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Xbox Series X | S


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12 hours ago, pulsemyne said:

CPU will be the real big difference in this machine over the xbox one X. GPU wise it will not be a huge bump but the CPU, that will be a big difference. Ryzen is a really good chip, great cheap ones and really good expensive ones. Memory will probably go to 16 gigs just for that extra bit of wiggle room over One X. SSD's are out of question as the price is still high and will likely remain so for the next few years (they haven't dropped in ages). 

SSD prices are still falling, just not as quickly as they have over the past couple of years where the price per GB has almost halved every year. Custom PCs recommended SSD in their product guide has gone from £107 to £95 over the last few issues for instance. 

 

I think we could end up with something like AMDs StoreMI where each console comes with a combination of a small SSD and a traditional hard drive to give some of the benefits of an SSD but without the massive price of a 2 or 4TB SSD. 

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At the very least run the fucking OS/dashboard from an SSD on the next-gen consoles. Even on the Xbox One X everything is so embarrassingly slooooow - especially for how powerful these consoles are supposed to be. At the very least fix THAT because it's ridiculous seeing the dash hitching all over the place and store tiles taking seconds to load if you go too quickly. It's 2018, these damn consoles can run games like The Witcher 3 - just look at those graphics! - and yet a simple dashboard is too much?

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19 hours ago, Mr. Gerbik said:

At the very least run the fucking OS/dashboard from an SSD on the next-gen consoles. Even on the Xbox One X everything is so embarrassingly slooooow

 

Not sure the drive is the issue here, the OS is loaded into RAM at startup. Xbox OS is way snappier than it was in the early days and PS4's OS is fine so it's more of a coding rather than a hardware issue I reckon.

 

To be clear: I agree the Xbox UI is still too slow, weirdly so given MS's expertise in OS's. With any luck they'll rewrite much of it for their next Xbox, and get rid of that shit tiles interface while they're at it. 

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18 hours ago, petrolgirls said:

 

Not sure the drive is the issue here, the OS is loaded into RAM at startup. Xbox OS is way snappier than it was in the early days and PS4's OS is fine so it's more of a coding rather than a hardware issue I reckon.

 

To be clear: I agree the Xbox UI is still too slow, weirdly so given MS's expertise in OS's. With any luck they'll rewrite much of it for their next Xbox, and get rid of that shit tiles interface while they're at it. 

 

I expect they'll be a lot of network dependancy on the UI for the XBO and its this that probably slows it down a little... certainly on boot until it caches all the new things....

 

I wonder if MS may go for hybrid solution with SSD/HDD combo... you can get 32GB SSD drives that you can mount to the motherboard now which can act as a nice local cache although games being as big as they are (and they are only going to get bigger) on a console don't think a large SSD is going to be a viable option. Unlikely as it is given track record but really hope they at least make the HDD user upgradable this time.

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15 minutes ago, MattyP said:

 

I expect they'll be a lot of network dependancy on the UI for the XBO and its this that probably slows it down a little... certainly on boot until it caches all the new things....

 

I wonder if MS may go for hybrid solution with SSD/HDD combo... you can get 32GB SSD drives that you can mount to the motherboard now which can act as a nice local cache although games being as big as they are (and they are only going to get bigger) on a console don't think a large SSD is going to be a viable option. Unlikely as it is given track record but really hope they at least make the HDD user upgradable this time.

 

Wasn't there a patent or some talk at least a while back around only holding the bit of the game that a player was playing from MS?   This might have turned into the fast start stuff but you COULD use something like that to just hold the relevant bits of the game plus a bit more on the SSD and the rest on the normal HDD.   Technically possible but sounds really fiddly.  Especially if you jump between 10 different games. 

 

I think there's an expectation that games will take some time to load. OS should be snappy so would make sense to sit on the SSD as well as your most used apps?

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1 minute ago, rafaqat said:

 

I think there's an expectation that games will take some time to load. OS should be snappy so would make sense to sit on the SSD as well as you most used apps?

 

Yep think this is what could happen... windows has for a while had lots of caching options eg here is one: https://www.pcworld.com/article/248828/how_to_setup_intel_smart_response_ssd_caching_technology.html

 

That uses a smallish SSD to cache most used files... I expect they could go for an extension of this since they already support it in windows and the Xbox OS will be a windows derivative....

