Xbox Series X | S

[moosegrinder]

I still think they're forcing the next gen too early. Or may not too early but unnecessarily. People seem to think a new console is going to fix all the problems with game design but it really isn't going to. We'll still get the indie darlings, the games that are more style over substance, the online shit shows, the forced crafting mechanics, the online requirements for single player it's just we'll have ray tracing and (allegedly) quicker loading times.

[Isaac]

Just now, moosegrinder said:

I still think they're forcing the next gen too early. Or may not too early but unnecessarily. People seem to think a new console is going to fix all the problems with game design but it really isn't going to. We'll still get the indie darlings, the games that are more style over substance, the online shit shows, the forced crafting mechanics, the online requirements for single player it's just we'll have ray tracing and (allegedly) quicker loading times.

 

I'm with you, except on the SSD front.

 

The current generation's biggest problem isn't the graphics, it's loading times, install times, and just general snappiness of the OS.

 

The NVME SSDs in both consoles will be the kind of change that will immediately make sense and make going back to the current generation a real "how did we ever put up with that?!" moment.

[Ry]

I regret selling my X. Hoping to rebuy one on the cheap. There's absolutely no reason for me to spend £500 on series x when I could maybe pick up an X for £150. I will pick up a series X in a couple years when it's worthwhile. 

 

I need a good reason at the next showcase later in the year a solid reason to buy a series X.

[moosegrinder]

36 minutes ago, Nate Dogg III said:

I can’t remember ever being this apathetic about a new console generation. I see no reason to buy either of them at launch. 

 

This is precisely it. It seems like the problem that mobile phones has; there's no quantum leap in technology or functionality. Functionally all phones are pretty much the same, some just do shit quicker, some are smaller, etc

 

And if this generation has shown anything, it's that remasters sell. Sequels have always been a thing so people who are bemoaning Forza 8 or whatever are missing that they can sell you the same thing again but prettier. I'm absolutely guilty of that because I do like buying things more than once, apparently, it's just this time I don't really see the need to spend £500 to do it again.

I'm invested in the Xbox eco system for a few reasons, but if last nights show told me anything it's that I really don't need a Series X. Everything I want will be on Xbox One.

[RubberJohnny]

35 minutes ago, Nate Dogg III said:

I can’t remember ever being this apathetic about a new console generation. I see no reason to buy either of them at launch. 

 

We've really done a full 180 when people were insisting better CPUs were going to revolutionize everything.

[V3zna]

I thought the presentation was ok. Neither bad or good. Some things certainly appealed to me but ultimately I came away with the opinion that there’s not a chance in hell I’m buying either next gen console but will continue to subscribe to Gamepass for use on my PC. I guess ultimately that’s a win for MS.

[Eighthours]

What's weird is that Microsoft obviously had a roadmap and a planned release date for the Series X a long while ago. So why not say to their studios 3-4 years ago to aim for this date for next gen software? It seems that 343i received this edict and have done their best, but I'm pretty astonished that Turn 10 - who released Forza 7 back in October 2017 - couldn't have had something ready for release alongside the Series X. And Playground Games have previously taken 2 years to make each Forza Horizon game, with the last one coming out 2 years ago this October. So where's the new Horizon? The Fable team is supposed to be a whole new team so they can work on 2 games at once.

 

It's curious stuff. I was 100% expecting a Forza game of some description at launch.

 

However, I maintain that by FAR the biggest update with the next gen consoles will be the much reduced load times. It's going to feel like a quantum leap forward. And so glorious (until you're stuck waiting forever for Xbone/PS4 users to load the map in your multiplayer session and then return to the lobby. Next gen only Destiny parties, please!).

[moosegrinder]

1 minute ago, Eighthours said:

What's weird is that Microsoft obviously had a roadmap and a planned release date for the Series X a long while ago. So why not say to their studios 3-4 years ago to aim for this date for next gen software? It seems that 343i received this edict and have done their best, but I'm pretty astonished that Turn 10 - who released Forza 7 back in October 2017 - couldn't have had something ready for release alongside the Series X. And Playground Games have previously taken 2 years to make each Forza Horizon game, with the last one coming out 2 years ago this October. So where's the new Horizon? The Fable team is supposed to be a whole new team so they can work on 2 games at once.

 

It's curious stuff.

 

It could come back to bite them in the arse, but they're leaning into the "Here it is. Buy it. Or don't, whatever, it's all good. You'll get there eventually." kind of thing. Xbox is more than a console now, it's a platform or ecosystem or whatever. With Game Pass and Xcloud you're investing into that rather than what you play it on. Only time will tell whether this is a good idea or not.

