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Football Thread 2020/2021


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1 minute ago, footle said:

 

International teams, and there's no-one local knocking on the door.

 

Yeah, although arguably Six Nations could use relegation just to relieve Italy as being the constant bottom of the table team. 

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I see that UEFA has postponed announcing the full list of venues for the Euros "...[to] settle some things from three possible venues who might be excluded."

 

Shots fired, indeed.

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Just now, Gabe said:

I see that UEFA has postponed announcing the full list of venues for the Euros "...[to] settle some things from three possible venues who might be excluded."

 

Shots fired, indeed.

I think thats the countries that won't commit to fans rather than this.

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6 minutes ago, Shimmyhill said:


Your thread is on page 3 mate, this is the premier league thread ;) 

Have Norfolk fc even played in Europe? Let alone won the uefa cup ;)

oj, you’re doing ok now and ipswich are, well, fucking awful would be an understatement.... but that trophy cupboard once contained the fa cup and the uefa cup... they’ve got more claim the the ESL the Spurs ;) 

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1 hour ago, McCoy said:

 

Would be a massive statement of intent but I agree with you. 

 

I also think ultimately Fifa won't have the balls to ban players from the World Cup or the Premier League to boot the teams out. 

 

I think the idea is terrible and hope it dies a swift death but I do think there is a difference between the rhetoric currently being said and actual reality at the end of the day. 

 

UEFA don't help themselves for the also pretty terrible revamp of CL they have been pursuing. 

 

I reckon the clubs will continue in the CL this season, any affected players will be allowed in the Euro finals this summer, and any Super League-induced consequences will only kick in from the 2021/2022 season. It's much easier to write off impacts on the earlier competitions for now, as time is so short to do anything about them and any court battles could get very ugly very quickly. They can endeavour to get the required legal protections in place for next season, as it will doubtless be quite the legal fight when/if clubs and players are excluded from competitions, and there's a few months to sort things out.

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47 minutes ago, Shimmyhill said:


I do watch some e-sports and you may have a point but it’s not like e-sport is a new thing on the up challenging traditional sports as while it’s gaining some momentum it’s been going years and in that time football has become richer, bigger and gained viewers/supporters at a rate e-sports would love. It feels more like mobile gaming will kill gaming attitude when it’s fairly clear they are different enough to survive alongside each other with loads of cross over support.

 

I will not suddenly support my fave Apex team, Fortnite squad etc etc in the way I support my football team should Spurs continue in the ESL but move my support fully to my local team Norwich who are my second team in any case - unless they get in the ESL.....

 

But we're doing it again

 

YOU won't.

 

Kids, especially those born in the 20s? Quite possibly.  eSports isn't new, new but it's newer than football.  As a big thing it's what a decade old?  How big was "Soccer" in 1873? The first English League season as we understand it came along 25 years after football's creation as the (near enough) rules we know.

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32 minutes ago, McCoy said:

 

Yeah, although arguably Six Nations could use relegation just to relieve Italy as being the constant bottom of the table team. 

 

Its Rugby though, who would replace Italy?  There isn't enough international teams out there, let alone quality ones.  Italy were only let in cos they seemed semi-decent.  Everyone else is literally not good enough.

 

(unfortunately) Rugby isn't on the same level as football in terms of teams and numbers playing.

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Here is the letter apparently sent to all Liverpool staff this morning

 

Dear Colleagues,

You will be aware of the announcement published late last night regarding Europe’s leading football Clubs coming together to establish a new mid-week competition, the European Super League, governed by its Founding Clubs.

It’s important as a member of our team that I share with you some of the context.

For quite some time now, Clubs, including our own, have held numerous longstanding concerns about not only the future of European football but also the way football is run by UEFA. The global pandemic has also accelerated the instability in the existing European football economic model.

We have therefore joined AC Milan, Arsenal, Atletico Madrid, Chelsea, Barcelona, Inter Milan, Juventus, Manchester City, Manchester United, Real Madrid and Tottenham Hotspur as Founding Clubs of the Super League. It is anticipated that a further three Clubs will join ahead of the inaugural season, which is intended to commence as soon as practicable.

The Super League will be the future of European football and if we want to continue our journey of being a sustainable Club with ambition to grow and continue winning trophies then we should absolutely be part of that process and have a seat at the table rather than outside that group.

The new annual tournament will provide significantly greater economic growth and support for European football via a long-term commitment to uncapped solidarity payments which will grow in line with league revenues. These solidarity payments are expected to be roughly three times what is currently achieved from UEFA competitions. One of the core commitments of the European Super League is to vastly increase financial support for the football pyramid.

After the start of the men’s competition, a corresponding women’s league will also be launched, helping to advance and develop the women’s game.

We know that this announcement has provoked strong feelings within the game and elsewhere but we believe this decision is in the best long-term interests of Liverpool Football Club.

Importantly, this is the beginning of the journey and we can now start an engagement process with you, supporters and key stakeholders to help shape this process in the right way.

There is still much more information to come in due course.

