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Football Thread 2020/2021


Gotters
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1 hour ago, Gotters said:

Do I get accused of having club goggles on for saying that was a pen and he didn’t dive ?

 

Funny timing though.

 

 


to quote you in your own thread regarding Bellerin’s over simulation: 

 

 

‘it will be a soft one that Mike Dean can't wait to give, 'minimal contact but the lad was smart and manufactured the contact to ensure the ref saw it'‘

 

I’m surprised you are able to lift your head straight what with the size of those ‘club goggles’ you’re wearing. 

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1 hour ago, DirkCrisis said:

Yes! We're playing Spurs with no strikers, 4 centre-backs and a goal keeper who was playing for Rochdale last season.

 

Mourhino won't have planned for this!

 

*90 minutes later*

 

Tottenham 7 Brighton 0


It’s not over yet, but two questionable VAR decisions...

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12 hours ago, Oh Danny Boy said:


to quote you in your own thread regarding Bellerin’s over simulation: 

 

 

‘it will be a soft one that Mike Dean can't wait to give, 'minimal contact but the lad was smart and manufactured the contact to ensure the ref saw it'‘

 

I’m surprised you are able to lift your head straight what with the size of those ‘club goggles’ you’re wearing. 

 

It appears I lent my goggles to Pogba for his post game interview

 

“I thought I would touch the ball but I didn’t. (I) cost us the goal today with the penalty."

“I felt like I touched him a bit, I knew I was in the box, I shouldn’t have given a penalty away like that."

“Maybe I was a bit out of breath, it made me do this stupid mistake. I will learn from that, I’m not the best defensively in the box, I can work on that.”

 

 

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Here is the Athletics take on what happened with VAR this weekend - if this is correct it further brings into question what the actual point is of the system in certain circumstances.

 

The referee’s decision takes precedence when it comes to diving

Fierce debate swirled after Mohamed Salah won and converted Liverpool’s penalty against West Ham on Saturday night, with Graeme Souness among those casting doubt on the award of a foul.

“I don’t give that if I’m a referee in the Premier League,” said Souness. “I’ve seen Salah do this time and time again. This is totally an unnatural way to fall.” Jamie Carragher disagreed, citing the clear contact from Arthur Masuaku.

As far as the officials go, it is regarded as a subjective call, and on that basis the on-field decision takes precedence. So on the night, VAR Chris Kavanagh did not suggest referee Kevin Friend take a look at the pitchside monitor. Conversely, had Friend decided against pointing to the spot it is unlikely Kavanagh would have intervened, as rules state not all contact is a foul. Callum Wilson’s penalty for Newcastle against Everton on Sunday fell into the same category.

Premier League officials do try to award free kicks for clear infringements even if fouled players stay on their feet, and simulation was discussed during pre-season. Players were warned that VAR would catch those attempting to deceive an official.

At Old Trafford during Manchester United’s defeat by Arsenal there were questions over whether VAR Peter Bankes checked Gabriel’s tackle on Nemanja Matic in the area, which Mike Dean ruled as fair. Bankes did and Gabriel was judged to get enough of the ball.

In a similar incident in Tottenham’s match against Brighton however, VAR Jonathan Moss invited referee Graham Scott to take another look after Tariq Lamptey scored following Solly March’s tackle on Pierre-Emile Hojbjerg. As The Athletic revealed earlier this season, a referee looking at the pitchside monitor is almost “a fait accompli” but Scott stuck by his original decision — despite Tottenham insisting March had committed a foul.

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43 minutes ago, Gotters said:

 

It appears I lent my goggles to Pogba for his post game interview

 

“I thought I would touch the ball but I didn’t. (I) cost us the goal today with the penalty."

“I felt like I touched him a bit, I knew I was in the box, I shouldn’t have given a penalty away like that."

“Maybe I was a bit out of breath, it made me do this stupid mistake. I will learn from that, I’m not the best defensively in the box, I can work on that.”

 

 


Keep wearing those goggles and wear them proud 

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@Gotters I have looked at both incidents again (repeatedly) and in both cases they made more of the contact to win the penalties. Bellerin is caught but still manages to plant his foot okay before tumbling over, Salah is caught and does over-exaggerate the dive, no question. But they are both caught, they both could've stayed on their feet but both chose to fall. Does the article you quote mention if the Arsenal penalty would've been overruled by VAR if not given on the pitch?

