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Football Thread 2020/2021


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Going back to the Rooney chat, I think part of the issue is that he should've scored a lot more goals - he only broke 20 leagues goals in a season twice. I know a lot of that is down to how Ferguson used him, but I think there was always noise about him always dropping too deep to get the ball and as a result just not being in goalscoring positions. He was a brilliant player for many years and anybody that says otherwise likely has more personal reasons for doing so.

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1 hour ago, Gabe said:

Going back to the Rooney chat, I think part of the issue is that he should've scored a lot more goals - he only broke 20 leagues goals in a season twice. I know a lot of that is down to how Ferguson used him, but I think there was always noise about him always dropping too deep to get the ball and as a result just not being in goalscoring positions. He was a brilliant player for many years and anybody that says otherwise likely has more personal reasons for doing so.

 

He was, but you can't really consider that in isolation that from:

 

a) The ridiculous hype that surrounded him from the moment that he scored that goal against Arsenal, that he never stood any chance of living up to anyway but that he increasingly diverged from as he became a more all-rounded but less thrilling player.

 

b) The gradual and inarguable decline that lasted almost as long as he was brilliant, bearing in mind that he's still only 35 as he announces his retirement and has been entirely finished at the top level for, what, 5 years now?

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That’s more in keeping with how long players careers at the top level are. Messi and Ronaldo are freaks with their longevity but Rooney’s career at his peak is comparable to players like Fowler, Owen, Torres who are amazing for four to five years then fade away and injuries take their toll.

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Was Rooney world class for a period? Or does his longevity playing in a top Man U side make him so? The guy won 5 titles and everything else. He was always on the team sheet. I'm unsure where he places between great player and world class but he was also top scorer for England and Man U. He hasn't done bad has he. 

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8 minutes ago, Baring said:

Was Rooney world class for a period? Or does his longevity playing in a top Man U side make him so? The guy won 5 titles and everything else. He was always on the team sheet. I'm unsure where he places between great player and world class but he was also top scorer for England and Man U. He hasn't done bad has he. 

3 World Cups - 1 goal. His England record is padded with goals against lower class opposition. He was top class in his day but he was first choice way past his best. 

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10 hours ago, Loik V credern said:

 

Would you rather they win it or Liverpool?

 

 

 

I dunno. Liverpool fans weren't at all unbearable after their 12 month wait to win a major honour last season were they?

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1 hour ago, Stoppy2000 said:

3 World Cups - 1 goal. His England record is padded with goals against lower class opposition. He was top class in his day but he was first choice way past his best. 

I hear people talking about this but scoring against lower opposition is part of the game. Surely he gets kudos for being available 120 times for England. 

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Rooney arrived and was just a feral wild man raised by viscous animals they'd discovered in a Cheshire thicket and chucked on a football field. He'd be smashing into people and going on mad dribbles and scoring from all over the place. I don't ever remember a player arriving and looking so ridiculously exciting as he did. You can't keep that up forever though, and players that try never amount to much in the end. I think Ferguson just channeled that energy into being a player with a pretty unrivalled will to win. I remember that game against Hull (think it was 4-3?) and there was a drop ball deep into injury time and he's got his shaved head and piled in like a victorian sideshow attraction. There was no way he was losing that ball. Some players are just gifted with an intangible like that.

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7 minutes ago, Plissken said:

Rooney was injured for a couple of World Cups, IIRC and rushed back for at least one.

 

He also smoke(d)(s) like a chimney.

He should never have been taken if injured. It's obviously not his fault. His record in tournaments for England is still poor. I still think his Euro 2004 performance was by far his England peak which considering how long he carried on for is crazy. I think you could quite easily have watched the last ten years of his England career and been baffled why he was getting picked. 

He was always good for United in the same time frame though so maybe that says more about the England management of the time. 

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Also it says a lot about the England national team. For years when I was growing up we’ve had one or two star players who had a nation’s hopes pinned upon them despite the fact that they were surrounded by mediocrity. It’s really only now that the changes made following the performance at the 2010 World Cup (EPPP/St George’s Park) are starting to produce strength in depth and Rooney has missed out on that.  

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4 hours ago, Stoppy2000 said:

He should never have been taken if injured. It's obviously not his fault. His record in tournaments for England is still poor. I still think his Euro 2004 performance was by far his England peak which considering how long he carried on for is crazy. I think you could quite easily have watched the last ten years of his England career and been baffled why he was getting picked. 

He was always good for United in the same time frame though so maybe that says more about the England management of the time. 

10 years :lol: not a fan of Rooney then. Wasnt he winning leagues and got to a few CL finals in that time. 

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13 minutes ago, Baring said:

10 years :lol: not a fan of Rooney then. Wasnt he winning leagues and got to a few CL finals in that time. 

I said that about his England career. He was still good at united for most of his tenure. 

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10 minutes ago, Stoppy2000 said:

I said that about his England career. He was still good at united for most of his tenure. 

Yes but he can only be put in the squad based on how he's doing for his club. 

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9 minutes ago, Baring said:

Yes but he can only be put in the squad based on how he's doing for his club. 

And might well have deserved the call up. I just think he usually failed to deliver for England. 

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Through that ten years of abject failure for England, he was scoring goals at a rate of roughly a goal every two games, as well as making a lot of assists and playing as both the team's main creative fulcrum and the primary finisher.  If a few more players failed at his level of success we'd have won several tournaments.

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7 hours ago, Art Vandelay said:

Rooney arrived and was just a feral wild man raised by viscous animals they'd discovered in a Cheshire thicket and chucked on a football field. He'd be smashing into people and going on mad dribbles and scoring from all over the place. I don't ever remember a player arriving and looking so ridiculously exciting as he did. You can't keep that up forever though, and players that try never amount to much in the end. I think Ferguson just channeled that energy into being a player with a pretty unrivalled will to win. I remember that game against Hull (think it was 4-3?) and there was a drop ball deep into injury time and he's got his shaved head and piled in like a victorian sideshow attraction. There was no way he was losing that ball. Some players are just gifted with an intangible like that.


I will never forget his hat-trick on his debut for United, in the Champions League.

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3 hours ago, layten said:

Kane should comfortably beat Rooney's England record, with the added bonus of being able to score goals at World Cups.

Doesn’t have to play with gerrard and lampard at the same time though.

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Think you have to look at miles on the clock and not just age with Rooney. Not as many players start as young as he did. 

 

I think he's a bit like Beckham : overrated when he was in his prime, underrated thereafter. Neither won as many medals as they did without being very good players and a lot of the complaints are they aren't the player in people's heads. 

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