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Football Thread 2020/2021


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Never thought I'd be saying it this soon, but it feels pretty bloody good to be a Bolton Wanderers fan at the moment! Pretty much the entirety of the last decade can be written off as pure shite, but at least now we've hit form at the right time and hopefully momentum will take us into the top 3 - We play Forest Green at the weekend and a win would take us above them if they lose tonight and possibly into 3rd depending on the Tranmere results, although they have Colchester and Mansfield coming up, so highly unlikely.

 

Promotion this year, consolidate ourselves in League One next year and a promotion push the year after would do me.

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16 minutes ago, Gotters said:

Stone waller, look at the contact, scythed him down, clever, drew the contact, if the defender goes down he gives him an option. Cheat

 

 

It's a clear penalty. Kane makes a mess of controlling it and the defender makes a needless foul. I'm not sure it's some sort of convoluted evil plan. 

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I've never seen one like that. Run after the ball with the intention to cross it but in the last moment seemingly miss the ball for no reason to step over to the sliding defender. I'm sure one of the best striker's in the world whose movement is always so deliberate has just accidentally done that. 

 

I'm sure of Kane's niceness in real life, that David Beckham thing of listening intently to esteemed ex professionals, something that so impresses people like Graham Souness even though he shouldn't be able to pass judgement (i saw some videos on Twitter the other day of his worst tackles, oh my god what an honest to god absolute fucking unhinged psychopath fuck me how is he allowed on tv?????!!?), but Kane's cuntness/punditry term gamesmanship on the pitch is so clear now. He must feel the desperation of his trophy less career but he's mostly committing these acts randomly in games and in moments that don't warrant them really. Not like he's saving a dive for a world cup final or anything. 

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12 minutes ago, Stoppy2000 said:

It's a clear penalty. Kane makes a mess of controlling it and the defender makes a needless foul. I'm not sure it's some sort of convoluted evil plan. 

 

totally agree its not some convoluted evil plan, its actually a very simple evil plan - he cheats and keeps getting rewarded for it so keeps doing it more as it works.

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3 hours ago, Stoppy2000 said:

It's a clear penalty. Kane makes a mess of controlling it and the defender makes a needless foul. I'm not sure it's some sort of convoluted evil plan. 

 

Of course he meant it. :lol:

 

The ball goes out of play with his pointless step over. 

 

Dunno why people excuse the deliberateness of professional players. They're professionals. All the back of leg rakes, all the high boots and late tackles, all the times a player clashes with another then stands on their leg as they're getting up, most of the penalties when forwards lean over, anticipate the tackle and allow it...all deliberate imo. 

 

edit: watching it on my laptop, not my phone, i do see the apparent attempt to pull the ball back. Still not buying a pro of his calibre just missing the ball though when so much of Kane's game is protecting the ball. He's not gonna move into the player unless he wants to. 

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28 minutes ago, Stoppy2000 said:

What's the cheating part exactly? Was it a dive? Even villa didn't complain about it. I know there is a big anti-Kane contingent here but come on...

 

Whether it's cheating or gamesmanship I'm not bothered. I'm not holding it against Kane. The defender did indeed slide to block the cross and Kane did indeed find his way into his path and did fall over and it did indeed deny a goal scoring opportunity...

 

I'm not anti Kane. I really like watching him, that deliberate nature of his touches is what i like most in players. He scores spectacular or very smart technical goals. 

 

Villa players didn't complain because they know that's accepted now. 

 

People hate the hypocrisy. That foreign players are pointed to be uniquely immoral fiends when all the England greats, Gerrard, Rooney, Owen dived and were vicious tacklers. Well not Owen on the vicious tackling. 

 

Kane should be called out because he's ramped up his random acts of violence and the backing into players to take their legs away was genuinely dangerous. And he's never been punished for them so won't stop doing it. Just checking, he's never been sent off? I read 32 yellow cards in his career too, which isn't a lot. Never been sent off but some of these tackles should have led to bans, retrospectively even. 

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"I still feel we should have a free-kick before their second goal on Matt Targett, if he learns to go down... it's a penalty, Harry's miscontrolled it and he catches him. If Matt Targett goes down on the touchline maybe it doesn't even get there." 

Not my words (or even the words of Top Gear Magazine) - the words of Dean Smith. He sure sounds like he's raging against a massive injustice. Maybe Kane could be retrospectively punished somehow. He's never been sent off so it's about time we started dishing out bans. 

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2 minutes ago, Stoppy2000 said:

"I still feel we should have a free-kick before their second goal on Matt Targett, if he learns to go down... it's a penalty, Harry's miscontrolled it and he catches him. If Matt Targett goes down on the touchline maybe it doesn't even get there." 

Not my words (or even the words of Top Gear Magazine) - the words of Dean Smith. He sure sounds like he's raging against a massive injustice. Maybe Kane could be retrospectively punished somehow. He's never been sent off so it's about time we started dishing out bans. 

 

Is he giving his opinion based on what he saw live or the replays? Anyway, i don't care what he thinks. I think it's clear Kane meant that, but the penalty is not the sole reason Spurs won the game. I think Dean Smith is just accepting of that. 

 

If you don't think Kane backing into players in mid air and taking their legs away is dangerous and could lead to a player breaking their neck or being paralysed, then you're blinded by loyalty and bias. (As a Man United fan) If Rashford was doing this I'd be calling it cuntish behaviour, why are fans so defensive? 

 

If you don't think him evading bans for doing it will lead to him continuing to do it, then i think that's hopeful. And he does keep doing it. 

