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Football Thread 2020/2021


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From that Athletic Article

 

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Parry speculated on Sunday that there would be a single campaign, ahead of the proposed 2022-23 start date, where the Premier League would relegate four sides and the Championship would only promote two.

Which would mean next season would be that campaign.

 

Would be interesting as teams desperatly try to stay up before the drawbridge partially goes up and Championship decide whether to gamble on promotion which would be  a play-off gamble except for one team that went up automatically.

 

Also - the first season of the all new, all shit small Premier League would have the Qatar World Cup clusterfuck in the middle of it so really World Cup 18 to the end of the 18/19 domestic season can be considered the last 12 months of football as we know/knew it where the World Cup was in the Summer and the season was August to May and there were fans and all the cup competitions still existed and Southampton and West Ham weren't part of the Big 9.

 

 

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49 minutes ago, Sirloin said:

I think moving UEFA games to the weekend would be a very silly move. There’s only about 4 games a season in Europe that are interesting, and even then they aren’t of massive interest to a lot of neutrals.

 

I'd see it as yet another step towards an eventual superleague. Juventus v Barcelona in a group that also contains Dynamo Kyiv and Ferencvaros doesn't have anything of real consequence riding on it. That doesn't happen with a single league division where coming out on top means a lot more than just having a possibly more favourable draw in the round of 16.

 

In 1992 the biggest clubs in England led the breakaway that formed the Premier League so they could all have a bigger slice of the football money cake. 30 years later and they're all at it again, making the early 90s windfall look like the crumbs at the bottom of the cake tin.

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It's always horrific when you see the money that has flowed out of Utd as interest/debt repayments purely for the privilege of allowing the Glazers to buy them out and load them with debt.

 

This is income they'd have generated anyway regardless of the Glazers owning them or not (unless you think the Glazers are great and increased the income themselves) which flows straight out the door every season.

 

Without the debt piled on them their spending power would be frightening compared to other teams, they aren't exactly skint as things stands.

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On the one hand, I am utter horrified by the way the Glazers were allowed to buy Man Utd and asset strip it using Man Utd's own money. They were a well run club. 

 

On the other, I am eternally grateful to the Glazers for screwing the club up to the point they've missed on CL on a few occasions and live on a knife edge as worse. 

 

<Principal Skinner>I am a small, petty man. Wait... do you think they could change the rules so they can do Liverpool too? 

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Maybe I'm interpreting these plans wrong but it seems like they'd make a full on, breakaway European Superleague less likely? If the plans are adopted then the Big Six would basically control whats currently the biggest TV market in Europe and be able to keep it for themselves. If they join a superleague then presumably all the TV money would be pooled so the likes of Barcelona and Juventus would be able to demand a share of the English TV money? 

 

 

David Conns take on the proposals is interesting as he doesn't seem to be anywhere near as angry as you'd expect. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2020/oct/11/plan-to-mend-the-great-crack-in-football-pyramid-should-not-be-swept-off-the-table

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The Premier League was originally allowed because it made the threat of a full on breakaway top division less likely - it was the FA Premier League originally.  It is currently a full-on breakway top division, run by the clubs with the FA having a theoretical veto on some things.

 

I'd imagine that the CL distribution system would be the model that they're aiming for.

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27 minutes ago, bear said:

If the plans are adopted then the Big Six would basically control whats currently the biggest TV market in Europe and be able to keep it for themselves. 


To my mind this is the biggest flaw in the entire grubby little power grab.  The PL is the biggest TV market in Europe precisely because it is the most competitive out of the major leagues.  A team equivalent to Leicester would never win the league in Spain, France, Italy or Germany.  If you take away that USP and end up with a league where nobody outside these self ordained big six can realistically compete, then people will quickly start to lose interest and that TV market will fall away.

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On 11/10/2020 at 15:46, Gabe said:

Yeah, as a football fan first, but a Liverpool fan second, I'm really disappointed to read this. No surprise that a Glazer is involved too. Is this American-thinking coming into play?


I mean we are talking about a bunch of people who tried to trademark a terrace chant which took the tune from an 80s disco record  and who felt that the copyright to the name of a major English city should sit in the portfolio of a company based in fucking Delaware.  

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18 minutes ago, Waggo said:


To my mind this is the biggest flaw in the entire grubby little power grab.  The PL is the biggest TV market in Europe precisely because it is the most competitive out of the major leagues.  A team equivalent to Leicester would never win the league in Spain, France, Italy or Germany.  If you take away that USP and end up with a league where nobody outside these self ordained big six can realistically compete, then people will quickly start to lose interest and that TV market will fall away.


But not for ten years or so, by which time the people who made the deals will have cashed out.  

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2 hours ago, Dudley said:

Salford have sacked their manager despite currently being 5th in the league.

 

Because it appears Paul Scholes fancies another crack at management where he can't be sacked.

