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Football Thread 2020/2021


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20 minutes ago, Gotters said:

 

I know 'mate', with counter arguments why it won't/shouldn't happen, which appears a far more likely outcome.

 

I genuinely don't know what you mean by this. Your take is that lower league clubs (ie clubs outside the prem) shouldn't receive any money. The disparity of wealth in football is a talking point for the ages, but now, of all times, is the moment you've decreed it shouldn't happen, because in your own words, you're not sure pumping in money to keep them on life support is in the long term good for the lower tiers.

 

And to back up your claim, you proffer an article which as I said, is 5 ways of pumping money into clubs to keep them on life support, and one suggestion of let them all burn.

 

You may think you have a logical argument here. You may be presenting this as a high-brow talking point for pondering on, perhaps over a Man United branded glass of port. But the magic football isn't about logic (and it certainly isn't about well-run business institutions). It's about feelings and emotion.

There's a lot of fans of non-premiership clubs in here and what you are missing is that, to us, it reads as if you're essentially saying 'Fuck the poor. Fuck you all. If you die, you die'. We've had a lot of that from Premier League institutions and fans over the years. Shocking news, we don't like it.

 

You're gonna get push back on that. And you're gonna have to own it.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Naysonymous said:

Could Wolves field an entirely Portuguese starting XI yet? 

 

I think we're one defender away.  2 if you don't count Miranda who hasn't played for us in well over a year.

 

Patricio

 

Semedo

Miranda

(New Portuwolves defender needed)

Vinagre

 

Podence

Moutinho

Vitinha

Neves

 

Neto

Silva

 

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The article I linked lists the only places that the money to save the lower leagues could possibly come from , with pro/cons to each argument.

 

I fall on the side that whilst clubs hold huge attachment for fans they have to operate within their own means as businesses (and I know that the sugar daddy owned clubs take the piss on that but its another subject) - the collective world of football not just in this country has gone mad with teams loading themselves up to the eyeballs on debt chasing the money from the next level up, to the point that very very few clubs in any league actually break even or turn a profit, yet everybody seems willing for that to continue for ever unchecked and unchallenged because its easier to say the money at the top should be distributed to all more evenly because its all football.

 

Football fandom isn't about logic, but unfortunately for fans accountancy and finances usually end up being so.

 

I'm not wishing any of the clubs to go to the wall, but it would appear to be the likely outcome with the path things are now on with COVID. I know for a fan that a club like Bury means more to them than the local Pizza Express closing due to the pandemic, but do not accept that the biggest teams have an ongoing responsibly to bail out those teams in the leagues below.

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Funnily enough, until the mid 80s, the clubs at the top did have that responsibility.  Or at least acknowledged it, through shared gate receipts, TV deals etc.  Then the PL came along and became literally a separate business.

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3 minutes ago, Plissken said:

Funnily enough, until the mid 80s, the clubs at the top did have that responsibility.  Or at least acknowledged it, through shared gate receipts, TV deals etc.  Then the PL came along and became literally a separate business.

Just had to look it up as recall it being part of the reason behind the split in the first place - they were paying half the TV deal to the clubs in the old div 2-4 (according to wikipedia)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premier_League_parachute_and_solidarity_payments

 

Guess that either sounds like the way things should be or an anachronistic approach to things depending on your viewpoint.

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29 minutes ago, Gotters said:

The article I linked lists the only places that the money to save the lower leagues could possibly come from , with pro/cons to each argument.

 

I fall on the side that whilst clubs hold huge attachment for fans they have to operate within their own means as businesses (and I know that the sugar daddy owned clubs take the piss on that but its another subject) - the collective world of football not just in this country has gone mad with teams loading themselves up to the eyeballs on debt chasing the money from the next level up, to the point that very very few clubs in any league actually break even or turn a profit, yet everybody seems willing for that to continue for ever unchecked and unchallenged because its easier to say the money at the top should be distributed to all more evenly because its all football.

 

Football fandom isn't about logic, but unfortunately for fans accountancy and finances usually end up being so.

 

I'm not wishing any of the clubs to go to the wall, but it would appear to be the likely outcome with the path things are now on with COVID. I know for a fan that a club like Bury means more to them than the local Pizza Express closing due to the pandemic, but do not accept that the biggest teams have an ongoing responsibly to bail out those teams in the leagues below.

Agree with this - not sure why football is so often treated like a special case rather than a business. The government did the same at the start of the pandemic when they singled out footballers as needing to start being more charitable (but not mentioning any other wealthy businesses/individuals).

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11 minutes ago, Gotters said:

Just had to look it up as recall it being part of the reason behind the split in the first place - they were paying half the TV deal to the clubs in the old div 2-4 (according to wikipedia)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premier_League_parachute_and_solidarity_payments

 

Guess that either sounds like the way things should be or an anachronistic approach to things depending on your viewpoint.

