Xbox Series X | S

[CarloOos]

Hey if they went all-out with Ryse 2 I'd be there, turret sections aside it was alright. I guess Hellblade 2 is their more mopey equivalent.

[Flanders]

59 minutes ago, CarloOos said:

I'm still surprised either of them are bringing out their consoles this year tbh, if it wasn't for this endless game of chicken they're playing I think they'd both push back. Releasing extremely expensive toys while the western world hits its biggest recession in a lifetime seems ill-judged.

Did you miss the staggeringly enormous profits all three console platforms just published for their Covid quarters? Animal Crossing sold 22 million copies in less than six months! At full price!

 

These expensive toys will have massively reduced competition. Cinemas and live entertainment will still be more or less out. Ditto live sport. 
 

New TV will likely be starting to get more sparse as networks and streaming services finish up getting through their material that was mostly filmed pre-pandemic. Spending on trips abroad will be down. In the bleak Covid winter, the new consoles are going to be close to the only game in town for leisure spending, which more than offsets the recession.

 

The PS5 is going to sell out as many units Sony can produce this winter. I would have said the Series X was a cert to do the same prior to this Halo news, but it still has a pretty good chance.

[CarloOos]

20 minutes ago, HarryBizzle said:

 

I dunno, it certainly takes the wind out of the sails of the Series X launch for me - but I was one of the few people excited to play Infinite as shown. I might be wrong, but I think it helps the brand over the first year or two if they can say they're selling out and it's the most successful Xbox launch of all time and all the rest of those dodgy stats that always get rolled out for this kind of thing. But I'm not convinced that's going to happen when they're launching like this.

 

I think they're already fighting an uphill struggle in making this look like a full on next gen console. It's got no exclusive games, it's pretty much the same design language as the One X, and for some bizarre reason they really don't want to get out there and show us a direct comparison of just how bloody good games look on it in comparison to the One X or One S. And now it's not even launching with a big first party game - unless they rush something else out the door to take it's place, which I don't see happening. In comparison, the PS5 is new and exciting - despite being ugly as sin.

 

At the moment it just feels like the launch of the One X or PS4 Pro, and I'm not going to buy one at launch without something special to draw me in - getting the best experience for a big game like Halo was enough, but getting the best of what I'm already playing on Game Pass definitely isn't.

 

Don't disagree with any of this, I'm not feeling the urge to replace either of them for a while. The next-gen games will come eventually, and we'll all gradually upgrade, but it's definitely not as exciting as a traditional console launch. I suppose it'll be more like the soft satisfaction of finally getting an overdue new phone and being like 'ahh, this much better' as you realise how acclimatised you'd become to all the problems with the old model.

[HarryBizzle]

I think you’re probably right. I don’t want to buy both consoles for the first couple of years, so I think I’m probably best waiting at least a few months until we get a real feel for how big the power difference is between the two and if what games are likely to be released in the next year or two. Apart from Halo, Microsoft’s more interesting stuff (Fable, Avowed) look like 2022 at the earliest. 

[RubberJohnny]

I definitely think it's been an embarrassing few months for Microsoft, first Mixer, then the conferences, then this.

 

They had a lot of positive sentiment early in the year due to them being the only ones talking about next gen, but the moment both sides showed their hand, Microsofts seemed to be a bluff. An admittance that their first party games from their newish purchased studios are still years away, with only CG mood teasers that don't show what those games actually are, and their one big launch title looked really unimpressive in gameplay, graphics and story.

 

Add on the rumours that Sony has bought up a bunch of free DLC content in a bunch of third party games, like the example of Spidey in the Avengers, and the "best place to play third party games" thing collapses. Price is going to be crucial, I think.

[Mogster]

Again, I don't see cross gen games holding anything back. There's a pretty visible difference between a game running at 900p and 30fps on a One S, and running at 4k60 or whatever on a Series X with snazzier graphics. It's not like Microsoft are being forced into relying on 2D pixel art.

 

Whether or not this will turn out to be a good marketing decision is another matter of course. Plenty of people seem convinced that Sony's PS5 exclusives will be "true" next gen games purely because they've decided not to release PS4 versions.

[Corranga]

9 minutes ago, Flanders said:

The PS5 is going to sell out as many units Sony can produce this winter. I would have said the Series X was a cert to do the same prior to this Halo news, but it still has a pretty good chance.

