Football Thread 2020/2021

[feltmonkey]

2 hours ago, dr_manhattan^ said:

the 12 men Ole put out today. 
 

 

Kind of a dickhead thing to say especially considering that you didn't watch the match.  Michael Oliver was absolutely hopeless today, and gave a succession of marginal calls to Villa. At one point Matty Cash slipped over leaving Luke Shaw clean through on goal, and this was called back for a phantom foul. Traore took a dive inside the box with zero contact and was given a free kick outside the box. Most foul calls are subjective, of course, so as an example of something completely objective, at the end of the first half, United won a corner with 15 seconds of the injury time left and Oliver blew up for half time before we could take it. In the second half with Villa pushing for an equaliser, he played an extra 45 seconds after the five minutes of injury time were up, giving Villa time to launch one final attack, which lead to a fantastic goal-saving block by Bailly.  Incidentally, I think Bailly was lucky not to be sent off, if you want balance. A heavy, out-of-control challenge in the second half that he got a booking for.

 

I dunno man, you spend most of your time in this thread spouting embarrassing conspiracy theories. 

[dr_manhattan^]

Just now, feltmonkey said:

 

Kind of a dickhead thing to say especially considering that you didn't watch the match.  Michael Oliver was absolutely hopeless today, and gave a succession of marginal calls to Villa. At one point Matty Cash slipped over leaving Luke Shaw clean through on goal, and this was called back for a phantom foul. Traore took a dive inside the box with zero contact and was given a free kick outside the box. Most foul calls are subjective, of course, so as an example of something completely subjective, at the end of the first half, United won a corner with 15 seconds of the injury time left and Oliver blew up for half time before we could take it. In the second half with Villa pushing for an equaliser, he played an extra 45 seconds after the five minutes of injury time were up, giving Villa time to launch one final attack, which lead to a fantastic goal-saving block by Bailly.

 

I dunno man, you spend most of your time in this thread spouting embarrassing conspiracy theories. 

That was just a joke I wondered who would pick up on it.

 

it’s not a conspiracy theory to point out that VAR has been implemented unsuccessfully. I do post about it a lot, it bothers me, I think the standard of officiating in the premier league is poor. 
 

Don’t be so touchy. 

[feltmonkey]

No, it's not a conspiracy to say that VAR is rubbish, but you're forever going on about everything being a conspiracy to help the big clubs, and are noticeably quiet when the exact same things happen to the detriment of a bigger club. That's what's silly.

 

Anyway, I'm trying to watch a pretty mediocre episode of Doctor Who.  I didn't intend to get caught up as part of some sort of MUDF tonight.  

[Chindie]

The standard of officiating is dreadful.

 

The implementation of VAR is appalling.

 

There's seemingly a lot of people for whom the combination of those 2 things is sapping the interest in the game. I understand it, it often feels like you're fighting against a tide and the whole thing is abitrary.

[dr_manhattan^]

All I said was it’s a soft call. I’m not alone in that. 
 

I don’t think there is a conspiracy, it did seem off for the first half of last season however, but I think the system of making these calls is badly flawed. 

[spork]

1 minute ago, dr_manhattan^ said:

All I said was it’s a soft call. 

 

That's not all you've said 

[feltmonkey]

Well, the penalty wasn't really a VAR thing, as it hinged on whether the ref saw contact between the defender and Pogba's left leg. Once it's given on the field it's not going to be overturned. If it hadn't been given on the field it wouldn't have been overturned into a penalty, either.

 

You should all be grateful that you get to see Bruno Fernandes' superb penalty taking techniques so often. He has so many varieties. No hop today, just an old-school wallop into the corner.

[dr_manhattan^]

1 minute ago, spork said:

 

That's not all you've said 

I initially said dive and corrected myself. That was just short hand for a soft call. 
 

The extrapolation was that the officiating is poor in the league but whatever. 
 

I was following the game for the last 15 minutes and wanting United to win, wasn’t looking forward to the stick from Villa fans just after we lost there had they drawn  

[feltmonkey]

In the old days the negs would have been flying tonight. 

 

@spork and I would have fielded so many of them. It must be infuriating for you all.

[dr_manhattan^]

Just now, feltmonkey said:

Well, the penalty wasn't really a VAR thing, as it hinged on whether the ref saw contact between the defender and Pogba's left leg. Once it's given on the field it's not going to be overturned. If it hadn't been given on the field it wouldn't have been overturned into a penalty, either.

 

You should all be grateful that you get to see Bruno Fernandes' superb penalty taking techniques so often. He has so many varieties. No hop today, just an old-school wallop into the corner.

Completely agree. As I said earlier, it’s about inconsistency which is frustrating when that should be lessened now. 
 