 

Not strictly true. Alexander resigned and Scholes is interim. Warren Joyce is likely to be promoted to the manager job but is currently isolating.

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39 minutes ago, Dudley said:

It's worth pointing out that quite apart from being some of the only premier league games normal people are now allowed to go to, the League Cup is also a fairly important revenue stream for the smaller teams.

 

And with FA cup going midweek for some rounds and them scraping replays the opportunity for money spinning ties is reduced further.

 

But who gives a fuck about Shrewsbury vs Liverpool or Wrexham vs Arsenal when we all really want to see Liverpool vs RB Salzburg in a dead rubber in the first Champions League group stage.

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And of course the FA cup going midweek is already going to stop people going to some games.  Meanwhile they're rigging the euro cups by adding the 3rd one so the bigger clubs don't have to lower themselves to playing any matches in any danger of being somewhat interesting.

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That Telegraph article is a depressing read. Further evidence that United is a soulless husk of a football club under the Glazers. And for all the positive vibes that Liverpool have garnered over the Klopp years, this is a poor PR move. Not that PR is what is important to either club but a focus on maximising the bottomline. Seeing the delight on a 33 year old Andy Considine's face as he played his first game for Scotland this week and Coady's shit-eating grin when he scored for England are the wonderful side of football; this is the increasingly shitty face of the game however. 

 

 

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Lots of complaints about these proposals, and I agree that there's a lot to be worried about in them, but what have the Premier League done for the last 6 months? Where are their proposals? Where are the proposals of the other 14 clubs? The reality is that they have come up with nothing and shown no willingness to help out the EFL clubs - the Crystal Palace chairman has even come out and questioned why they should have to. With the financial crisis for the EFL deepening by the week, the 'big 6' have stepped into into that gaping void and inevitably their proposals are tilted towards increasing their own influence.

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10 minutes ago, Marlowe said:

Lots of complaints about these proposals, and I agree that there's a lot to be worried about in them, but what have the Premier League done for the last 6 months? Where are their proposals? Where are the proposals of the other 14 clubs? The reality is that they have come up with nothing and shown no willingness to help out the EFL clubs - the Crystal Palace chairman has even come out and questioned why they should have to. With the financial crisis for the EFL deepening by the week, the 'big 6' have stepped into into that gaping void and inevitably their proposals are tilted towards increasing their own influence.

You'll have to forgive those of us who don't support the Big 6 that this is any more than a fairly cynical land grab. When Liverpool, Spurs and Arsenal are guilty of some pretty reprehensible approaches to furlough and redundancies, whilst also spending tens of millions on players, then any belief in their altruistic intentions is utter hogwash. 

 

The Premier League undoubtably need to assist the EFL. The resounding silence that addressed Macclesfield's demise was fairly damning. However it's naive to expect the wealthier clubs to come in and bankroll the fairly poor financial mismanagement that some clubs are guilty of. It's a shitshow admittedly and the PL should have been moire proactive than they have been so far. 

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The FSA add their bit. https://thefsa.org.uk/news/project-big-picture-a-sugar-coated-cyanide-pill/

 

Quote

Project Big Picture: A sugar-coated cyanide pill

Posted on 13th October 2020

Football is in crisis, many clubs desperately need financial support to help them survive, and the game’s wealth has to be shared more fairly – but the ‘Project Big Picture’ plans are not the answer and they would be an absolute disaster for our game.

The insatiable greed of a small handful of billionaire owners cannot be allowed to determine the structure of football in this country. 

Their desire to stitch things up behind closed doors, without even speaking to their fellow clubs, let alone fans, makes crystal clear the urgent need for the Government’s promised fan-led review of football governance.

We are not defending the status quo but ‘Project Big Picture’ is not the answer.

Supporters are open to new ideas to improve football’s governance but we don’t remember any fans making the argument that what football really needs, is for more money and power to be handed to the billionaire owners of our biggest clubs. That trend is already built into the system, and we need to stop it, not accelerate it further.

Within the proposals there are individual ideas which many fans would back – but in this form it is impossible to disentangle them from outcomes which would be a disaster for the game. 

Premier League impact

The Premier League would be reduced in size from 20 teams to 18 and more money would be directed towards the most successful teams, who in turn would hoover up even more of the best players, reducing competition throughout the entire league. 

League rules would be controlled by as few as six clubs who would gobble up a bigger share of the pie than they already do while abolishing the League Cup and Community Shield. 

The ruling clubs would be Arsenal, Chelsea, Everton, Liverpool, Manchester City, Manchester United, Southampton, Tottenham Hotspur, and West Ham, as determined by their length of service in the Premier League. Media reports suggest the plans are being driven by the owners at Liverpool and Manchester United. 

A vote by two-thirds of those clubs would dictate the rules for the rest, meaning half of the top-flight’s clubs would compete in a league which they had no say in running.