 

Series X still will too.  This is a video games forum, full of potential early adopters who understand the market, and the games coming out on it.

Plenty of regular folk will be looking for the next big xmas gift, and if MS can market it properly, plenty of parents will see the Game Pass sub as a more cost effective way in, with others being sucked in by "the most powerful console ever"

 

Microsoft are doing a lot right at the moment (well, except delays, but COVID), it's just that what's right for a video games forum, and what's right for the public who will buy most of the consoles isn't necessarily the same thing.

 

Actually, scratch that, gamers like us are just too keen on new, shiny things, and quickly forget the massive drought of stuff post launch window..

 

What both MS and Sony need to pull fingers out and get on with however is confirming prices and launch titles, but only so folk can start pre-ordering.

I can't remember what the usual time window for those are, but 3 months feels about the right time, unless they are trying to gauge the sticker shock based on one another, but that doesn't seem like a good marketing strategy...

 

[Talk Show Host]

Microsoft certainly should be doing better after such great build up and the Halo situation is a blow. But I just don't think first party titles matter as much in the traditional sense, certainly not for the audience Microsoft are aiming for, which I believe to be a more mainstream audience this time and quite far from the likes of us here. 

 

We usually demand from developers to take their time with their games and I am glad they are doing that with Halo. Their strategy is all about the game pass and the most "powerful console" moniker. Seeing how Sony really doesn't have anything worthwhile first party wise during lauch -and they won't for at least two years imo- it is not such a big blow if you look at it from a macroscopic view.

 

Would it be great to have a good first party title at lauch? Sure. But would the availability of Halo give her any major advantage in their strategy? I'm not sure. It seems their plan is a slow burn this time. 

[Pob]

No matter when it comes out, there's a good chance that Halo Infinite will be a bust. New engine, having to work across generations, a flogged franchise, 343i largely unproven at doing anything original.

 

Sony's safer strategy of building on a known quantity (Spider-man) for their big first-party launch title looks like it'll pay off, especially if it shows off some next-gen capabilities that couldn't have been done on PS4.

[RubberJohnny]

Sony are also just better at having family content for launch, so people can justify "I'm just getting it for the kids". Spiderman was rated T and is hugely popular with a young audience (the character, I mean), they've also got Ratchet and Clank coming, Astrobot, Sackboy's Adventure, etc.

 

Microsoft have a couple of M-rated horror games. I'm sure they'll have Minecraft, and I'm sure if you own Minecraft then everything else in the genre starts to look a bit piddly in comparison, but you think they'd come up something after six years.

[HarryBizzle]

Microsoft have this thing called Game Pass where your annoying kids have an endless supply of games for the cost of about one retail game a year.

[Mr. Gerbik]

If the November 6th rumour is true, XsX won't even have Cyberpunk at launch...

[mdn2]

1 minute ago, Mr. Gerbik said:

If the November 6th rumour is true, XsX won't even have Cyberpunk at launch...

'Preorder the Series X today and play Cyberpunk 2077 two weeks early!'

 

I could actually see that shifting a few pre-orders. 

[Stanley]

23 minutes ago, HarryBizzle said:

Microsoft have this thing called Game Pass where your annoying kids have an endless supply of games for the cost of about one retail game a year.

This is true, loads of kids stuff on there too. 

[Broker]

How do you communicate Gamepass to a casual audience? As far as I’m aware a lot of the parents going out to get a console for their kids are going to Game or the supermarket, places that specifically won’t want to sell you Gamepass as it will destroy their chances of ever seeing money from you again. Isn’t there a danger that those places won’t promote it?

[Sixkiller]

4 hours ago, monkeydog said:

 

That's why Amazon and Disney have stayed well away from subscription services... 

 

4 hours ago, Isaac said:

 

This is an outdated take. Netflix is now a profit machine.

 

This analysis is from May of this year https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2020/05/01/netflix-one-question-is-it-losing-money-or-making-money/#5f7b185829a6 and suggests that the questions are far from over.

 

The fact others have followed with their own versions of a service does not necessarily mean that model is sustainable in the long term, it simply means that other companies do not want to be left behind if it does turn out to be sustainable.  There are numerous historical examples of 'fads' where firms have all followed each other into similar venture types for fear of missing out, only for all of them to end up abandoned.

