy. You are basically saying ray tracing is the only thing that makes next gen "next gen".

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50 minutes ago, Freeman said:

 

If she expects it to last 10 years with no IR then I'm not all that sure how happy she'll be...

Seems to be plenty of folk reporting issues with the C8 / 2018 model after 2.5 years of about 3 or 4 hours daily use, and the surprising thing being it's not just gamine. The Netflix logo being one I was reading about yesterday...

 

I'd love one, but with an hour or so of Gran Turismo Sport with it's bright white HUD glowing away each day, I'm not going near one...


check out rtings long term tests, IR isn’t an issue in general esp on games - static logos on news sites are the last ‘concern’ and even then you have to be silly for it to be an issue.

 

My B8 had thousands of hours gaming and general use - it was practically on all day for one reason or another and no issues. I had plasmas from the start and OLED and never had issues with any of them.

 

Oddly I get temp IR on the LG lcd we have at the moment, it does go but it’s the first time I’ve even IR in over 15 years of plasma / OLED use!

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Is it too soon to start talking about our preorders and stop bickering about nothing?

 

I'll start. I have a preorder with Argos but the order status hasn't changed since 22nd September. Do we have any idea if they know their allocation yet or when they might be letting people know??? Do I just wait until 9th November and hope they post it so I get it on the 10th???

 

What about you? Leave a like and let us know your questions in the comments below.

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Just now, Shimmyhill said:


check out rtings long term tests, IR isn’t an issue in general esp on games - static logos on news sites are the last ‘concern’ and even then you have to be silly for it to be an issue.

 

My B8 had thousands of hours gaming and general use - it was practically on all day for one reason or another and no issues. I had plasmas from the start and OLED and never had issues with any of them.

 

Oddly I get temp IR on the LG lcd we have at the moment, it does go but it’s the first time I’ve even IR in over 15 years of plasma / OLED use!

 

Pixel wear is very real, though, and that bright white HUD will likely cause uneven wear and what effectively looks like IR on his screen.

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5 minutes ago, Count Buffalos said:

I'd agree with that. It doesn't help that there's the usual over-inflated expectations about what the new consoles will / won't be able to do as well, whipped up by marketing. Same story every time. 

It is very simple if you ask me: modern consoles are the perfect blend between the power of a respectable PC and the user experience and convenience of your mobile device. They are a great middle ground. 

 

For $499 you have a AMD Ryzen 3700x-ish CPU and Nvidia RTX2080-ish GPU with 16GB RAM, an 1TB Solid State NVME drive bundled with HDMI cable and controller. It will be fast, cool and quiet. You can control it completely with your controller, a media remote and it is great for co-op couch gaming and it has integrated communication (e.g. voice and party chat, parties, matchmaking) across the entire platform/ecosystem. 

 

A similar PC will cost you $1.000-1.500 and won't be as convenient for most living room use cases.

 

Next-generation??? Virtual and Augmented Reality when it becomes usable and widespread, stuff that Stadia has promised but didn't deliver yet, playing battles with 1.000 real players, connecting the worlds of different games in a metaverse etc. Definitely not fancier graphics or ray-tracing. The PS4/XBO generation did deliver nothing spectacular that PS3/360 couldn't with slightly less graphical fidelity besides PlayStation VR. 

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5 minutes ago, hereticboy said:

Is it too soon to start talking about our preorders and stop bickering about nothing?

 

I'll start. I have a preorder with Argos but the order status hasn't changed since 22nd September. Do we have any idea if they know their allocation yet or when they might be letting people know??? Do I just wait until 9th November and hope they post it so I get it on the 10th???

 

What about you? Leave a like and let us know your questions in the comments below.

 

I've gone with Argos and not heard nowt but it's weeks away still. It'll either be fine or it won't, I'm not worried about it. Kinda still wishing I'd gone with an X rather than an S, mind. Not enough to travel to New Bumptonshire for a forumites spare though :P

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Interview with Phill Spencer on Stratechery. I subscribe to this site and it and is not publicly available. Here's two snippets:

 

Quote

That leads to a second question: where does gaming fit in Microsoft? Microsoft has had this shift under Satya to being much more of a pure play enterprise company, I think very successfully. The consumer businesses are still there, but definitely not quite as featured — one of the things that I’ve written a lot about at Stratechery is how the Windows team has been split up and moved down in the priority stack. In that context, where does gaming fit?