 

I mean, VAR is as unreliable as its always been, there's no story there and players of all clubs are going to make a meal out of any contact. Some do make more of a meal out of it - and Salah definitely does - but let's not pretend that any club is above this kind of stuff and more noble/honest/righteous than any other.

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On 31/10/2020 at 19:13, Mike1812 said:

Sad news today:

 

 

Elated at the semi-final win, but severely tempered by the news about Big Zal. Mad as a hatter, and looked like someone they had pulled in off the street when he first arrived, but won everyone over, and the look on his face just before he picked up the cup in 2012 said it all. He got it.

 

And thanks to @deerokus for picking Kevin Nisbet as the one to watch on Saturday. He certainly was. :D

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31 minutes ago, Butters said:

 

Elated at the semi-final win, but severely tempered by the news about Big Zal. Mad as a hatter, and looked like someone they had pulled in off the street when he first arrived, but won everyone over, and the look on his face just before he picked up the cup in 2012 said it all. He got it.

 

And thanks to @deerokus for picking Kevin Nisbet as the one to watch on Saturday. He certainly was. :D

Aye fair haha. 

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Mick McCarthy is the new coach of APOEL Nicosia.

 

I only post this because it reminded me that I've just finished "Champagne Football", the story of John Delaney and his running of the FAI, a tenure that ended with the FAI almost 50m in debt.  It's well worth a read to understand how the senior levels of management (not just football, but business) work in Ireland.

 

Among the stories was about the recruitment of Mick McCarthy in to the Ireland job in 2018.  The plan was that McCarthy would come in for a couple of years and then hand off to Stephen Kenny after Euro 2020.  There were two problems with this:

 

Delaney gave McCarthy a two year gig and lined up his replacement.  He also gave Robbie Keane an assistant position for four years at 250k a year, thus lumbering Kenny with someone he didn't want at half a million euro.

 

Delaney gave McCarthy a salary of 1.5m euro a year.  McCarthy said afterwards that he would have taken the gig for 500k.

 

Meanwhile the FAI were withholding prize money from Dundalk after their Europa League run in order to meet payroll.

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1 hour ago, neoELITE said:

Salah's an amateur.

 

I present Mr Zubar - once of Bournemouth and Plymouth Argyle.

 

But contact was made and he's got every right to go down, I'm sure the ball has violently struck him before like that and he didn't fling himself to the floor like that and he never got given a free kick or anything.

 

@Gabe I've got nowt more to say on the Salah one til he does it again next week. Just took another look at the Bellerin one and Pogba's reaction is fairly telling, no looking  round finger waving or making ball signs with his hands (maybe he simply doesn't care). Regarding Bellerin's feet I suspect he is doing a split second calculation having got clipped that says no point trying to stay on your feet running in this direction and location in the box, just stay down.

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, dogsout said:

Forget goggles. You're sitting in the corner, facing the wall with the club safety helmet on at this point. 

 

What is interesting is reading the various papers, sports websites & even Man Utd interviews this morning the only place I'm reading any controversy about Bellerin is in here, where I dared suggest a Liverpool player was a bit of a cheeky scally in an earlier game this weekend.

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I realise you don't care @Gotters, because you've made it quite clear before that you hate Liverpool, but I'm going to reply just more generally because I think this is an interesting discussion outside of club bias, and this has been another weekend where refereeing and VAR have far too much time devoted to discussing their failings.

 

Firstly, why would anywhere question the Man Utd stuff when Pogba has already accepted it was a penalty? Nobody's going to write "Well, he said that but we don't think it was," are they? But equally, just because other people didn't agree with the Salah incident doesn't mean it wasn't a penalty either. The Wilson foul being mentioned in the same Athletic article is interesting too because, like Salah, his fall is very theatrical (look for the little arch of his back) - but he was still hit by a player who is nowhere near the ball and impeded.