[Revival]

The question why should I buy a series X is the main thing most people seem to be coming out with from yesterday's show. If you guy's check Xbox Wire it has a breakdown of most of the games shown and the one thing that's consitent in each of those games articles is:

 

4K/60

 

People wanted a generation where 60fps becomes the norm and from the looks of it yesterday's titles are hitting that. So if you want a console where the games are targetting 4K/60 then here's your option.

 

 

 

Quick Sweep:

Exomecha 4K high fidelity mode & a 120 fps mode. Our 120 fps mode will also be 4K but it will be a dynamic resolution
Echo Generation 4K/60
Halo Infinite 4K/60
The Falconeer 4K/60
Tetris Effect 4K/60
Forza Motorsport 4K/60
Destiny 2 Beyond Light 4K/60
Gears Tactics 4K/60
The Ascent 4K/60

Bright Memory Infinite 4K/60
Call of the Sea 4K/60
DiRT 5 Dynamic 4K/120

Ori and the Will of the Wisps 4K/120
Forza Horizon 4 4K/60
Gears 5 4K/60
 

 

 

[Eighthours]

3 minutes ago, moosegrinder said:

 

It could come back to bite them in the arse, but they're leaning into the "Here it is. Buy it. Or don't, whatever, it's all good. You'll get there eventually." kind of thing. Xbox is more than a console now, it's a platform or ecosystem or whatever. With Game Pass and Xcloud you're investing into that rather than what you play it on. Only time will tell whether this is a good idea or not.

 

That may well be the result and the overarching strategy, but it's certainty not the messaging promised for these recent shows.

[FiveFootNinja]

3 hours ago, footle said:

you were going to buy live gold for the next two years while your main console is a PS5?
ok, fair enough.

I don't really have a main console, but yes. I've got a group of mates who are Xbox only who I like playing multiplayer with (generally shooters) so something like COD, The Division, etc... I will probably always play on Xbox (and therefore Gold) even though both my PS4 (and probably PS5) get most of the workout on generally more single player stuff (and obviously their exclusives). I don't really see that changing much. GamePass for me mainly means that I don't have to go hunting sales bins that often to find older things I have been meaning to try, or as a method of dipping into things I may not have tried otherwise (for example I'm playing Subnautica at the moment on it which I had previously dismissed but it's actually really good).

 

 

2 hours ago, MattyP said:

No they got three years of Gold out of you. What say £90?! Also you have bought into the ecosystem and will stick with MS because that is where you will get your "free" content. Not going to play a game elsewhere are you if it's part of Gamepass? It's the same reason Google give you 'free" apps on phones. MS will leverage that subscriber base somehow. But first they have to snag you in. 

 

MS are smart I think... Or stupid and rich.... Can't work out which sometimes.

 

I know how it works, what I'm saying is in my case they didn't get Gold out of me and more than they already would have done.  I can't say say how many that applies to, but certainly the "3 year loophole" customers are probably ones that are in some way already engaged in the ecosystem (e.g. I don't think on the whole casual users/new customers will have decided to stack up 3 years and then convert it). I would guess it has probably helped existing customer retention at a time when people might be tempted away. MS are a massive, very successful and intelligent company. But like all tech giants they have done some brilliant things and also had their fair share of incredibly expensive mistakes. I think both your descriptions are right!   

 

 

My main point is that while GamePass is undoubtedly brilliant value right now, we won't know how much of a game changer it actually is until there is a large enough user base all paying the full monthly price in big numbers. We aren't there yet, and until we are seemingly Sony (another smart/stupid/rich company) don't seem to be flapping about it. It a bold proposition it may well pay off, I just don't think it's the silver bullet that it sometimes gets made out to be.

[moosegrinder]

3 minutes ago, Eighthours said:

 

That may well be the result and the overarching strategy, but it's certainty not the messaging promised for these recent shows.

 

Yeah, the marketing doesn't match up.

[CrichStand]

26 minutes ago, Isaac said:

 

Apologies, I was replying to @Fully Aspel and @SweatyTravolta, your post just appeared in the middle.

 

 

This is the point though - neither console is really ready. Covid has exacerbated the issue, but it's clear that the games just aren't there. This is nothing new though - remember the launch line up for the PS2? Tekken Tag was pretty rubbish.