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Do you acknowledge @Stoppy2000 the difference between a striker being taken out on the path they are travelling as opposed to one deliberately changing direction to fall over a leg, where the leg is somewhere they wouldn't have gone unless there was a chance to fall over it ?

 

If you don't accept this happens at all in football or think its a pen if they do it then  there is no discussion to have about Kane or any of the others. If you see legs as striker magnets they are allowed to fall over even if not running that way and that gets them pens always then I at least understand your myopic view towards Kane.

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Kane chose a good chance of a penalty over trying to keep a ball in play.  You can decide what manner and degree of dickhead that is, if at all.

 

Of course the opposition player was an absolute idiot for giving him that choice when he wasn't in a scoring position.

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I just think this is one of the least controversial penalties given in recent memory. If it wasn't Kane then nobody would even be mentioning it. (Unless it was Salah, Sterling or Fernandes I guess). Bizarre. 

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3 minutes ago, Stoppy2000 said:

I just think this is one of the least controversial penalties given in recent memory. If it wasn't Kane then nobody would even be mentioning it. (Unless it was Salah, Sterling or Fernandes I guess). Bizarre. 

 

I think that people have been bludgeoned into submission at accepting this should be a pen because so many of the 'top top' players have it in their locker. Its not a good PR look for the TV stations or even the refs association to constantly call them what they are, which is cheats, so it gets passed off as clever and justified by fans blind to their own teams failings because 'so and so did it to us a few months back' so they feel its some karmic justice. 

 

Karmic justice is when the players benefitting from it punching down to smaller teams get refused proper pens in big games because they've got themselves a rep as being cheats. 

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One thing I will agree on is that the punishment for this foul doesn't really fit the offence. But these are the rules we are stuck with and it would be tricky to start adding an extra level of granularity to penalty decisions. 

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1 hour ago, Stoppy2000 said:

What's the cheating part exactly? Was it a dive? Even villa didn't complain about it. I know there is a big anti-Kane contingent here but come on...

 

It's not cheating, he bought the penalty but football has been like that for years now.  Kane is just one of those figures who gets a lot of hate from people who don't think he gets enough hate for being a bit of a shithouse.  Cash slid in to block the cross and Kane missed the ball, whether Kane then decided to initiate contact and win the penalty is something only he will know, but that kind of behaviour is what people do to get on in the world. It's not a surprise to anybody at this point and nor should it be.  

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I think penalties as a whole need looking at. To be given pretty much a free goal for a small indiscretion in the box seems mad most of the time. A legitimate tactic is just to give the ball to a lad who can beat a man and get him in the box to draw a foul. I can't remember who it was against and I'm not singling him out, but Sterling did it the other week when his only goal was to get past that line and go over. There's was no chance of scoring and no other player was within 30 yards of supporting him. It's not great to watch. People moan at Allardyce as he's distilled football into just getting a cross into the box as quick as humanly possible, but this is every bit as base as that, only it's really good teams and players doing it, not 7 foot cloggers with no other option.

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5 hours ago, Superfamifreak said:

Never thought I'd be saying it this soon, but it feels pretty bloody good to be a Bolton Wanderers fan at the moment! Pretty much the entirety of the last decade can be written off as pure shite, but at least now we've hit form at the right time and hopefully momentum will take us into the top 3 - We play Forest Green at the weekend and a win would take us above them if they lose tonight and possibly into 3rd depending on the Tranmere results, although they have Colchester and Mansfield coming up, so highly unlikely.

 

Promotion this year, consolidate ourselves in League One next year and a promotion push the year after would do me.

 

How's Antony Sarcevic playing?  I was surprised he left us for Bolton but I think you've got a half decent squad there now. He was frustrating at times but I think 95% of our fan base absolutely loved him. Doyle up front was a coup too - he was lethal for Swindon last season. 

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1 hour ago, Art Vandelay said:

I think penalties as a whole need looking at. To be given pretty much a free goal for a small indiscretion in the box seems mad most of the time. A legitimate tactic is just to give the ball to a lad who can beat a man and get him in the box to draw a foul. 

 

I said this a couple of weeks back, pens are converted at around 80%, it's quite hard to create a chance in open play with 0.8xG so with football playing the stats now as it does we're seeing this deeply cynical exploitation of the percentages, and its really really dull. 

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I thought the whole point in VAR was correcting obvious mistakes like that.

 

I am surprised people are hand waving it away as what happens in football - it is very rare for there to be such a blatant example as that. Kane has literally given up possession of the ball in order to move into a defender making a normal attempt to block the cross.

 

Saying that the defender has been stupid here is just bizarre to me - should defenders no longer try to block crosses by sliding well away from an attacker?

 

No attack was impeded by the actions of the defender as the only way contact could be initiated was by Kane giving up possession so the ball was going off the pitch.

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yep. looks to me he's moving towards the defender rather than the ball. if he'd managed to do that and still get the ball then maybe there's more of a shout for a penalty, although still a bit dodgy.

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1 hour ago, Stoppy2000 said:

So there is a genuine belief that Kane deliberately left the ball behind to go for the penalty? :blink:

 

Yes.  He's smart enough to know the full back is going to attempt to block the cross so fuck it, why not?  

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I just think he's trying to do the chop back to cut inside the defender and completely messed it up. He then gets lucky because the defender has already committed. I mean none of us will never know so it's a bit of a moot point really. 

 

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30 minutes ago, Stoppy2000 said:

I just think he's trying to do the chop back to cut inside the defender and completely messed it up. He then gets lucky because the defender has already committed. I mean none of us will never know so it's a bit of a moot point really. 

 

Yeah, watching it a few times and I do think this is what he was intending to do but just messed up controlling the ball. The rolling around clutching his shin was a bit embarrassing though.

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