It’s worse when you consider what it costs us, by that I’m talking about the experience of scoring a goal when you attend a match. It absolutely saps the joy from attending a match and I don’t think what we get is worth that price. 
 

I’m sure most of us these days are more used to watching on TV more than being in the stands, but even now, I just don’t celebrate goals any more, it s taken too much away with offering too little. 

[feltmonkey]

Definitely. It's such a shame. I'd scrap VAR tomorrow if it was down to me. I guess you'd be trying to put the genie back in the bottle now though, or the toothpaste back in the tube.

[dr_manhattan^]

1 minute ago, feltmonkey said:

Definitely. It's such a shame. I'd scrap VAR tomorrow if it was down to me. I guess you'd be trying to put the genie back in the bottle now though, or the toothpaste back in the tube.

Yep, it won’t happen now, best we can hope for is for the issues to be ironed out. 
 

I’m not sure I’ll take my season ticket when things back to normal however, it’s taken a lot away for me, KDB said something about all the changes that have happened over the last few years recently it’s weird how much is being tinkered with. 

[spork]

14 minutes ago, dr_manhattan^ said:

As I said earlier, it’s about inconsistency

 

 

I'm mostly disappointed that you haven't commented on how Villa had an extra 24 hours rest after their last match.

[dr_manhattan^]

Just now, spork said:

 

I'm mostly disappointed that you haven't commented on how Villa had an extra 24 hours rest after their last match.

I don’t know what the gaps were for both teams, but that was an advantage for United, OGS said so himself. 

[Stevie]

Dan James got a yellow card against Leeds after Cooper pushed him with both arms, it should have been a pen.

 

When we play City they use tactical fouls and get away with it.

 

Liverpool targeting Rashford and getting away with it.

 

 

The list goes on and on......

 

 

[dr_manhattan^]

Yeah that Dan James one was ridiculous, we had a couple of similar ones against Arsenal and Spurs. 
 

The Burnley goal against Leeds was probably the worst example of officiating this season. 

[Stevie]

Fred was also given a yellow after being fouled by Otamendi. There are so many shit refs in the premier league and VAR is not used properly.
 

Problem is people have this gut reaction of unfair referees whenever United are playing because they remember United being so dominant and winning everything under sir Alex. If Liverpool were as successful and as great as United then the same conspiracy theory would apply to them as well but since it took them 30 years to win the league then nobody cares. 

[Scruff]

Man Utd are well known for gaining pens that other teams wouldn't get, but I have zero sympathy for Villa as they're a bunch of diving pricks themselves and it's hilarious seeing Dean Smith gripe about soft pens. 

[Chewylegs]

8 hours ago, feltmonkey said:

 

Kind of a dickhead thing to say especially considering that you didn't watch the match.  Michael Oliver was absolutely hopeless today, and gave a succession of marginal calls to Villa.

Did he give a marginal call in the penalty area to Villa?

[Stevie]

3 minutes ago, Scruff said:

Man Utd are well known for gaining pens that other teams wouldn't get, but I have zero sympathy for Villa as they're a bunch of diving pricks themselves and it's hilarious seeing Dean Smith gripe about soft pens. 

 

Pens are often controversial no argument there, but when Rashford or Martial makes a run and 9 Wolves players are parked inside the box to stop them, then chances are there's going to be a pen. I'm more worried about players like Mings who blatantly assaults people and keeps getting away with it. 

[Scruff]

1 minute ago, Stevie said:

 

Pens are often controversial no argument there, but when Rashford or Martial makes a run and 9 Wolves players are parked inside the box to stop them, then chances are there's going to be a pen. I'm more worried about players like Mings who blatantly assaults people and keeps getting away with it. 

 

Of course they'd get a penalty in those situations because even if every Wolves stood still and didn't move their legs, either of those players would go down. It doesn't help that commentators are loath to ever actually call cheating cheating and instead use colloquialisms like 'won' or that the player was 'cute' and so it persists.
 

[bowser123]

8 minutes ago, Stevie said:

 

Pens are often controversial no argument there, but when Rashford or Martial makes a run and 9 Wolves players are parked inside the box to stop them, then chances are there's going to be a pen. I'm more worried about players like Mings who blatantly assaults people and keeps getting away with it. 

 

It's amazing just how little attention was paid to that elbow on the night. I'd say leading with an elbow, in a challenge where you have zero chance of winning the ball as he was nowhere near it, smashing the opposition in the head is at the very least a foul and penalty.

https://streamable.com/qzn50t

 

Personally I think it's a red as it's a deliberate attempt to 'leave one on him', the fact he doesn't look around after the incident is suspect. He has form for stamping on people heads, too.