 

I'm not saying this is the case with Netflix or with Gamepass, but I am saying it's not a forgone conclusion.  But equally I'm not sure the economics add up when you consider the length of time games take to develop and the costs of developing them - even if it does work for Netflix, I think huge question marks remain whether it's viable for games (and also, crucially, what impact it will have upon the games produced for such a system).

[Mr. Gerbik]

12 minutes ago, mdn2 said:

'Preorder the Series X today and play Cyberpunk 2077 two weeks early!'

 

I could actually see that shifting a few pre-orders. 

Yeah, but I can't see CD Projekt RED favouring a console platform like that over their PC release. It would definitely be something though, Cyberpunk as a pack-in, co-marketing, emphasize that it's the bestest console version, and two-week exclusivity window.

[HarryBizzle]

2 minutes ago, Broker said:

How do you communicate Gamepass to a casual audience? As far as I’m aware a lot of the parents going out to get a console for their kids are going to Game or the supermarket, places that specifically won’t want to sell you Gamepass as it will destroy their chances of ever seeing money from you again. Isn’t there a danger that those places won’t promote it?

 

Advertising, I imagine, as well as word of mouth. Anecdotally, I've heard of school kids all hopping on whatever is new on Game Pass, etc, so word of mouth is going to go a long way.

 

Maybe a TV ad; "Buy your kid a game and they'll leave you alone for a bit. Teach your kid to Game Pass, and they'll leave you alone forever."

[mikeyl]

Is gamepass really that much of a pull for the kids? They’ll want play all sorts of shit which is utterly incomprehensible to you and I. They’ll want what they want no matter what examples of broad appeal games you can throw out there. Moms will rock up to the shop and ask, is Kung Fu Panda free on Gamepass? FIFA? Fortnite? Fall Guys? 
 

We all overate the appeal of gamepass right now, I have it on PC but only downloaded Halo MCC. Sure, the day one 1st party releases offer is amazing, but that’s cornering a specific demographic. It’s a massive library of well made 6/10 entertainment with the occasional belter, truly the Netflix of computer games.

[Alex W.]

23 minutes ago, Mr. Gerbik said:

Yeah, but I can't see CD Projekt RED favouring a console platform like that over their PC release. It would definitely be something though, Cyberpunk as a pack-in, co-marketing, emphasize that it's the bestest console version, and two-week exclusivity window.

Surely MS would’ve included it in their “CONSOLE LAUNCH EXCLUSIVE” thing if it was launching even a day ahead of PS5.

[Petrousgyre]

I'm not sure about the notion that it doesn't matter how many consoles Microsoft sell next gen as it's all about Game Pass, the two are inexorably linked surely. If the Series sells really poorly out the gate and builds no real momentum you'll surely start to see publishers stop developing for it - this is already an increasing trend this generation amongst mostly Japanese publishers and you can envisage some of the bigger western publishers doing likewise if there's no meaningful console base to sell new games to. The income they might earn from releasing on Game Pass in a year or two represents a relatively small amount of revenue for big publishers and you'd have to imagine it maybe wouldn't be worth the effort of porting to two quite differently specced next-gen machines. I guess there's a possibility that streaming without a console will take off massively in the next year or two and make the number of physical consoles out there redundant but I'm not sure there's the appetite or infrastructure for it to happen at the speed Microsoft need for all this to be viable. Microsoft seem in a really precarious position right now.

[bear]

I think that we're going to see a lot more emphasis on the All-Access pricing once they finally start giving details about the Series S. $19.99 a month for a new console and access to Gamepass will tempt people. 

 

Losing Halo from the day one lineup is massive though. Not sure what they can do at this point to compensate for that. 

[HarryBizzle]

Buy CD Projekt Red.

[HarryBizzle]

43 minutes ago, petrolgirls said:

I'm not sure about the notion that it doesn't matter how many consoles Microsoft sell next gen as it's all about Game Pass, the two are inexorably linked surely. If the Series sells really poorly out the gate and builds no real momentum you'll surely start to see publishers stop developing for it - this is already an increasing trend this generation amongst mostly Japanese publishers and you can envisage some of the bigger western publishers doing likewise if there's no meaningful console base to sell new games to. The income they might earn from releasing on Game Pass in a year or two represents a relatively small amount of revenue for big publishers and you'd have to imagine it maybe wouldn't be worth the effort of porting to two quite differently specced next-gen machines. I guess there's a possibility that streaming without a console will take off massively in the next year or two and make the number of physical consoles out there redundant but I'm not sure there's the appetite or infrastructure for it to happen at the speed Microsoft need for all this to be viable. Microsoft seem in a really precarious position right now.