 

Be interesting to see what they come up with.....

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19 hours ago, petrolgirls said:

To be clear: I agree the Xbox UI is still too slow, weirdly so given MS's expertise in OS's. With any luck they'll rewrite much of it for their next Xbox, and get rid of that shit tiles interface while they're at it. 

You're just exposed to more of it from the off. The new TV section is deadly slow on the PS4 (maybe network dependent, as it loads all the content available on each app), and of course getting to the store, PS+, etc. has always been slow.

 

I'm not sure they're going to change tiles, it fits in with their Win 10 stuff. What would they have instead? And how does the PS4 differ? They're all just icons, but with different layouts. 

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On 22/06/2018 at 11:59, Philly said:

What the hell are MS gonna call this thing?

 

Xbox 2?

Xbox Nexus?

Xbox Mix? 

 

They've got a horrible naming history, they paint themselves into so many corners they dont have any corners left. 

 

the might do an Apple and just go with XBOX. 

Almost right - Xbox Two

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21 hours ago, petrolgirls said:

 

Not sure the drive is the issue here, the OS is loaded into RAM at startup. Xbox OS is way snappier than it was in the early days and PS4's OS is fine so it's more of a coding rather than a hardware issue I reckon.

 

To be clear: I agree the Xbox UI is still too slow, weirdly so given MS's expertise in OS's. With any luck they'll rewrite much of it for their next Xbox, and get rid of that shit tiles interface while they're at it. 

As a simple user who has no technical knowledge of this kind of stuff, I just have to wonder: why doesn't Steam have similar issues? Their storefront shows way more titles and associated information on-screen at any one time and yet doesn't hitch and loads up all the tiles instantly. What's the difference?

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3 hours ago, MattyP said:

I wonder if MS may go for hybrid solution with SSD/HDD combo... you can get 32GB SSD drives that you can mount to the motherboard now which can act as a nice local cache although games being as big as they are (and they are only going to get bigger) on a console don't think a large SSD is going to be a viable option. Unlikely as it is given track record but really hope they at least make the HDD user upgradable this time.

 

They've provided Seagate hybrid-HDDs in the past on their premium Elite variants, is that any faster in practice? Though the flash cache is fairly small in those units and the caching algos don't seem particularly intelligent either.

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1 hour ago, TehStu said:

You're just exposed to more of it from the off. The new TV section is deadly slow on the PS4 (maybe network dependent, as it loads all the content available on each app), and of course getting to the store, PS+, etc. has always been slow.

 

You may well be right, Xbox does have more stuff exposed from the off - that being the case I'd rather the store and TV stuff was partitioned off if it's going to slow the whole OS down. I'm not sure that's all of it though, navigating non-network dependent stuff still feels noticeably laggy on Xbox in a way that PS4 and Switch doesn't.

 

 

1 hour ago, TehStu said:

I'm not sure they're going to change tiles, it fits in with their Win 10 stuff. What would they have instead? And how does the PS4 differ? They're all just icons, but with different layouts. 

 

Books are just words with different layouts, get the layout wrong and they're confusing and incoherent. The interface has been a real weakness for Xbox this gen, surprising given MS strength in this field. Tiles are best suited to small touch screen devices (Windows tiles were initially designed for the now defunct Windows Phone of course). They've pretty much stripped out tiles from Windows 10 after considerable protest to Windows 8's interface. Tiles are arguably least well suited to game controllers where lists, either horizontal or vertical, work far better.

 

This is why, in swapping from a pointer control to a d-pad, Nintendo complete changed their Wii tile interface for the Switch's horizontal list. I'm hoping MS have a similar rethink their interface next gen. 

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3 minutes ago, petrolgirls said:

 

You may well be right, Xbox does have more stuff exposed from the off - that being the case I'd rather the store and TV stuff was partitioned off if it's going to slow the whole OS down. I'm not sure that's all of it though, navigating non-network dependent stuff still feels noticeably laggy on Xbox in a way that PS4 and Switch doesn't.