[Stevie]

4 minutes ago, Scruff said:

 

Of course they'd get a penalty in those situations because even if every Wolves stood still and didn't move their legs, either of those players would go down. It doesn't help that commentators are loath to ever actually call cheating cheating and instead use colloquialisms like 'won' or that the player was 'cute' and so it persists.
 

 

Yes, that makes it more infuriating when you are on the losing side. I'm sure non United fans are annoyed by Gary Neville, but most of the other pundits have a ridiculous anti-United agenda. Frank Lampard loses games and "its a process" but when Ole loses he has to be sacked. Chelsea wins two games in a row and its Lampard the genius, United go on a good run and its because of the players. 

 

Commentator bias doesn't effect the referee though, and I think the only solution is to use VAR more consistently. If United is awarded a pen and the ref doesn't check with VAR then all of football loses. Either VAR needs to be used more or it shouldn't be used at all. 

[Gotters]

my problem with penalties is just the sheer amount of them we're seeing in total, taking aside any club bias or allegiances.

 

I think this season we're running at nearly 1 every 2 games, so in a weekend we'll see 5 of them, they get converted at 78% historically I believe so 4 goals a weekend are coming from this roughly.

 

it's too many, the bar for what penalties are being given for is too low, the game has shifted in intention to players actively looking for situations to generate contact and attempt to 'draw the foul' or 'manufacture the contact' as its easier than trying to actually score or create a chance. add to that the ludicrous rules about what a handball is now and you can see why the numbers given are increasingly so significantly.

 

it feels like my tipping point into full on old man football fan as I look at what is being given as a blatant foul, even after a second pair of eyes VAR review and I just shake my head repeatedly thinking its all a bit pish.

[Stevie]

3 minutes ago, bowser123 said:

 

It's amazing just how little attention was paid to that elbow on the night. I'd say leading with an elbow, in a challenge where you have zero chance of winning the ball as he was nowhere near it, smashing the opposition in the head is at the very least a foul and penalty.

https://streamable.com/qzn50t

 

Personally I think it's a red as it's a deliberate attempt to 'leave one on him', the fact he doesn't look around after the incident is suspect. He has form for stamping on people heads, too.

 

Yes, and its a player that's known for it

 

 

 

[Scruff]

It's nothing to do with being on the losing side. There is no prejudice in what I'm saying. I dislike Man Utd as much as Liverpool and all the other teams in the league.

 

I actually find Neville, despite showing a clear Man Utd bias (you couldn't expect anything less, I don't get offended when Sir Trevor Brooking clearly shows a West Ham bias) one of the better ones. Carragher is far worse than Neville. 

 

I understand commentator reaction to cheating doesn't affect the game. What it does is normalise cheating so it is almost accepted, which is wrong. It's why teams like Villa have, despite not really being known for it previously, become quite shocking with the theatrics and gamesmanship now; there isn't any punishment for doing it.

 

We all know why Lampard gets a pass from the football commentariat. It doesn't need spelling out.

[Stevie]

3 minutes ago, Gotters said:

it's too many, the bar for what penalties are being given for is too low, the game has shifted in intention to players actively looking for situations to generate contact and attempt to 'draw the foul' or 'manufacture the contact' as its easier than trying to actually score or create a chance. add to that the ludicrous rules about what a handball is now and you can see why the numbers given are increasingly so significantly.

 

 

VAR should always be used when it comes to fouls, watch it from multiple angles and make the correct call. And if players are taking a clear dive then they should be sanctioned. VAR has great potential. 

[Scruff]

You say there are too many penalties @Gotters (I agree with you) tell that to West Ham, Burnley and I think one other team, who have yet to receive one this season.

 

I read a stat the other week that was crazy. I think in the last 3 season, Jamie Vardy - not Leicester, just Jamie Vardy - has received more penalties than West Ham.

[Gotters]

2 minutes ago, Scruff said:

You say there are too many penalties @Gotters (I agree with you) tell that to West Ham, Burnley and I think one other team, who have yet to receive one this season.

 

I read a stat the other week that was crazy. I think in the last 3 season, Jamie Vardy - not Leicester, just Jamie Vardy - has received more penalties than West Ham.

 

there will always be teams that just don't get them as have the wrong sort of players (i.e. not fancy dribblers who go down easy) and just don't spend much time in the opponents box - you can't get a pen if you never attack even with VAR and silly handball laws or if you are so inclined are subject to a co-ordinated ref plan to be biased against them.

 

[Scruff]

2 minutes ago, Gotters said:

 

there will always be teams that just don't get them as have the wrong sort of players (i.e. not fancy dribblers who go down easy) and just don't spend much time in the opponents box - you can't get a pen if you never attack even with VAR and silly handball laws or if you are so inclined are subject to a co-ordinated ref plan to be biased against them.

 

 

Well, our second game of the season against your lot when there was a clear handball in your area. VAR didn't help then.