 

 Neither console should be out this year, but both have been rushed to market so that the competitor doesn't beat them to it.

 

 

I disagree in part. Microsoft is selling a service, not a box - which is partly why all their first party games are coming to PC too. Ultimately they're pitching to be the Netflix of games. They don't care what you play on, but to go to my earlier point, they have actually acknowledged that this console isn't really ready. It doesn't have the lineup to sell at launch if you're only able to play Series X exclusive games on it.

 

Sony are betting that people will buy the box at launch based on what they hope to happen in future (they certainly don't have anything compelling at launch), and perhaps that is the right call - time will tell.

 

 

From 2021 Series X exclusive games will be coming out - at that point you make your decision. Microsoft isn't going for loads of people upgrading at launch. Given Covid, I'd be surprised if either manufacturer even has enough stock in the channel to have a huge launch. 

 

You're all ignoring perhaps the most significant move Microsoft has done in the past two weeks too - and that is bundling xCloud in with Game Pass. This is a huge deal. 

 

Ultimately, if Microsoft is angling to be the Netflix of games the one real hurdle is that it's currently Netflix but with a several hundred pound upfront fee to jump in. This announcement totally removes the fee, and now anybody can get a free trial of game pass and play Xbox games on literally any device. 

 

Yes, the tech may not be totally there yet, but it soon will be. They are (correctly) acknowledging that there will still be a market of gaming fans who want a box under the TV to get the best fidelity and performance, but this xCloud announcement is absolutely huge, in terms of positioning for the future. It removes the upfront fee to join their ecosystem, which could be transformative, particularly in emerging markets.

 

Time will tell I guess.

Problem is, the vast majority of people will only buy one console. If Sony get things like Ratchet, Dark Souls, GT etc out early doors Microsoft are dead in the water. Hardly anyone will be buying a second console at £500 a pop in 2021, in order to subscribe to a service that has no exclusive games, or has games they’ve already played last gen.
 

PS4 is already the most popular console. Most of those people will simply move to PS5. Sony’s first party studios have proven just how talented they are this gen and either created fantastic new IP or made genre defining sequels that have all been AAA quality. People will buy into a console for those exclusive games alone. It’s Microsoft’s job to pull those people toward the Xbox console and brand. At the moment, with just 4 months till launch of their next gen consoles, Microsoft are failing badly.

[Eighthours]

2 minutes ago, moosegrinder said:

 

Yeah, the marketing doesn't match up.

 

It'll be really interesting to see what the messaging is around the rumoured Lockhart version of the console, if that's revealed next month as expected. I don't envy Microsoft the balancing act they'll be having to do there.

[moosegrinder]

Bear in mind the Xbox 360 was more popular than the PS3 so people expected everyone to buy the successor until Microsoft fucked it royally. What I think will determine the outcome of this popularity wise is who the tabloids choose to big up in terms of power. The CoD and Fifa buyers go wherever the power and popularity lies, so if Sony do fuck the exclusives there's no reason why they won't go for Xbox. Of course, if there's relative parity of power (see previous post about quantum leaps) people will probably just buy the successor to the one they have.

Again, it's gonna be interesting to watch.

[Revival]

4 minutes ago, Fully Aspel said:

Problem is, the vast majority of people will only buy one console. If Sony get things like Ratchet, Dark Souls, GT etc out early doors Microsoft are dead in the water. Hardly anyone will be buying a second console at £500 a pop in 2021, in order to subscribe to a service that has no exclusive games, or has games they’ve already played last gen.
 

PS4 is already the most popular console. Most of those people will simply move to PS5. Sony’s first party studios have proven just how talented they are this gen and either created fantastic new IP or made genre defining sequels that have all been AAA quality. People will buy into a console for those exclusive games alone. It’s Microsoft’s job to pull those people toward the Xbox console and brand. At the moment, with just 4 months till launch of their next gen consoles, Microsoft are failing badly.

 

Where on earth do we get these people from? Awful.

 

Where have all of the exclusive games gone from the subscription service? You're talking tripe.

[MattyP]

31 minutes ago, Fully Aspel said:

PS4 is already the most popular console. Most of those people will simply move to PS5. 

What you mean like all the 360 owners did to the Xbox One?!

 

Say MS released the Series X for £350 with 3 months GamePass Ultimate included think that proposition might away a few people

 

How well a console runs third party titles, the power of the console and lastly the price seem to be the three main factors when choosing a console most people make. At least at the start of the generation.

