Xbox Series X | S

[Harsin]

Mainly because nobody gave the slightest shit about the all digital. What a wet fart of a product that was.

[Stanley]

All Digital wasn’t successful because it wasn’t cheap enough and they weren’t pushing Gamepass as hard. Now it’s a different ball game.

[Dudley]

2 hours ago, Stanley said:

Won’t the extra ram be mainly for higher resolution textures? 

 

That's not how it works though, if it's standard RAM or unified the developer can use it for anything, eg - all the leagues in Football Manager.

 

If the lowest machine they're obliged to run on has 6 rather 8 (or whatever) then they can only write for 6 not 8.

[SeanR]

Just now, Stanley said:

All Digital wasn’t successful because it wasn’t cheap enough and they weren’t pushing Gamepass as hard. Now it’s a different ball game.

[Talk Show Host]

Just now, Wahwah* said:

 

I'm not defending Microsoft's choice to make the S, I still don't understand what it offers and what it doesn't (because they haven't said) but Sony's approach will presumably result in two systems that aren't wildly differently priced. The S is about opening the market up to more price sensitive people.  I view the Sony system as much as being for people who don't use physical media anymore, they must have the data indicating how many disc drives go completely unused.

 

I agree with that, yes, but is the alternative for them the "Series S"? I think brand awareness and games on offer play a much bigger choice than price in buying a console and most of the mainstream audience only buys one console. On the other hand it may indeed be a side way for Microsoft to bring people in the brand and Game Pass.

[Dudley]

To be fair, I know one person that exclusively buys digital and even they're still buying the disk based ps5 just in case.

[Stanley]

1 minute ago, Dudley said:

 

That's not how it works though, if it's standard RAM or unified the developer can use it for anything, eg - all the leagues in Football Manager.

 

If the lowest machine they're obliged to run on has 6 rather 8 (or whatever) then they can only write for 6 not 8.

I think the X has 16gb and the S is rumoured to be 8 - I admit I have little understanding of how this would affect things though. 

[Transient Curse]

6 minutes ago, Talk Show Host said:

 

I agree with that, yes, but is the alternative for them the "Series S"? I think brand awareness and games on offer play a much bigger choice than price in buying a console and most of the mainstream audience only buys one console. On the other hand it may indeed be a side way for Microsoft to bring people in the brand and Game Pass.

 

I would imagine that Most of the sales of consoles aren't at launch, when prices are at their highest. Microsoft clearly think they can get people onto their platform if they lower the barrier for entry at a time when the competition will be (presumably) almost exclusively promoting a premium priced product.  

 

It's not without precedent, people are keen on drawing paralels with mobile phone contracts and so on, a lot of people (bafflingly!) are prepared to take a reduced feature set in exchange for a lower price, the biggest phone producers, Apple and Samsung both launch multiple phones with the same branding but different specs to hit different price points, etc.

 

[Stanley]

3 minutes ago, Talk Show Host said:

 

I agree with that, yes, but is the alternative for them the "Series S"? I think brand awareness and games on offer play a much bigger choice than price in buying a console and most of the mainstream audience only buys one console. On the other hand it may indeed be a side way for Microsoft to bring people in the brand and Game Pass.

It’s all about Gamepass now - everything they market it with will have “available now on Gamepass” attached. That’s how they will go against Sony’s impressive exclusives - price and volume, and hopefully some decent games too

[Talk Show Host]

19 minutes ago, Stanley said:

As someone who has worked in retail for many years you see them coming, and you don’t give them a choice - here’s your Series S, here’s your Gamepass, and you’re done, next! 
 

(although I haven’t worked in game retail for many, many years - is it even a thing these days?) 

 

I have worked in retail in videogames as well and I have managed stores. Most consumers coming in to buy a console had little idea of the details. They usually came in asking something straight like "I want a PS or a Wii" or "which console has the Indiana Jones' games - aka Uncharted"? Very few people had ever come in asking "which is the cheapest console on the market? I'll have that". I highly doubt that the Series S will be anything other than a side door to bring people to the Game Pass. It will have no significant impact in sales for Xbox as a brand but it will be great to be proven wrong, as it will mean more people for Game Pass which is amazing.

[Popo]

Is the Series S just a rumour at this moment or has it been confirmed as on the roadmap?

 

My fear with launching both systems side by side is that the cheaper version will undercut the full price model. I think it’s more likely Microsoft will launch any potential cut-rate model later in the cycle. 

[Alex W.]

10 minutes ago, Dudley said:

 

That's not how it works though, if it's standard RAM or unified the developer can use it for anything, eg - all the leagues in Football Manager.