 

Yeah, this is my fear. You need a critical mass of Xbox consoles out there at the core of the whole Game Pass thing, and having no games to push your new £400+ toy out the door isn't going to help that. Then you run into people getting worried about buying into a system that might not do that well and end up with no games, etc.

 

I think things would have to go pretty disastrously wrong for them for Xbox to be in that position, but I really hope they have some good news to announce at their next thing.

[Down by Law]

59 minutes ago, bear said:

 

Losing Halo from the day one lineup is massive though. Not sure what they can do at this point to compensate for that. 

 

The Saturn didn't have a Sonic game at launch and that did just fine... 

 

Microsoft are a bit like Sega at the moment. The 360 launch and the following 4-5 years their Mega Drive moment and all the follow ups just can't capture the same magic. The kinect would be the mega cd era and the original xbox one the 32X. Hopefully the Series X is more Dreamcast than Saturn. At least they have the money to try and make it work at any cost. 

[jonamok]

3 hours ago, Alex W. said:

Supposedly the shipping box for the white Xbox pads:

Can’t believe I’m the first to notice the clues in the image to the Xbox Series X/S launch line-up!

Assassin’s Creed: Holy Grail

Biohazard IX: Umbrella Corpse

My Little Pony: The Electric Age

Portal VR: Companion Cube

[monkeydog]

3 minutes ago, jonamok said:

Can’t believe I’m the first to notice the clues in the image to the Xbox Series X/S launch line-up!

Assassin’s Creed: Holy Grail

Biohazard IX: Umbrella Corpse

My Little Pony: The Electric Age

Portal VR: Companion Cube

 

They're all 2021 titles now.  

[Isaac]

1 hour ago, petrolgirls said:

I'm not sure about the notion that it doesn't matter how many consoles Microsoft sell next gen as it's all about Game Pass, the two are inexorably linked surely. If the Series sells really poorly out the gate and builds no real momentum you'll surely start to see publishers stop developing for it - this is already an increasing trend this generation amongst mostly Japanese publishers and you can envisage some of the bigger western publishers doing likewise if there's no meaningful console base to sell new games to. The income they might earn from releasing on Game Pass in a year or two represents a relatively small amount of revenue for big publishers and you'd have to imagine it maybe wouldn't be worth the effort of porting to two quite differently specced next-gen machines. I guess there's a possibility that streaming without a console will take off massively in the next year or two and make the number of physical consoles out there redundant but I'm not sure there's the appetite or infrastructure for it to happen at the speed Microsoft need for all this to be viable. Microsoft seem in a really precarious position right now.

 

This is incorrect - the two boxes are extremely similar. They are essentially small form factor PCs. It has never been lower-effort to port a game from one machine to the other.

 

Next generation it will arguably be even easier, given the performance gap is even smaller. 

 

If a developer is making a PC port it is utterly trivial to make an Xbox port too.

 

I'd argue it might be a worry if the Xbox is lower-specced, but it isn't - it's faster. 

[Bojangle]

2 hours ago, Isaac said:

 

If a developer is making a PC port it is utterly trivial to make an Xbox port too.

Can we please not make broad sweeping assumptions like this? It’s unhealthy and perpetuates the whole “it’s just a quick port and it should be way cheaper” mentality that Gamers love.

 

In some cases it might be ever so slightly true but I’ve yet to see a trivial port on a large scale game. We estimated it’d take six months to bring our game across to Xbox, in the end due to unexpected issues, platform specific engine issues which required updates which then introduced more issues, XDK issues, changing design specifications to meet Certification requirements, implementing console specific performance optimisations etc etc it took a year.

 

Microsoft are trying (once again) to make making an Xbox/PC game simple (like they wanted to do with UWP) but it ultimately means you need to build your game on the GDK from the start to gain any real benefit from it, otherwise you’re still just maintaining several builds each with their own unique issues and hurdles. 

[Petrousgyre]

19 minutes ago, Isaac said:

This is incorrect - the two boxes are extremely similar.

 

If rumours are correct one is 1/3rd the GPU with perhaps half the RAM, doesn't sound like it's a button push to make the S version. Regardless, even if it were it doesn't really alter the thrust of my point.