 

At the moment personally for me no compelling reason to move onto either of the new consoles. I'll probably pick up a PS5 at some point though as my PC will get all the Xbox content anyway as well as third party releases.

 

[Talk Show Host]

14 minutes ago, Fully Aspel said:

Problem is, the vast majority of people will only buy one console. If Sony get things like Ratchet, Dark Souls, GT etc out early doors Microsoft are dead in the water. Hardly anyone will be buying a second console at £500 a pop in 2021, in order to subscribe to a service that has no exclusive games, or has games they’ve already played last gen.
 

PS4 is already the most popular console. Most of those people will simply move to PS5. Sony’s first party studios have proven just how talented they are this gen and either created fantastic new IP or made genre defining sequels that have all been AAA quality. People will buy into a console for those exclusive games alone. It’s Microsoft’s job to pull those people toward the Xbox console and brand. At the moment, with just 4 months till launch of their next gen consoles, Microsoft are failing badly.

 

Sony will not have anything from their studios out early doors and Ratchet is not a system seller. The games offered on Game Pass have a great diversity and the value is insane. I bet Microsoft does not even care how many consoles it will sell down the line as they are clearly planning a different experience. By offering a great price, a powerful console and a service that has no equal,  they have a package that is more than worth it while you are waiting for the first AAA title from Sony. If they combine that with smart delivery and best versions of multiplatform games it is a solid plan to get back into the fight.

 

If they are able to produce their own AAAs to rival Sony's then they have a chance to ''win''.

[FiveFootNinja]

Just thinking about this now it's got an almost funny echo of the old Microsoft/Apple desktop computer situation back in the day. Microsoft taking a "we're anywhere/everywhere" approach where as Apple focused on protecting the ring fence and getting people to buy into to their content and vision on their terms. Maybe there is room for both here too. We just need Microsoft to put a GamePass app on the PS5 like they put Office365 of Mac  

 

I jest, but actually I hope both do very well this time round (i.e. they build/share an audience rather than just taking one for another). The market is better for consumers if there is strong competition between big businesses for our money, it forces them to innovate and add value which makes us the winners.

[JohnC]

21 minutes ago, moosegrinder said:

Bear in mind the Xbox 360 was more popular than the PS3

Was it though? 

[Isaac]

28 minutes ago, Fully Aspel said:

Problem is, the vast majority of people will only buy one console. If Sony get things like Ratchet, Dark Souls, GT etc out early doors Microsoft are dead in the water. Hardly anyone will be buying a second console at £500 a pop in 2021, in order to subscribe to a service that has no exclusive games, or has games they’ve already played last gen.
 

PS4 is already the most popular console. Most of those people will simply move to PS5. Sony’s first party studios have proven just how talented they are this gen and either created fantastic new IP or made genre defining sequels that have all been AAA quality. People will buy into a console for those exclusive games alone. It’s Microsoft’s job to pull those people toward the Xbox console and brand. At the moment, with just 4 months till launch of their next gen consoles, Microsoft are failing badly.

 

Besides all the other guff you are talking, if the Lockhart rumours are true people won't be needing to buy a second £500 console - they can buy a Lockhart for £200-250.

[moosegrinder]

5 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Was it though? 

 

A quick Google says PS3 eventually sold about a million more consoles but took till 2017 to do so, and Xbox 360 sold more software. Course, the Wii shit on them both in terms of console sales and that didn't translate to a Wii U success, but it's not as simple as that.

[MattyP]

11 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Was it though? 

Not really in the long run. But it ran most third party games better than the PS3 and was cheaper oh and launched much earlier in the UK than the PS3.

 

Think most people ended up with both anyway as Sony had some great exclusives on the PS3. Think the upcoming gen will be interesting - mainly to see which console most buy first - because this usually dictates where the mass go as the early adopters usually swing their mates etc onto one platform or another.

 

In general people will end up with both (or use a PC and buy a PS5) though as the lure of exclusives is too great.

 

EDIT: This thread seems to be turning into a console war debate. Apologies for my part in derailing a bit.

 

[Ry]

Does everyone online own a gaming PC?

 

That's my takeaway from all this.

[JPL]

41 minutes ago, Revival said:

 

Where on earth do we get these people from? Awful.

 

Where have all of the exclusive games gone from the subscription service? You're talking tripe.

You never go Fully Aspel.

[moosegrinder]

4 minutes ago, Ry said:

Does everyone online own a gaming PC?

 

That's my takeaway from all this.