 

If the lowest machine they're obliged to run on has 6 rather 8 (or whatever) then they can only write for 6 not 8.

That’s a pretty niche use case though, and one that will be easily served by swapping out to the SSD. They might not even bother putting the leagues in RAM.

 

In the situations where having the data instantly available in RAM matters, you’re probably talking about graphics, and the amount of memory you need scales down with the amount of CUs.

[Alex W.]

Just now, Popo said:

Is the Series S just a rumour at this moment or has it been confirmed as on the roadmap?

 

My fear with launching both systems side by side is that the cheaper version will undercut the full price model. I think it’s more likely Microsoft will launch any potential cut-rate model later in the cycle. 

It was on a leaked roadmap as Project Lockhart with no specific specs, independent sources have come forwards with particular specs, and Microsoft is shipping Xbox Series X controllers in boxes that refer to Xbox Series X and Xbox Series S. It’s happening, and soon.

[Talk Show Host]

9 minutes ago, Wahwah* said:

 

I would imagine that Most of the sales of consoles aren't at launch, when prices are at their highest. Microsoft clearly think they can get people onto their platform if they lower the barrier for entry at a time when the competition will be (presumably) almost exclusively promoting a premium priced product.  

 

It's not without precedent, people are keen on drawing paralels with mobile phone contracts and so on, a lot of people (bafflingly!) are prepared to take a reduced feature set in exchange for a lower price, the biggest phone producers, Apple and Samsung both launch multiple phones with the same branding but different specs to hit different price points, etc.

 

 

It can happen, yes, but judging by how the iPhones sell, I'd say the correlation between features/power/price is not the main thing in the mind of mainstream consumers.

[5R7]

13 minutes ago, Dudley said:

 

That's not how it works though, if it's standard RAM or unified the developer can use it for anything, eg - all the leagues in Football Manager.

 

 

Fm doesn't work like that...might if SI actually developed it to USE the system it is on mind! but it doesn't, its borked as fuck, and barley runs better on a high end system to a low end. It relies on CPU to get better processing, but, it still doesn't use the system its being run on fully!

Case in point, it barely runs better on my i9-9900k with 32gig ram, than it does on my i7-4790k with 32gig ram...its annoying...

[Stanley]

1 minute ago, Talk Show Host said:

 

I have worked in retail in videogames as well and I have managed stores. Most consumers coming in to buy a console had little idea of the details. They usually came in asking something straight like "I want a PS or a Wii" or "which console has the Indiana Jones' games - aka Uncharted"? Very few people had ever come in asking "which is the cheapest console on the market? I'll have that". I highly doubt that the Series S will be anything other than a side door to bring people to the Game Pass. It will have no significant impact in sales for Xbox as a brand but it will be great to be proven wrong. 

You’re looking at it back to front - Series S (or X) isn’t a “side door” to Gamepass. Gamepass is the platform, the main attraction, and S is just the cheapest point of entry. 
 

As for it having no significant impact on sales, if that’s the case why are the base PS4 and Xbox One S the biggest sellers? 

[Alex W.]

Just now, Talk Show Host said:

 

It can happen, yes, but judging by how the iPhones sell, I'd say the correlation between features/power/price is not the main thing in the mind of mainstream audiences.

The mid range iPhones are consistently the best selling ones now. As long as it’s this year’s model, people have been going for the iPhone XR or 11 over the iPhone X and the 11 Pro.

[Stanley]

Just now, Alex W. said:

The mid range iPhones are consistently the best selling ones now. As long as it’s this year’s model, people have been going for the iPhone XR or 11 over the iPhone X and the 11 Pro.

Yep, and by a significant amount. 

[Harsin]

5 minutes ago, Stanley said:

You’re looking at it back to front - Series S (or X) isn’t a “side door” to Gamepass. Gamepass is the platform, the main attraction, and S is just the cheapest point of entry. 
 

As for it having no significant impact on sales, if that’s the case why are the base PS4 and Xbox One S the biggest sellers? 

The problem with this approach is that paying top dollar for a Series X then starts to feel a bit like buying a Lamborghini only to pootle around on B roads with it.

[Transient Curse]

3 minutes ago, Talk Show Host said:

 

It can happen, yes, but judging by how the iPhones sell, I'd say the correlation between features/power/price is not the main thing in the mind of mainstream consumers.

 

Oh, I agree, brand power is significant, however if you haven't got £500 and the new Call of Duty/Fifa/Whatever can be played on a system costing £250 (or whatever) maybe that's a better result for some, even if you don't get a battery built into the pad!