I will keep you updated as we progress on this journey and discuss further on our Town Hall tomorrow.

Thank you for your continued support.

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Out of interest, what are the potential legal challenges against banning the clubs? Isn't membership of national leagues by application - so the Premier League there's no given-right to being allowed entry? Likewise for international tournaments, players can easily just not be picked, right? I can imagine it would come down to employment law/restriction of movement or something (and discrimination for the international situation)?

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Is it even legally possible for teams that are already signed up to the Premier League, La Liga, etc. and who are legally obligated to play these games in these competitions to be able to unilaterally go off and play in another competition that isn't sanctioned?  Has anyone answered that one?

 

Surely if Liverpool FC Ltd (for example) want a team in the Super League they can go and create a new team, Merseyside Reds, and fill that with unaffiliated players and go play them in that, but they can't take Liverpool FC into this made-up competition?

In the same way Liverpool FC can't go and collectively play in a knockabout, why do they think they can go and play in some competition that no one has sanctioned?  If they can do this, why haven't any of these clubs gone over to the States, or any other league in the world, and played football in their league there?

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4 hours ago, Waggo said:

The designating of existing fans as Legacy fans tells you all that you need to about where this is ultimately going. 

 

Buy the United/Arsenal season pass and get discounts on early access content, loot boxes, and a 15% discount to your Legacy Fans exclusive insider offers. Upgrade to the ultimate platinum Legacy pack and get all the goodies before everyone else including exclusive streaming of the A1/Beyonce halftime show. 

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I grew up close to White Hart Lane and have been a Spurs fan for over 40 years now. Used to work at the ground on match days when I was a teenager. Been to hundreds of matches home and away. Old enough to remember the teams of the (relatively) glorious 80s and persevered through the barren times of late. This is a very sad day.

 

If this isn't brinkmanship (and it doesn't appear to be) then this is going to run and run as the legal challenges rack up but when it comes to it, will the Premier League kick out the 'big 6'? I'm not so sure. It would devalue their 'product' and I'm not sure they would take the risk.

 

And will FIFA really stop Super League players from appearing in Internationals? Again, I think that's quite a risky strategy. How many of the world's top players won't be at the next World Cup if they did? And not just the European teams either - lots of high profile African and Asian players at the Super League clubs now, not to say Messi, Ronaldo, et al.

 

 

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Sorry i just find this funny. The use of Founding Clubs evoking too much Founding Fathers, that they need to replace Uefa for European football because it's not run well and only they can do it properly, citing the financial imperative which is because they're actually so badly run most of them are in severe debt. The website with the club crests that eternally switch from one Founding Club to another, like the new guardians of football, here to rescue us all.

 

The exploitative use of the women's game to suggest they’re progressives and insisting that 'one of the core commitments of the European Super League is to vastly increase financial support for the football pyramid' as though anyone responding to this thinks cementing themselves at the core of this new adventure is about the lower leagues. 

 

I find a lot of the outrage performative tbh. We should never have allowed 100+ year clubs to be majority owned by overseas investors. It's crazy to me at least 51% fan ownership wasn't imposed long ago. Where were the government's concerns when the Glazers took over Man United? Now they apparently are absolutely on it, 'doing everything they possibly can'. 

 

They even appear to understand which people will like hearing but for me i just think; well if you know this why haven't you done anything? 

 

Quote

“These clubs are not just great global brands – of course they’re great global brands – they’re also clubs that have originated historically from their towns, from their cities, from their local communities. They should have a link with those fans, and with the fanbase in their community. So it is very, very important that that continues to be the case.”

 

Did they miss the last 25 years? And who reads that and doesn't just laugh at it coming from the tories? 

 

A few years ago i listened to an interview with the first communications officer at La Liga, a 'veteran' who came from Netflix and who is for Barcelona and Real Madrid playing games overseas. We keep using the word greed when none of these people remotely think in those terms. We already know this. Everything for them is about growth. Standing still is not an option. All our outrage is about loss of power and I'd rather focus on taking that back, not flipping out over apparent greed as though we didn't already know their whole purpose is to make more money for themselves. Not even focus on points reductions and banning as that doesn't address power either.

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2 minutes ago, Loik V credern said:

We keep using the word greed when none of these people remotely think in those terms. We already know this. Everything for them is about growth. Standing still is not an option.

 

That's literally a definition of greed.

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I find this funny. Fuck UEFA. They are just scared they won't get all the money. 

 

They don't give two shits about racism in football. Then when the possibility of them not controlling everything is at hand they go mental. 

 

Fuck them. 

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7 minutes ago, Loik V credern said:

I find a lot of the outrage performative tbh. We should never have allowed 100+ year clubs to be majority owned by overseas investors. It's crazy to me at least 51% fan ownership wasn't imposed long ago. 

 

I'm not too up on football history so please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm assuming at one point in time all Clubs were fan owned. Hence the term Club. 