 

PS: I think gaming has seen a real rise under Satya inside the company. I report to Satya, I think gaming for really the first time that I can think of inside the company is part of our earnings calls, it’s part of our strategy discussions, I sit in every senior leadership team meeting the company has every Friday as we’re going through the company’s strategy. When Satya and I are talking about it, at the core we understand the need for Microsoft to have strong engagement with consumers, it’s just important to the long-term success of the company. Gaming is a massive market. Three billion people play video games, $200 billion top line revenue when you look at the gaming business, both of those growing by double digits. Globally, nearly half of the world plays video games. It’s a category that we have presence in, we have history, and we have capability. Relative to some of Microsoft’s big tech competitors, it’s a unique differentiator for us, the fact that we do have a history in gaming. We challenged ourselves a few years ago to realize the full potential of that and how can Microsoft help Xbox and our gaming ambitions grow to the level that they should. I think that’s the journey that we’re on.

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That’s interesting, you mentioned a few years ago, there’s a lot in there. You mentioned you go to these strategic meetings, which implies that maybe Xbox wasn’t at the strategic meetings previously and then you mentioned that there’s a shift in priority and wanting to expand this and blow it out. When did this happen? Was this after the last generation when you took over the team or is that something that predated you?

 

PS: I would say it was after I took over this job, I took over this job, six years ago in 2014. Man, that’s a long time. And I reported into the Windows division at that point. We looked at gaming as part of our WDG to use our internal acronyms, our Windows division priorities. I reported to Terry Myerson along with my peers, that would have been Panos [Panay] running Surface and people building the Windows operating system. And it was three-and-a-half years ago that we made the decision that we should make gaming a top level function in the company, something that the company wants to focus on and Satya put it to me and challenged me in the right way. He said, “For years we’ve thought about how gaming can help Microsoft and I want to turn that around and actually think about how Microsoft can help us succeed in gaming.” Instead of everything we’re doing pivoting on some strategy that Microsoft has and how does gaming help us accelerate a Microsoft strategy, actually talking about and realizing gaming as a top level strategy for Microsoft and what are the assets that Microsoft has that can help us differentiate in the gaming market itself?

 

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1 hour ago, Freeman said:

 

If she expects it to last 10 years with no IR then I'm not all that sure how happy she'll be...

Seems to be plenty of folk reporting issues with the C8 / 2018 model after 2.5 years of about 3 or 4 hours daily use, and the surprising thing being it's not just gamine. The Netflix logo being one I was reading about yesterday...

 

I'd love one, but with an hour or so of Gran Turismo Sport with it's bright white HUD glowing away each day, I'm not going near one...


Can’t say that I’ve had noticed any issues with my 3 year old B7 so far.

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Some more interesting quotes from the interview regarding Series S and All Access:

Quote

You’ve talked about the Series S expanding the market, and I’m curious what you think is going to have a bigger impact? Is it going to be the fact that you have a lower price console from day one or that it’s available via this subscription pricing? I think it’s $25 a month to get that out there. I know you experimented with this pricing in the latter years of the current generation, and based on that, I’m curious, how much of an impact do you think that’s going to have? Or is the real expansion just going to be, hey, $300, you can get a current generation?

 

PS: I’m a huge believer in what Xbox All Access will mean. I think in launch, it’ll get muted a little bit just because there’s such a core —

The core gamers buying.

PS: Yeah, we’ll sell more Series X’s than we will Series S’s in the first few months. There’s no doubt. Those are the people that’ll line up and that’s great. We built both consoles for a reason. I wanted to start them both at the same time so that I could build one common development platform for developers, and they knew both hardware were going to be in the market and both would have volumes. Adding something like Series S a couple of years down the road, I think would have been a challenge in terms of software compatibility so I wanted to have them both at launch.

Getting All Access going, as you said, we kind of trialed it at the end of the Xbox One generation because there’s credit checks and retailer stuff that we have to do so that when you walk in, we’re integrated into their systems so that they can do all the right work that they need to do to attach that. But I love the fact that I wouldn’t call it global yet, but we’re in more markets than we’ve ever been. I’m seeing good uptake even on the pre-order where I think we have our most kind of cost unconscious customer at the beginning, our hardcore customer that wants the very best and just wants to own it outright. But I think about over the years, Xbox All Access with that content subscription is going to be just a really strong value proposition for many, many people. I believe that and we see it, you see it in the mobile business, you see it in other places.

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When it comes to Xbox All Game Pass, are you buying a console on an installment plan and you get access to all these games? Or are you subscribed to a game service with a console thrown in?

 

PS: We talk about that all the time internally — is it another tier of Game Pass? We called it Xbox All Access, but we think about it some more, is it really Xbox Game Pass Platinum, which just happens to come with the hardware? And you can even think about other models where maybe there’s even some kind of hardware guarantee down the road, we did that a little bit with Xbox One last year, where if you got in All Access, you were guaranteed to get front in line when the Series X came out. People didn’t know the name at the time, but yeah. It’s a really good question, even in our branding for it.

