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Football Thread 2020/2021


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3 hours ago, feltmonkey said:

There was something similar a couple of years ago in a match between Spurs and Liverpool, where the ball was played through towards an offside Kane but it was passed straight to Lovren instead.  Lovren went to play it forward, but because he's Lovren he somehow managed to propel it backwards straight to Kane who scored.  The goal was given, and it all hinged on Lovren making a deliberate effort to play the ball.  Mings deliberately controlled it so Rodri became onside.  It is kind of crazy when you look at it - Mings wasn't in control of the ball, and it hadn't even hit the ground before Rodri picked his pocket.  My initial reaction was to be furious that it wasn't disallowed as well.

 

If Mings had just headed it away it wouldn't have been a problem, of course.  It's his mistake, ultimately.

 

But I'd argue Mings plays that because he knows Rodri is there. Like you said, it doesn't even touch the floor or is undercontrol and Rodri is making a b-line striaght for it. He goes straight for the ball in an offiside posstion. He's taking advantage of being 10 years offside to tackle from behind.

 

As I've said, all season they've been giving offsides for ones that you can't even tell without moving lines to make them offside and yet this ones given without a second thought. 

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They didn't take advantage of an obscure rule in fairness. The just took the benefit from the officials being bent.

Or perhaps they just forgot that a player challenging a defender from an offside position is still offside.. 

 

Or they're incompetent.

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Mings is challenged by him returning from offside. He doesn't receive the ball (as you might expect from a back pass).

 

Mings absolutely fucked up, he should have just cleared it, but the guy was offside.

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Yeah, they need to update the rules here - he's a mile offside and basically only comes back to challenge for the ball (it's perfectly possible that Mings saw him, but thought he was so far offside he wasn't a danger at all and he had time to bring the ball down etc). He didn't play the ball to him or mess up - he was tackled by a guy coming back from miles away - It should be flagged offside any day of the week, and it needs fixing.

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I'm looking forward to the concept of the offside forward. A player whose job is entirely to sit behind the defence to tackle from offside and intercept backpasses.

 

All while we also literally split hairs over whether someone is a pube offside when recieving the ball.

 

Completely farcical.

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21 minutes ago, Naysonymous said:

I do wonder if training grounds the world over will be full of pros trying to figure out if they can incorporate tackling from offside positions into their game this morning.  

 

Ashley Barnes gets whistled for it a lot.  I look forward to the refs implementing this rule consistently and causing the stat of his fouls committed per game dropping into double figures.

 

@Timmo - it was more a comment on the number of times the officials bend over to find a reason not to penalise Citeh "I would have thought that would be disallowed, Clive, but it turns out that you can shoot the opposing player and punch the ball into the net as long as you do it on a Tuesday in November.  Pep's a genius."  

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I don't think everyone got their fair share of ridiculous handball penalties earlier this season when that was a new refereeing directive before they got bored of that and moved onto the next way to wreck a game of football. 

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4 hours ago, Chindie said:

Mings is challenged by him returning from offside. He doesn't receive the ball (as you might expect from a back pass).

 

Mings absolutely fucked up, he should have just cleared it, but the guy was offside.

 

Technically he wasn't.  Stop stating your factually wrong opinion as fact.

 

The law (in the section on 2020-2021 changes and clarifications) states "A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball, is not considered to have gained an advantage."  So it was correct to award the goal.  You can't go against the laws of the game to disallow a goal just because it feels wrong. 

 

The problem for me is that the law is an ass.  It's ridiculous.  How can Rodri be considered to have not gained an advantage?  The original law before it was "clarified" for this season states "A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched by a team-mate is only penalised on becoming involved in active play by: ... challenging an opponent for the ball."  What on earth was wrong with that version of the law?  

 

@Plissken - I admit that I'm not hugely familiar with the specific incidents you're talking about, but from what you said and what I know of Ashley Barnes, is the problem with those Barnes challenges from an offside position that they are always fouls?  A foul is a foul whether it comes from an offside position or not.  If they're penalising him for offside when he's fairly challenging defenders who have already controlled the ball (so not if he's coming back from an offide position to contest a header for example) then that is wrong and I can see why you're fed up.