 

Clubs also split gate receipts 50/50 until comparatively recently - I want to say the mid 1980s, but I think that it is earlier but not much.

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As a side note to everyone else while we are on this topic:

Perhaps you're reading this and didn't know about these sorts of initiatives. And perhaps you are doing OK in lockdown. And perhaps you love your club and the community.

 

If so, why don't you google your team's trust, find one of their programs you like the sound of - perhaps football that helps disadvantaged kids, or food outreach programs, or help for those old and lonely. 

And sling them a tenner. 

 

You'll be ingraining yourself into your club, and I promise you'll feel fucking brilliant about it.

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good points @Pants McSkill about clubs and their community outreach programmes, and its what makes the football money debate so problematic as that stuff is great and supported by income/publicity from the playing side so ceases to function without it. 

 

but lets say the PL or clubs do put up £200m or some large amount to see the lower leagues thru the next few months, should it come with stipulations about how it can be spent, its to see the clubs through the season, to ensure no redundancies for non playing staff or reductions on these programmes (problematic as matchday employees simply aren't needed) or more importantly not to be spaffed on signing a new striker on a 3y contract from the Portuguese 3rd tier.

 

if the argument is accepted its to support the continuation of lower league football clubs then its fair to put some stipulations on what that looks like

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19 hours ago, Gotters said:

Sky report that Spurs paid for the Orient test, which was an incredibly sensible precaution on their part. Can see small teams being against this going forward if games get called off or even awarded against them - you can't have teams playing each other without testing, how is it not part of all football at present.

 

Yeah, if Orient lose their cup run for doing the right thing, no team that can get away with it will ever test again. 

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32 minutes ago, Gotters said:

 

but lets say the PL or clubs do put up £200m or some large amount to see the lower leagues thru the next few months, should it come with stipulations about how it can be spent, its to see the clubs through the season, to ensure no redundancies for no playing staff or reductions on these programmes (problematic as matchday employees simply aren't needed) or more importantly not to be spaffed on signing a new striker on a 3y contract from the Portuguese 3rd tier.

 

 

If it was handled by an independent body, I think this would be a very wise approach.

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1 hour ago, Boothjan said:

 

I think we're one defender away.  2 if you don't count Miranda who hasn't played for us in well over a year.

 

Patricio

 

Semedo

Miranda

(New Portuwolves defender needed)

Vinagre

 

Podence

Moutinho

Vitinha

Neves

 

Neto

Silva

 

 

Having Miranda in there makes this look like you are 3-4 seasons into a Master League but still can't bring yourself to get rid of the one player who was the standout in your starting squad.

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It's worth also pointing out that a lot of football grounds are in danger from outside investors (mentioning no Burys or Yorks) who see them as prime locations for "redeveloping" into housing.  There is a scheme to get a lot of them marked as - and I'll get the name wrong - Protected Community Assets or suchlike because they and their associated clubs are valuable places for the town to congregate every two weeks or more often.

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Millwall very nearly ceased to exist a couple of years ago when Lewisham council issued a compulsory purchase order on the ground around the stadium and sold it to a housing company called Renewal.

 

It was only after months of digging by Guardian journalist Barney Ronay that it was revealed the majority of Lewisham Councillors who voted this through, had ties to or stakes in the company.

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18 minutes ago, Pants McSkill said:

Millwall very nearly ceased to exist a couple of years ago when Lewisham council issued a compulsory purchase order on the ground around the stadium and sold it to a housing company called Renewal.

 

It was only after months of digging by Guardian journalist Barney Ronay that it was revealed the majority of Lewisham Councillors who voted this through, had ties to or stakes in the company.


A Labour council too, IIRC.

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13 minutes ago, Plissken said:


A Labour council too, IIRC.

 

It's one of the safest Labour seats in the country, both at parliamentary and council levels. Problem is it's two miles from Tower Bridge so someone somewhere is always going to want to "gentrify" the area and make a bloody fortune on selling luxury flats. 

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I don't think being near the empty Canary Wharf is quite the draw it was a year or two back - it's got the largest over supply of new build apartments in London with lots of international buyers who bought off plan looking to flip before completion stuck losing deposits or selling on at a discount.

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11 hours ago, Boothjan said:

 

I think we're one defender away.  2 if you don't count Miranda who hasn't played for us in well over a year.

 

Patricio

 

Semedo

Miranda

(New Portuwolves defender needed)

Vinagre

 

Podence

Moutinho

Vitinha

Neves

 

Neto

Silva

 

 

It's actually possible as Christian Marques is eligible to play for Portugal 

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What's going on with Mario Gotze? Feels like as a free agent he'd be being pulled in all directions. Unless his stats have been forcefully prized apart and people don't like the look of what's been exposed. Always looked comfortable making things happen in the hole etc.

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