I think over time, I want to think about it as a tier of Game Pass, to be honest with you, because I think you’re going to see lower priced hardware as part of our ecosystem when you think about streaming sticks and other things that somebody might want to just go plug into their TV and go play via xCloud, and they’re not really interested in something, even at $25 a month, you could imagine having us even having something that we just included in the Game Pass subscription that gave you an ability to stream xCloud games to your television and buying the controller. This just goes to branding questions, I want to just think about it all as Xbox. You’re a member of Xbox and you might become a member through buying our console or playing on PC or playing on xCloud, but I want you to feel like an equal member and all of these things are accessible to you.

 

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1 hour ago, SpagMasterSwift said:

"Graphic settings"? Sheeeeeeeeet, moving that bar so the image is just about visible is more than enough already! I lie awake at night wondering if I have it at the optimum point of brightness...


great for scary games though! Whack the brightness up to full and you’ve got night vision :lol:

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Again, all of this is being tweaked and optimised ahead of launch. From our experience so far though, the Auto HDR option is by no means a one size fits all solution - but when it works, it really works. To get the most from the setting, you'll have to manually decide when to enabled it via the Xbox system options. For the future, perhaps an override option would work best when looking at your game library, to make sure it only switches on select titles. Still - it's a fascinating option to have, filling a gap for games that deserved HDR support on release and adding it convincingly to titles that predate the concept. More than that it's another reason to rediscover the Xbox's best games, bolstered and enhanced on its latest hardware - and we're looking forward to seeing more of the compatibility team's work.

 

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2 hours ago, HarryBizzle said:

 

Pixel wear is very real, though, and that bright white HUD will likely cause uneven wear and what effectively looks like IR on his screen.


It’s specifically covered in the rtings long term tests and console HUD’s are not as problematic as CNN banners!

 

All I mainly play is games with HUD’s, Fortnite mainly but lots of Battlefield and Cod and I’m aware of the potential issues but researched it enough to not be worried concerned about it.

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49 minutes ago, Shimmyhill said:


It’s specifically covered in the rtings long term tests and console HUD’s are not as problematic as CNN banners!

 

All I mainly play is games with HUD’s, Fortnite mainly but lots of Battlefield and Cod and I’m aware of the potential issues but researched it enough to not be worried concerned about it.

 

Sure, but if you are a mostly a one-game gamer, you are inevitably going to get uneven pixel wear by playing the same game all the time. Particularly if the HUD is white. If you're playing a variety of content, then I don't think it's anything to worry about at all.

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3 hours ago, MNFRMTMRRW said:

Interview with Phill Spencer on Stratechery. I subscribe to this site and it and is not publicly available. Here's two snippets:

 

 

Interesting comments, especially about how gaming now fits into the bigger MS. The difference between the One and Series X is massive and clearly as a result of this shift in thinking amongst the company.

 

As for the Game Pass stuff, I could imagine a Xbox pad + Firestick equivalent + GP sub bundle being sold for those who only want to experience stuff via xcloud.

 

I'm starting to really want an X now, even though I have a good PC and Game Pass. Getting a bit of console envy!

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When I looked into all the oled burn in stuff a couple of years ago it seems that unless you’re crazy with your brightness you shouldn’t have a problem. 
 

Most of us are geeky enough to attempt some sort of calibration and want our blacks black and turn brightness down. Playing white whitey’s white world (Trump’s fave game) in HDR with the oled light at 100 and the brightness all the way up - yeah, you’re gonna get burn in. Watching half an hour of news with an on screen clock at normal levels, not so much. 
 

In short, don’t go mental, don’t get problems. If you still do, it’s probably a faulty panel. 
 

 

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3 hours ago, Shimmyhill said:


check out rtings long term tests, IR isn’t an issue in general esp on games - static logos on news sites are the last ‘concern’ and even then you have to be silly for it to be an issue.

 

My B8 had thousands of hours gaming and general use - it was practically on all day for one reason or another and no issues. I had plasmas from the start and OLED and never had issues with any of them.

 

Oddly I get temp IR on the LG lcd we have at the moment, it does go but it’s the first time I’ve even IR in over 15 years of plasma / OLED use!

 

55 minutes ago, Shimmyhill said:


It’s specifically covered in the rtings long term tests and console HUD’s are not as problematic as CNN banners!