 

I reckon all three players (Salah, Bellerin and Wilson) could've stayed on their feet easily enough (Wilson has the best claim for not, mind) but none chose to because the likelihood of getting the foul had they done so is nigh-on impossible, despite the supposed encouragement from the Premier League to give free kicks even if players stay on their feet (and note that the article you quoted doesn't say penalties - because I don't think I've ever seen that happen).

 

But just within the Liverpool game, Mane was completely impeded by Cresswell - who didn't get, nor even attempted to get the ball - and yet nobody has really mentioned that either, despite that being far more of a foul in my eyes. Jota's disallowed goal was questionable, too - a foul given for not actually touching the goalkeeper (who dived on to Mane's leg) and even if Mane wasn't there, the keeper wasn't getting the ball. 

 

Or the fact that Marcus Rashford was wrestled to the ground by a player on a yellow card yesterday and didn't even get a free kick.

 

VAR and referees continue to miss stuff/make subjective calls on stuff/get stuff wrong. I think as you mentioned upthread though, the fact that subjective calls aren't questioned does rather diminish the whole point of trying to get more consistency, clarity and - for want of a better word - 'fairness' into games, and makes you question the whole point of it.

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Some honking decisions this weekend.

 

Harry Kane being the pick of a rotten bunch for me. He turned, looked exactly where Lallana was then backed into him, endangering Lallana if anything, how that's a foul on Kane is beyond my realms of comprehension.

 

Also contact shouldn't mean penalty, it just bloody shouldn't, thats why you have people throwing themselves around. 

 

They talk about contact because its black and white but football isn't, the force of the contact has to be considered. Was the contact enough to impede that person? Was it enough to knock that person off their feet or significantly disrupt the play?

 

It most cases this weekend. No, it wasn't.

 

VAR also needs to start giving out yellow cards for diving, even when minimal contact is involved.

 

All in all the standard of officiating has got worse since VAR came in, which takes some doing because they were utter shite before that too.

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17 minutes ago, Steely said:

 

 

 

 

VAR also needs to start giving out yellow cards for diving, even when minimal contact is involved.

 

All in all the standard of officiating has got worse since VAR came in, which takes some doing because they were utter shite before that too.

 

That is what is most upsetting to me. I'm a West Ham fan so have every right to be aggrieved. Was it a pen? I mean, Masuaku kicked the sole of his foot. It neither warranted Salah making the noise he did, nor the action he did and it was as soft as a eunuchs erection but OK, we'll give it. What really gets me is to my knowledge (and I'm sure Mr Crayola will correct me if I'm wrong) but there have only been two players banned for simulation. An Everton player (I think it was Bolasie?) and a West Ham player - Manuel Lanzini when he 'won' a penalty at Stoke and was subsequently banned (I'm going to say two(?) games).

 

Since then you still have your Kanes, your Salahs, your Sons, your Vardys. All the well known players that like to take a tumble to win something and nothing is ever done about it. No bookings, no bannings, nothing.  

 

About time these decisions were looked at again. I mean they were supposedly doing it three or four seasons ago so no reason they shouldn't be retroactively banning players if it appears they simulate to sway the ref (and that applies to any player, regardless of club).

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28 minutes ago, Scruff said:

Since then you still have your Kanes, your Salahs, your Sons, your Vardys. All the well known players that like to take a tumble to win something and nothing is ever done about it. No bookings, no bannings, nothing.  

Vardy Defence Force reporting for duty. 
 

We were denied a blatant penalty last year against Watford and Vardy was booked for diving. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Stopharage said:

Vardy Defence Force reporting for duty. 
 

We were denied a blatant penalty last year against Watford and Vardy was booked for diving. 

 

  :D

 

I knew I was going to get pulled up on Vardy. He got booked (and sent off for two yellows) when we played you in your title winning year (2-2) so he does occasionally get booked. He's either got cuter about it and doesn't do that blatant run across the defender and leave his leg hanging to be caught thing or he's stopped doing it as much due to the bookings.

 

The worst offender is Kane. He gets away with it as he's English but he is shockingly bad at making the most of minimal contact. Whether you do a Greg Luganis, encourage contact by deliberately tangling yourself up with an opposition player or try and con the ref by going down when someone breaths on you, it's all against the rules and should be punished.

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