Football Thread 2020/2021

[skadupuk]

Manwhile,over on the Palace forums...

 

 

[Dudley]

10 hours ago, Adrock said:

It looks to me, since the Christmas/New Year schedule that VAR isn't getting involved as much in those kind of decisions, if it isn't a clear and obvious error they aren't scrutinising it. Which is exactly how the rule should be implemented.

 

I haven't seen the incident.

 

There was that fun one last week where it was overturned but I was watching on a US channel and their "ref" literally said it shouldn't be overturned because it looked like a penalty from the angle the ref saw it.

 

Even though it was a pure dive, it wasn't a clear and obvious error because it didn't look like it from where the ref was.

[feltmonkey]

10 hours ago, dizogg said:

Man Utd are “joint top”, just like they were at the end of 11/12!

 

I missed this last night. Yeah, what the hell is all this "joint top" bollocks about? I don't remember anyone claiming to be joint top before this season. I think Spurs started it, so it's probably something to do with Jose.

 

We're second on goal difference, not joint top. Fuck, I'd take that, it's fantastic! No need to start claiming things that aren't true.

[Plissken]

1 hour ago, Gotters said:

 

there will always be teams that just don't get them as have the wrong sort of players (i.e. not fancy dribblers who go down easy) and just don't spend much time in the opponents box - you can't get a pen if you never attack even with VAR and silly handball laws or if you are so inclined are subject to a co-ordinated ref plan to be biased against them.

 

I can think of three incidents where our players have been completely wiped out in a similar way to Ben Mee last week without the ref giving it.

[dr_manhattan^]

2 hours ago, bowser123 said:

 

It's amazing just how little attention was paid to that elbow on the night. I'd say leading with an elbow, in a challenge where you have zero chance of winning the ball as he was nowhere near it, smashing the opposition in the head is at the very least a foul and penalty.

https://streamable.com/qzn50t

 

Personally I think it's a red as it's a deliberate attempt to 'leave one on him', the fact he doesn't look around after the incident is suspect. He has form for stamping on people heads, too.

Thanks for posting that, it does look bad, he’s leading with his arm, could have easily been a red. 

[spork]

42 minutes ago, dr_manhattan^ said:

Thanks for posting that, it does look bad, he’s leading with his arm, could have easily been a red. 

 

So what you're saying is that we should have had a penalty? 

[dr_manhattan^]

19 minutes ago, spork said:

 

So what you're saying is that we should have had a penalty? 

That one looks much more of a penalty than the one you were awarded which still looks like a terrible decision to me. 
 

Mings can count himself lucky there. 

[Adrock]

Another Leeds match to watch, they're excellent fun and hopefully they stick it to Mourinho's boring style.

[Dudley]

Got to love those situations where the poor bastard on the crowd noise panic stabs the goal button.

 

Wrongly.

[Adrock]

That's exactly why I watch without it.

[dr_manhattan^]

Celtic on top in the Derby. Griffiths just had a great shot which brought an amazing save. 

[Gotters]

How is that level of 'foul' on Bergwijn in that area of the pitch worthy of a free shot on goal from 12y

 

I'm not going to call it anything emotive like a dive, it wasn't, but how is that worthy of giving a goal away for what happened ?

[Adrock]

It would be a foul anywhere else on the pitch, it was a penalty and it definitely being looked for too.

[ckny]

Two pages of discussion about a United penalty shout. I guess we’re back 

[JamesTW]

Shows how out of touch I am with Scottish football when I’ve got Rangers Celtic match on and genuinely wondering why Kenny Miller isn’t playing...

[Gotters]

Just now, Adrock said:

It would be a foul anywhere else on the pitch, it was a penalty and it definitely being looked for too.

 

yeah fine, lets suppose it is a foul, but anywhere else then the players go back 10y and play restarts - they don't get to move the ball to the middle of the goal and have a free shot.

 

my point now isn't whether its a FK or not, but whether the punishment is way disproportionate to the crime.

 

I went off to look at when/why pens were introduced and somebody has done a naughty edit on the wiki page

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penalty_kick_(association_football)

[dr_manhattan^]

1 minute ago, Gotters said:

 

yeah fine, lets suppose it is a foul, but anywhere else then the players go back 10y and play restarts - they don't get to move the ball to the middle of the goal and have a free shot.

 

my point now isn't whether its a FK or not, but whether the punishment is way disproportionate to the crime.

 

I went off to look at when/why pens were introduced and somebody has done a naughty edit on the wiki page

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penalty_kick_(association_football)

 

Ah I did that ages ago, thought it would have been changed by now

[Adrock]

Penalties are definitely a blunt tool for every infraction in the penalty area but I'm not sure what else you'd replace it with.

[Gotters]

when something in an online game is obviously unbalanced and too powerful then everybody spams the card or move in an aim to win and it gets dull and makes the game less fun.

 

this is where I feel we are with pens in players spamming trying to win them as its such an unbalanced move in their favour.

[Loik V credern]

On 24/10/2020 at 15:27, Loik V credern said:

What's the betting Calvert Lewin gets more goals than Messi this season. Whether league goals or all competitions even with less games. 