[Fargo]

I really hope the fact that the controllers are out there seemingly ready to go to retail means we get the series X/S launching in the next few weeks. I’d love 2 months to enjoy the Xbox before the PS5 drops in November. It can be overwhelming with two consoles launching on top of each other. 
 

In terms of the difference between the two xboxes I think the S will still have a disk drive and simply be a 1080p option. 

[Transient Curse]

Just now, Harsin said:

The problem with this approach is that paying top dollar for a Series X then starts to feel a bit like buying a Lamborghini only to pootle around on B rroads with it.

 

This is going to be key. They need to make the X seem like a premium product or people won't be convinced. However, I think it's fair to expect the X to be the best version of multiplatform games so it shouldn't feel like that ...as long as the S doesn't get too close to it.

 

It's a really interesting launch. 

[Alex W.]

1 minute ago, Harsin said:

The problem with this approach is that paying top dollar for a Series X then starts to feel a bit like buying a Lamborghini only to pootle around on B rroads with it.

Sure, but people spend top dollar for the top of the range iPhone so they can get an extra camera they’ll probably forget they have. You don’t necessarily need to have a compelling differentiating feature for your top of the line model to sell.
 

Although “literally four times the graphics” is probably going to be a good way of enticing people to spend a little more once they’ve decided that the Xbox Series S is too good a bargain to ignore.

[Clipper]

2 minutes ago, Harsin said:

The problem with this approach is that paying top dollar for a Series X then starts to feel a bit like buying a Lamborghini only to pootle around on B rroads with it.

If they announce Series S at launch then the X is the same as current gen you pay extra for maximum fps and shinies.

 

Apart from 1st party the games are the same regardless if you buy PS5 a Series S or Series X

[Talk Show Host]

9 minutes ago, Stanley said:

You’re looking at it back to front - Series S (or X) isn’t a “side door” to Gamepass. Gamepass is the platform, the main attraction, and S is just the cheapest point of entry. 
 

As for it having no significant impact on sales, if that’s the case why are the base PS4 and Xbox One S the biggest sellers? 

 

I think the question is why is the base PS4 so much ahead of the One S?

 

I agree that Game Pass is the platform and that S is the cheapest point of entry, that makes more sense as a strategy. But I don't think it is the best way to do it. The best way for me would be to design your strategy around a single, cheaper than the competition console, and pull people in by offering "a netflix of games" of shorts. Have one based strategy, one identity, as the others two have. Microsoft is certainly going towards that but it seems they are trying to get both kind of consumers before they fully commit and that will end up with a mixed message.

[AI]

If the Series S is more popular than the Series X (if the only difference is price and resolution then it might well do) and the Series S is created from leftovers on the factory floor from Series X production, then how does that work if the Series S becomes market leader? What yields are they expecting from Series X production and how do they manufacture more Series S's if no one is interested in the Series X?

 

"I'm confused!" /Partridge

 

 

[Transient Curse]

1 minute ago, Fargo said:

I really hope the fact that the controllers are out there seemingly ready to go to retail means we get the series X/S launching in the next few weeks. I’d love 2 months to enjoy the Xbox before the PS5 drops in November. It can be overwhelming with two consoles launching on top of each other. 
 

In terms of the difference between the two xboxes I think the S will still have a disk drive and simply be a 1080p option. 

 

Given that they are (I assume) compatible with every Xbox, maybe they'll be on the market before the new systems launch. 

 

I can't imagine a world where Microsoft get their systems out on shelves before Sony announce a price, but it would be amazing if they did an Apple style "Available now" in their next webcast.

[Clipper]

1 minute ago, Talk Show Host said:

 

I think the question is why is the base PS4 so much ahead than the One S?

 

 

TVTVTV

 

The launch disaster of Xbox One consigned it to a life of trying to catch up by being "pro consumer". A disaster that almost undid all the good work that they did with the 360.

 

The die was cast early on and even late in life when you had gamepass to wave under the noses of the new console buyers all they saw was the juggernaut install base of PS4 - all their friends had one , it was better than the Bone etc.

[Talk Show Host]

5 minutes ago, Alex W. said:

The mid range iPhones are consistently the best selling ones now. As long as it’s this year’s model, people have been going for the iPhone XR or 11 over the iPhone X and the 11 Pro.

 

That is what I am saying. There are arguably better phones at midrange but people go for the iPhones. 

[Fargo]

3 minutes ago, Wahwah* said:

 

Given that they are (I assume) compatible with every Xbox, maybe they'll be on the market before the new systems launch. 

 

I can't imagine a world where Microsoft get their systems out on shelves before Sony announce a price, but it would be amazing if they did an Apple style "Available now" in their next webcast.

They did a similar drop with the 360 S where it was available In the US the week after it was announced