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I'm sort of half-joking about Barnes.  He gets a lot of calls against based on his reputation and that reputation is deserved.  But if he plays tonight, you will probably see a situation where he gets pinged for a challenge on a defender from an offside position.

 

The problem is that yet again we're into a situation where it is entirely subjective.  And fans of the non Big Clubs know exactly where that is going to go because, to be frank, we just saw it.  There was the situation where Pope conceded the penalty against Leeds despite touching the ball - OK, that happens a lot - and then a week later the exact same situation saw VAR wave off a penalty against... I want to say... Chelsea?

 

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I wasn't aware of the specific law prior to this incident and I've just watched it numerous times and, firstly, it doesn't even seem so much as Rodri challenges Mings, as much as Mings turns into him as he's jogging back - Rodri doesn't move any faster towards the ball and almost half-heartedly sticks out a foot. They also still had a bit to do before scoring, so it's not as if he had a free run at the keeper either and there were 4 or 5 men behind the ball by the time the shot went in.

 

I realise of course that those are not the point of contention though and I'd probably be annoyed if it happened to my team, but I'm not entirely sure why other than, as @feltmonkey says, it 'feels' wrong.

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And now we have the situation from an offside position where a player can challenge for the ball in the opposition penalty area but can't take a six yard pass when inside his own half.

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A rule designed to stop goal-hanging now allows goal-hanging. 

 

It is ridiculous, because a defender can't just let the ball run, as teams will soon realise you set one player offside and get another to run from deep. If the defender plays it, the offside player can take the ball. If they leave it, the runner can get on it. 

 

I wouldn't blame any team for trying to exploit it now* but the offside rules really need a proper rethink and be rewritten clearly. Same with a lot of the rules within the game. 

 

*surprised many didn't after the Loveren / Kane incident. 

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Problem is if you hoof it clear it just means you immediately concede possession which is why clubs are now playing out from the back. 
 

I can definitely see this rule being tweaked. One of the main unintended consequences of VAR has been to shine a spotlight on just how often the law is an ass. 

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2 hours ago, Plissken said:

And now we have the situation from an offside position where a player can challenge for the ball in the opposition penalty area but can't take a six yard pass when inside his own half.

 

Isn't it impossible to be offside in your own half?

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19 minutes ago, Dudley said:

 

Isn't it impossible to be offside in your own half?

 

Not if you move from an offside position in the other half into your own half to collect the ball.

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3 hours ago, bradigor said:

A rule designed to stop goal-hanging now allows goal-hanging. 

 

It is ridiculous, because a defender can't just let the ball run, as teams will soon realise you set one player offside and get another to run from deep. If the defender plays it, the offside player can take the ball. If they leave it, the runner can get on it. 

 

I wouldn't blame any team for trying to exploit it now* but the offside rules really need a proper rethink and be rewritten clearly. Same with a lot of the rules within the game. 

 

*surprised many didn't after the Loveren / Kane incident. 

It's too hard a situation to train for surely? I thought we'd see a large amount of teams trying to win penalties just by flicking the ball up to try and get handball decisions - but even with the early season low bar for handball nobody seemed to attempt it (to my knowledge).

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1 minute ago, Stoppy2000 said:

In which case you are offside in the opposition half surely?

You're coming back from an offside position without anybody touching the ball.

 

1 minute ago, Stoppy2000 said:

It's too hard a situation to train for surely? I thought we'd see a large amount of teams trying to win penalties just by flicking the ball up to try and get handball decisions - but even with the early season low bar for handball nobody seemed to attempt it (to my knowledge).

The other thing is that it's a huge waste of energy for both the player in the offside position constantly chasing around behind the defensive line and any runners you have trying to follow up. Plus, as I said earlier in the City incident, they still had a lot to do and Villa still got 4 or 5 players back behind the ball - I can't imagine you'd get too many good opportunities out of it in the course of a game.

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