 

I imagine at some point in time the fans decided to sell ownership, either for profit or to someone who can invest further into the Club and its that decision which has led to American owners etc. Therefore the current pleas for ownership to be returned to fans is slightly hypocritical. 

 

And fans are their own worst enemies sometimes. Wanting Clubs to spend hundreds of millions on a new striker but bemoaning the fact that the people paying transfer fees and wages ultimately want/need to make money themselves. 

 

How many Manchester City fans were up in arms when their new owners were pouring millions into the Club so that it would eventually be able to win the Premier League. They were probably broadly happy to be controlled by a profit hungry corporate machine at that point. Reap what you sow etc. 

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5 minutes ago, Ry said:

I find this funny. Fuck UEFA. They are just scared they won't get all the money. 

 

They don't give two shits about racism in football. Then when the possibility of them not controlling everything is at hand they go mental. 

 

Fuck them. 

 

UEFA President is angrymad.

 

Quote

Ceferin was even blunter when talking about the Juventus chairman, Andrea Agnelli. “He’s probably the biggest disappointment of all,” he said. “I don’t want to be too personal. But the fact is I’ve never seen a person lie so many times, so persistently. That he did was unbelievable. I spoke with him on Saturday afternoon. He says: ‘These are only rumours. Don’t worry, nothing is going on.’ And then he said: ‘I’ll call you in one hour.’ And he turned off the phone. Next day, we get the announcement. I’ve seen many things in my life but not a situation like that. Obviously, greediness is so strong that all the human values evaporate.”

 

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1 hour ago, MikeBeaver said:

Have Norfolk fc even played in Europe? Let alone won the uefa cup ;)

oj, you’re doing ok now and ipswich are, well, fucking awful would be an understatement.... but that trophy cupboard once contained the fa cup and the uefa cup... they’ve got more claim the the ESL the Spurs ;) 


Well, you must recall Norwich knocking out Bayern Munich in the uefa cup? I assume Norwich won it after that but couldn’t see the next games...

 

I think you will find Spurs have many more FA cups and uefa cups than Ipshit, maybe it was Arsenal and their lack of European pedigree you got confused about ;) 

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It's crazy really as Arsenal have been my family team since my Grandad and Great Uncle were boys, which would be knocking on for 100 years ago now give or take. My mum grew up in a block within sight of the old ground and they've always been a huge part of my life. Dodging the horse shit and having a hot dog on the way to a game were some of my favourite memories with my old man. I think it's been understandable to get melodramatic in the past about your club being lost when you got new owners or Sky took the piss, but this is the first time I think the entity that is Arsenal football club has been officially removed from the fans. We lost complete control last year when there was a mandatory sale of individual shares, but this is different. Do I even need to care about the rest of the season? It seems crazy to contemplate that I was really invested yesterday if we won the Europa as it would be a big step forward for the team, but now I guess it doesn't matter. It's like an instant taste of the meaningless of it all. 

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WHo is actual going to adjudicate this league.

 

Opening day and Suarez bites Marcus Rashford and does some racism - whats the punishment/who decides it.

Spurs sign the next Messi, but then Real Madrid poach him. Who sorts it out?

There is a big row over which guest teams to invite.

The 6 English clubs stick together and only need 2 other clubs from the 15 to make all the decisions.

Juventus bribe the referee in the semi final against Man City while Arsenal win the other semi final when one of their players recreates Kanu's infamus goal against Sheffiled United in the FA Cup. Who decides if it should be replayed.

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Waggo said:

PL meeting to be held via Zoom tomorrow, but only 14 clubs have been invited to attend.  Sign of things to come?

Roy Hodgson most likely to be on mute when trying to speak.

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22 minutes ago, Loik V credern said:

A few years ago i listened to an interview with the first communications officer at La Liga, a 'veteran' who came from Netflix and who is for Barcelona and Real Madrid playing games overseas. We keep using the word greed when none of these people remotely think in those terms. We already know this. Everything for them is about growth. Standing still is not an option. All our outrage is about loss of power and I'd rather focus on taking that back, not flipping out over apparent greed as though we didn't already know their whole purpose is to make more money for themselves. Not even focus on points reductions and banning as that doesn't address power either.

 

Yep.  In fact the stupid thing is that the reason they want "moar" money is because they constantly spend it and therefore go into debt.  Maybe if they run their clubs better they wouldn't need so much more money coming in.  Which is why I'm wondering that in these circumstances these sort of clubs should be deliberately hobbled to stop them spending what they don't have.  So they'll have "lean" years, ah well, boo fucking hoo maybe if they start to save money they'll learn.  Maybe not, cos the clubs are fuckers.

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27 minutes ago, McCoy said:

I'm not too up on football history so please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm assuming at one point in time all Clubs were fan owned. Hence the term Club.

 

It's more that they were player owned - the club was formed for the benefit of the playing members, as a way of organising a game of football (or cricket, rugby, or any other sport you care to name). That's when the clubs weren't formed as works teams for the employees of a company, which even if not organised directly by the company were often funded by them - Manchester United started life in this way.

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