 

All I mainly play is games with HUD’s, Fortnite mainly but lots of Battlefield and Cod and I’m aware of the potential issues but researched it enough to not be worried concerned about it.

 

I did.  In fact it's the rtings long term tests that have put me off.

Whilst the Call of Duty TV shows no IR issues, this is clearly down to COD using transparent and grey coloured HUDs, which change position depending on the type of play  character etc.

The Fifa one however is opaque and white and transparent, much like the Gran Turismo Sport dashboard that's burnt into my old plasma TV - a game I started playing in late May. By week 12 the faint score board is starting to be visible on the red and magenta channels, and by week 20 is definetly visible.

12 weeks at 20 hours a day is a LOT of hours, but as it's cumulative, the more that particular pixel displays bright or white, the worse it'll get.

Simply put, if i'm sinking £1k+ into a TV, I'm not baby sitting it...

 

For others, this is what we're talking about...

https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/real-life-oled-burn-in-test

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15 minutes ago, Pockets said:

When I looked into all the oled burn in stuff a couple of years ago it seems that unless you’re crazy with your brightness you shouldn’t have a problem. 
 

Most of us are geeky enough to attempt some sort of calibration and want our blacks black and turn brightness down. Playing white whitey’s white world (Trump’s fave game) in HDR with the oled light at 100 and the brightness all the way up - yeah, you’re gonna get burn in. Watching half an hour of news with an on screen clock at normal levels, not so much. 
 

In short, don’t go mental, don’t get problems. If you still do, it’s probably a faulty panel. 
 

 

 

It's OLED.  You'll want the brightness right up as they don't get that bright, and it doesn't affect blacks as black is when the pixel is off, so 100% brightness.

You need brightness for better contract - e.g. HDR, and HDR means you're even more likely to have brightness as it'll make bright things brighter to make them stand out.

 

The bold bit really annoys me.  It's my TV.  If I want to play Gran Turismo Sport for 8 hours every Saturday, and an hour each night, then I don't think my TV should be the thing to stop me...

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6 minutes ago, Freeman said:

 

It's OLED.  You'll want the brightness right up as they don't get that bright, and it doesn't affect blacks as black is when the pixel is off, so 100% brightness.

You need brightness for better contract - e.g. HDR, and HDR means you're even more likely to have brightness as it'll make bright things brighter to make them stand out.

 

The bold bit really annoys me.  It's my TV.  If I want to play Gran Turismo Sport for 8 hours every Saturday, and an hour each night, then I don't think my TV should be the thing to stop me...

 

Mine is bright enough (LG CX) in the daytime in a bright livingroom at 50% brightness. As an aside, my wife doesn't know what the different TV technologies are and prefers the OLED tv to our old Samsung LCD and hasn't noticed any difference in brightness.

 

I can see your point and realistically there should be a disclaimer at point of sale with a warning. It is well documented for those that do their research that it may be an issue depending on your usage type and you do get guidelines and warnings in the box. The other thing that annoys me is extended warranties tend to shy away from the issue as well. 

 

I guess my take on it is, you are not forced into buying this technology.....yet (It is likely that it could become the industry standard technology). If you want the best picture, the best response times, refresh times you buy OLED. As long as you know going into it there is a risk. If you aren't willing to take the risk then don't buy. I took the risk, no regrets so far and is definitely the best TV i've ever owned (ask me again when I have image retention though). Don't let anyone convince you to buy until you are prepared to accept that it may happen.

 

I use my TV just like I did my LCD TV, however the fuck I want. The only exception is I do put it in standby if there is a paused screen for extended period of time or using an app or input that doesn't use the built in screensaver. There is a lot of preventative stuff in the software e.g. auto HUD/static image dimming etc to also help with image retention. 

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30 minutes ago, Freeman said:

 

It's OLED.  You'll want the brightness right up as they don't get that bright

 

Don't you currently have a plasma?

 

An OLED gets three times brighter than a plasma. They get as bright as any LCD produced three or so years ago, and only the most modern QLED TVs get brighter.

 

A C9 has a brightness of 780 nits vs. the top of the range Samsung QLED which is 1000 nits.

 

For context, your average three or four year old plasma is probably sitting at a brightness of about 150 nits.

 

Also, on the QLED you're going to have slower response times, image ghosting, and severe 'haloing' (colours bleeding into black backgrounds, which looks absolutely terrible).

 

You may also suffer backlight bleed.

 

It's not worth it for games at all.

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35 minutes ago, Freeman said:

 

It's OLED.  You'll want the brightness right up as they don't get that bright......

 

This old chestnut. It's bullshit.

 

LCDs go brighter but that doesn't make OLEDs dim.

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