 

 

 

Books are just words with different layouts, get the layout wrong and they're confusing and incoherent. The interface has been a real weakness for Xbox this gen, surprising given MS strength in this field. Tiles are best suited to small touch screen devices (Windows tiles were initially designed for the now defunct Windows Phone of course). They've pretty much stripped out tiles from Windows 10 after considerable protest to Windows 8's interface. Tiles are arguably least well suited to game controllers where lists, either horizontal or vertical, work far better.

 

This is why, in swapping from a pointer control to a d-pad, Nintendo complete changed their Wii tile interface for the Switch's horizontal list. I'm hoping MS have a similar rethink their interface next gen. 

 

Horizontal lists are fine with ten options. They’re shit with 130 options...

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Stupid question (probably)... could performance be augmented by the "Power of the cloud'(TM)?

 

Right now, cloud gaming is just streaming video, but is there potential in the future to off load certain tasks to a potentially more powerful cloud service, or does latency mean this is just not feasible.

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2 minutes ago, footle said:

 

Horizontal lists are fine with ten options. They’re shit with 130 options...

 

Consoles rarely need more than 10-15 options though. You play at most what, 5-8 games at a time, there's only a handful of options or friends online you need to access in most cases. If you need to see your whole games library you can open that up as a long list of scrollable tiles. This is exactly what the PS4 and Switch do. 

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They've gone very quiet about the advantages that Azure would bring to the Xbox, though there was a brief mention at the end of the E3 press briefing. Crackdown 3 should still be the flagship implementation, unless they quietly shelve that mode.

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6 minutes ago, hub2 said:

Stupid question (probably)... could performance be augmented by the "Power of the cloud'(TM)?

 

Right now, cloud gaming is just streaming video, but is there potential in the future to off load certain tasks to a potentially more powerful cloud service, or does latency mean this is just not feasible.

 

Titanfall purported to do this, the canon fodder UI was meant to be controlled server side. Crackdown was the game that has made the most claims for this, having calculations for lots of buildings collapsing processed in the cloud.

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41 minutes ago, petrolgirls said:

 

Consoles rarely need more than 10-15 options though. You play at most what, 5-8 games at a time, there's only a handful of options or friends online you need to access in most cases. If you need to see your whole games library you can open that up as a long list of scrollable tiles. This is exactly what the PS4 and Switch do. 

 

Neither have backwards compatibility, so I suppose that’s ok.

(because of backwards compatibility, and the likes of Rare Replay, it’s quite easy to end up with a library of 100 games+ on the Xbox, at which point the single scrolling hard to sort list concept breaks down: and if you’ve got game pass, then there’s another hundred games...)

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The PS4 interface, whilst not perfect, has a pretty decent default behavior (I think.) The single row auto-sorts most recently played to the starting position, and after a certain number, hides them away into your Library. Your Library shows you everything you own, installed or not (and I think you can filter on that.) If you do have loads of titles, you can mess around with folders and things. It's not perfect (things can't be in more than one folder, it still lags a little even on a Pro, tags might be better than folders, it probably doesn't scale to a backwards-compatible world) but it's pretty decent for what I need it for today.

 

If games came with a set of platform-defined tags as default (Local multiplayer? Online-multi? Is it BC, or current? A vague stab at genre etc) and I could filter on those, it would be a great addition.

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15 minutes ago, footle said:

Neither have backwards compatibility, so I suppose that’s ok.

(because of backwards compatibility, and the likes of Rare Replay, it’s quite easy to end up with a library of 100 games+ on the Xbox, at which point the single scrolling hard to sort list concept breaks down: and if you’ve got game pass, then there’s another hundred games...)

 

I've got 335 games and apps on PS4. It seems to zip around them fine, folders help. As I mentioned if you want to look at your complete games library on PS4 and Switch you go to a tiled list. Exactly as Xbox does. Not really sure what point you're making.

 

18 minutes ago, Uncle Mike said:

If games came with a set of platform-defined tags as default (Local multiplayer? Online-multi? Is it BC, or current? A vague stab at genre etc) and I could filter on those, it would be a great addition.

 

Agree with that. Having to filter your own stuff is a pain. Strange that none of the consoles or Steam (far as I know) do this.

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After years of being behind the others, I think the Switch's interface is nigh-on perfect.

 

Though I think the friends interface needs a big overall, everything else is great.

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