 

The problems with forums like this is we're not representative of the hobby, really. A lot of people on here have multiple systems whereas the public tend to just have 1. 

 

At least that used to be the case. I can't see it having changed in recent years, mind.

[Corranga]

45 minutes ago, Revival said:

The question why should I buy a series X is the main thing most people seem to be coming out with from yesterday's show. If you guy's check Xbox Wire it has a breakdown of most of the games shown and the one thing that's consitent in each of those games articles is:

 

4K/60

 

People wanted a generation where 60fps becomes the norm and from the looks of it yesterday's titles are hitting that. So if you want a console where the games are targetting 4K/60 then here's your option.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Quick Sweep:

Exomecha 4K high fidelity mode & a 120 fps mode. Our 120 fps mode will also be 4K but it will be a dynamic resolution
Echo Generation 4K/60
Halo Infinite 4K/60
The Falconeer 4K/60
Tetris Effect 4K/60
Forza Motorsport 4K/60
Destiny 2 Beyond Light 4K/60
Gears Tactics 4K/60
The Ascent 4K/60

Bright Memory Infinite 4K/60
Call of the Sea 4K/60
DiRT 5 Dynamic 4K/120

Ori and the Will of the Wisps 4K/120
Forza Horizon 4 4K/60
Gears 5 4K/60
 

 

 

 

More of this please.

 

I want 60fps (or faster) games.  Moving from 30fps shiny looking games to 60fps shiny looking games was always going to take a visual hit, this has perhaps been emphasised by the existence of the One X.  As someone who never upgraded from a base ps4 / xbox one s to the 4k variants, the visual leap to series x will be noticeable, and with 4K/60 it'll be a smooth and appreciated one too.This is a massive positive for console gaming imo, and one I hope ps5 follows.

 

I haven't watched the Xbox videos in 4k yet, but when I do, I expect they'll look better than they did last night on the 1080p youtube stream. The ps5 equivalents looked very much this generation until I did that too.

 

 

Microsoft are clearly trying something different. They are very much sticking with pushing Game Pass, and I honestly I could see it working, it's an amazing offer.

I think the biggest issue here is that Microsoft can't please everyone.  The games industry is changing, and we are a bunch of gamers.  We want newer, shinier games with new and inventive experiences and we want them now, but the game buying public, based on the sales figures, are happy with yet more GTAV or more remasters, or the next COD/NFS. 

 

Microsoft are giving us all a choice.

Buy a new console, get the games we already own for the last generation overhauled.  They'll look better and they'll run faster too.  Often the end of a generation has the best games too.

OR 

We can choose to not upgrade for a couple of years and stick with our older consoles but still play their new games.

What a time to be a gamer!

 

 

 

[CrichStand]

19 minutes ago, Isaac said:

 

Besides all the other guff you are talking, if the Lockhart rumours are true people won't be needing to buy a second £500 console - they can buy a Lockhart for £200-250.

By guff I’ll take it you mean common sense! Lol.

 

Fuck me! Why would they buy any new console if they can already play the games on their current Xbox and current Gamepass subscription? Plus, if they haven’t already bought an Xbox for the games currently on Gamepass, then why would they buy a next gen console to play last gen games they’re not interested in? Basically Microsoft HAVE to provide big exclusive AAA games to get people to buy their console. Sorry, but you’re not making any sense.
 

Like I say, I’ve been gaming since the early 80’s and have seen all this shit before. It comes down to a console that’s easy to develop for, that’s priced right, with exclusive games, good third party support and thus through that a large installed user base.
 

People went to 360 because it had all the above and the PS3 didn’t. People went PS4 over Xbox One for the same reasons.

 

Its not rocket science!

[CrichStand]

56 minutes ago, Revival said:

 

Where on earth do we get these people from? Awful.

 

Where have all of the exclusive games gone from the subscription service? You're talking tripe.

They’re still there! But if people haven’t already bought an Xbox to play them, then why will they suddenly buy a next gen Xbox to play them? And if you have already bought an Xbox to play them then why not just stick with your current Xbox? Think on duck!

[MattyP]

1 minute ago, Fully Aspel said:

Fuck me! Why would they buy any new console if they can already play the games on their current Xbox and current Gamepass subscription? 

 

To add to that what if MS actually released the x-Stream app for OLDER OG Xbox One consoles?

 

Gamers could continue to enjoy new content on the console as long as they wanted. MS are all about services and software as a service these days. Including gaming. Xbox is not longer just hardware.