The named clubs would also control the “distribution rights of the sponsorship, commercial and broadcasting rights sold” and would be allowed to “alter in a material way the nature of the competition” which opens the door again to Game 39 or even madder schemes.

As six clubs can set the rules, who could stop them ending relegation from the Premier League and creating a franchise system like they have in US sports? No one. Who could stop them from rewriting the rules in a few years so that the top six keep all the media money? No one. Who could stop them cutting funding entirely to the EFL or grassroots football? No one. 

Supporters cannot let the greed of a few billionaire owners destroy our league system.

And what about the EFL?

For EFL clubs the impact could be even more drastic. While Project Big Picture dangles an alleged £250m “rescue fund” in front of clubs to cover lost revenues during the 2019-20 season they might actually be a sugar coated cyanide pill.

Apparently “money will be advanced to the EFL from increased future revenues”. Is there a guarantee that the money will even materialise? The entire package is based on projected revenues which are, in turn, based on the current media deal. Where is the guarantee that will happen? 

Under the proposals top-flight clubs retain eight games per season which they can sell directly via their own platforms, rather than broadcasting in the traditional manner. Would broadcasters pay more money for fewer games? It seems unlikely. Especially if the clubs chose to keep the rights for the games which are deemed most attractive to a global audience.

EFL clubs would also lose all League Cup revenue as that competition will be nuked, which in turn will see their own media revenues collapse, as broadcasters will not pay nearly as much for EFL rights, if the League Cup is no longer part of the package. Although maybe that wouldn’t matter as “the EFL irrevocably grants its broadcast rights to the EPL”!

Since six billionaire club owners can change the rules of the game at any time they like, and would control almost all of the revenue, there is no guarantee that they won’t pull up the drawbridge and cut funding entirely to the EFL, as it signed its own death warrant. 

The billionaire owners have created a set of rules they can change at any time. It’s a one way street and there is no way back for domestic football once that power is handed over.

The FSA

We wouldn’t reject all the ideas – a £20 away cap on top-flight tickets and subsidised travel, guaranteed away allocations, and safe standing areas are all things we back – but the reality is that the overall package is not acceptable to supporters. 

A rescue package for EFL and National League clubs is needed alongside better distribution of football’s wealth across the game to close the gap between the Premier League and the rest of the pyramid.

As an organisation we’re more than happy to consider changes to football’s structure but the place for that is the Government’s proposed fan-led review and it has to include all interested parties – fans, clubs, leagues, players, match officials, the FA, and so on. 

It is not acceptable for billionaire club owners to hatch a plan in secret and then try and use the fallout from a global pandemic to buy compliance from financially crippled clubs.

We will be making that case in the strongest possible terms to the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport, and all the football authorities, including the FA Council which meets on Thursday.

The Premier League and Government have to step up and deliver an alternative financial package urgently for the EFL and National League. It should cover lost gate receipts and matchday income. And urgently means details in hours, not days or weeks. Days or weeks means clubs going bust. Days or weeks means EFL clubs being tempted by the sugar-coated cyanide pill offered up by billionaire owners who do not understand or care about our football culture. 

It’s now or never.

 

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11 minutes ago, Art Vandelay said:

I hadn't realised the proposals include a nice little £125m and £30m kickbacks respectively to Spurs and Liverpool as retrospective payment for doing up their grounds. Wouldn't that be nice for everyone.

 

the only way anything like this comes together is that enough people get bunged to drop any objections - big 9 concept only leaves a few more PL teams to win over, a couple will fancy becoming one of them when West Ham inevitably drop at some point as they always do (its the 'big 6' plus 3 longest serving members)

 

average loses in League 1 are £3m per season, this plan offers them £3.5m each - thats them all signed up.

 

other interesting point is that the last domestic PL TV deal (Sky/BT/Amazon) was down in terms of money per match paid, the contract size was up though overall as they put more matches into it. the new smaller league will have to increase the amount of games on offer or go for streaming packages etc to keep the money heading higher, otherwise the pot of money to distribute will shrink. 

 

be interesting to see what comes of this, its a great wind up to get more power by the biggest (greediest) clubs - people can bleat all they want about them but there isn't a league without them of English teams that is any way the same level of attractiveness to TV - sure the mid/lower teams may be pissed off and threaten to breakaway themselves but its not threat, there will always be fodder willing to take their place at the top table for the scraps on offer. 

 

to be clear I'm not fully supportive of all of it by any means, but do see how change is needed and some of the ideas being raised are worthy of further discussion at least.

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5 minutes ago, Art Vandelay said:

I do wonder if the house of cards may start to wobble. You can't just keep showing more games to increase revenue. Barely anyone is watching the ones that are on now. 

 

it's an interesting thing that was written about a bit last year - people globally are drawn to the PL, and willing to pay in numbers greater than any other football league to subscribe to have access to it - but they don't all watch much of it.

 

it seems football is something people like paying for, talking about a lot, and watching a bit.

 

this thread talks about it a little

 

 

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