 

New Year check....

Calvert Lewin: 11 in 16 league games, 14 in 19 all comps

Messi: 7 in 14 league games, 10 in 18 all comps

 

Still on course! 

[Loik V credern]

5 minutes ago, Adrock said:

Penalties are definitely a blunt tool for every infraction in the penalty area but I'm not sure what else you'd replace it with.

 

Indirect free kicks. 

[Adrock]

So then what do you do to prevent the denying of clear scoring chances? What is a clear scoring chance? 

 

You'll just end up with even more tactical fouling.

[Stoppy2000]

Just now, Adrock said:

So then what do you do to prevent the denying of clear scoring chances? What is a clear scoring chance? 

I'm sure we could trust our top referees to make a 100% accurate call on this subjective decision every time. 

[Gotters]

7 minutes ago, Adrock said:

So then what do you do to prevent the denying of clear scoring chances? What is a clear scoring chance? 

 

You'll just end up with even more tactical fouling.

 

tactical fouling which will result in the appropriate level of punishment unless its denying the opponent something more meaningful on the pitch.

 

I get it's never going to be totally clear cut but this just feels nuts at present - people are getting goals for running away from the goal and taking the slightest contact on the edge of the box - how are people defending and happy with this ?

 

Denying a clear goal scoring chance already exists as a concept in red card decisions so its nothing new, make pens for that and handballs stopping a goal and you'd see far fewer given and far fewer stupid endless poring over replays. 

 

I'm deliberately widening this out to the whole concept of a what a pen should be and not focussing on club specifics to avoid the usual 'but what about when Pires in 2006 blah blah blah'

[Stoppy2000]

1 minute ago, Gotters said:

 

tactical fouling which will result in the appropriate level of punishment unless its denying the opponent something more meaningful on the pitch.

 

I get it's never going to be totally clear cut but this just feels nuts at present - people are getting goals for running away from the goal and taking the slightest contact on the edge of the box - how are people defending and happy with this ?

 

Denying a clear goal scoring chance already exists as a concept in red card decisions so its nothing new, make pens for that and handballs stopping a goal and you'd see far fewer given and far fewer stupid endless poring over replays. 

A foul in the penalty area results in a penalty. I think that's pretty much been the rule for a good long while. The definition of what it is a foul is the real issue. The spurs one today was a foul - slightly dicey because it was right on the edge of the area. But I guess it's just another thing to add to the long list of things that have been awarded to spurs by the footballing authorities. 

[Gotters]

1 minute ago, Stoppy2000 said:

A foul in the penalty area results in a penalty. I think that's pretty much been the rule for a good long while. The definition of what it is a foul is the real issue. The spurs one today was a foul - slightly dicey because it was right on the edge of the area. But I guess it's just another thing to add to the long list of things that have been awarded to spurs by the footballing authorities. 

 

You're doing that thing again, people want to change the conversation to be an agenda against them or their club, boo hoo everybody hates us. 

 

I agree it was a foul, I agree under the laws that is a pen, I'll even agree it was in the box for the sake of moving things on.

 

My question is should that be how the game is run, was the direction of run, location of foul, severity of foul worthy of a free shot that goes in 78% of the time ? We're getting pens in every other game at present and never have before, surely something is wrong here in the wider game ?

[Dudley]

Sometimes you have a lucky day, that's two goals effectively decided by being a couple of cm the right side of a line.

 

Course you have to create those chances.

[Stoppy2000]

12 minutes ago, Gotters said:

 

You're doing that thing again, people want to change the conversation to be an agenda against them or their club, boo hoo everybody hates us. 

 

I agree it was a foul, I agree under the laws that is a pen, I'll even agree it was in the box for the sake of moving things on.

 

My question is should that be how the game is run, was the direction of run, location of foul, severity of foul worthy of a free shot that goes in 78% of the time ? We're getting pens in every other game at present and never have before, surely something is wrong here in the wider game ?

It's literally been the rule for years. You seem to want to introduce an element of the referees having to decide if it was a goal scoring chance or not? 

[dr_manhattan^]

2 minutes ago, Stoppy2000 said:

It's literally been the rule for years. You seem to want to introduce an element of the referees having to decide if it was a goal scoring chance or not? 

I believe we are seeing more penalties now and they do seem to be deciding more games which does lead to a more boring sport, it's a fine discussion to have.

[Gotters]

13 minutes ago, Stoppy2000 said:

It's literally been the rule for years. You seem to want to introduce an element of the referees having to decide if it was a goal scoring chance or not? 

 

then why are we seeing double the number of penalties being given and some teams seemingly getting one every week - we aren't exactly in the era of the clogger hardman defender are we ?

 

I do want to see far less pens given and games decided more on who is better at scoring goals, not who is better at manufacturing/winning pens. Introducing the ref making a call on severity and the foul denying a goal scoring chance doesn't make things worse than they are and is a call they already have to infrequently make. Any other foul in the box remains a foul with a wall etc - its not that big a leap.