Daytona USA Vs Ridge Racer Console Launch

[Ketchup]

Let's get this out the way first. Ridge Racer is the far better conversion and launch title. Ridge Racer was a system seller for the PlayStation and whilst Daytona was too for the Saturn when put side by side it was a poorer game. But actually i think thats a little unfair.

 

 

Looking at the pictures above Daytona is a far messier game visually, thanks to the lower resolution and just generally noisier textures. The pop in is sorta horrific in Daytona, it's not that bad in reality and Ridge Racer has its fair share of pop in too but it still adds to a game that looks worse. Then there is the frame rate, 20fps for Daytona and 30fps for Ridge Racer.

 

BUT what you don't see in screenshots and videos is the gameplay. Daytona USA played liked the arcade game. That's not to say Ridge Racer didn't but Daytona got the feel down perfectly and played a great game. So much so that the semi sequel/fixed follow up ruined that arcade gameplay. I think what most people forget is what Daytona was doing, it had 40 cars on the track, all AI controlled rather than following a preset path that will NEVER change from, so much so that the cars in Ridge Racer will force you off the track if you are in the way of the spline they are following. Games now don't have 40 cars on screen at once. That's a huge ask for a 32 bit launch game and in my eyes makes Daytona on the saturn pretty impressive.

 

I think looking back far too many people look down on Daytona on the saturn, it has a lot of short comings for sure, especially compared to the competition, but actually it was pretty impressive back in the day and it needs a little more credit.

[nakamura]

The AI in Ridge do not force you off anything. They just bang into the back of you. Also they perform overtakes too. Both have fairly weak AI. But Daytona plays far better that it's given credit for. I really like it despite the flaws. 

 

But Ridge will always be king. It's just so good to play, even today. I think both games compliment each other so well though. 

[Hello Goaty ♥]

I can get this as straight as you want.

We used to have a games night involving a LOT of people  ( ie- more than 10 )

 

After Ridge Racer wowing everyone,   I brought my JPN Saturn and Daytona round.   

 

MOST OF THE ROOM LAUGHED AT IT

 

so there you go!

 

One can only imagine Segas fortunes if it was as good as the Xbox 360 release

 

 

[dumpster]

Daytona was a considerably more challenging game to convert.  40 cars on the track at once , three courses etc.  It's surprising that it worked at all on the Saturn launch day, especially as the hardware kept changing throughout development.   The main achievement was that the gameplay was so similar to the arcade, which is something they messed up when they released the Championship edition.  The new game fixed many problems but lost the gameplay and I still consider the launch title to be the better game.

 

But Ridge Racer was the better game all along. In the arcade I prefer Daytona (and these days the 360 and PS3 versions of Daytona are outstanding) but Ridge was always the better game at home, and the PS1 game is the perfect demonstration that you only need 1 car, one track, perfect handling, you've got a game you can play for years.  

 

[dvdx2]

I bought a PAL saturn and Daytona around launch and loved it, despite it being technically abit rubbish. The music and crisp voice samples where a big upgrade from the 16bit stuff and despite the crap framerate, it played fairly closely to the arcade. 

 

 I think it cost about £439 for them too in 1995 (and the kids moan about console prices now!)

[Kevvy Metal]

They both have really cool 2nd versions too. 

Daytona : CCE kinda strays away from the original a bit, but is still great. 

There's also the 60 fps version of RR that came bundled with type 4 in japan. 

[Nick R]

55 minutes ago, Ketchup said:

I think what most people forget is what Daytona was doing, it had 40 cars on the track, all AI controlled rather than following a preset path that will NEVER change from,

 

I never played the original Saturn version of Daytona. Did it have a time attack mode without any CPU cars, and if so, were the framerate and pop-in improved?

 

YouTube has plenty of videos of Saturn Daytona in arcade mode - but all the time attack videos I can find seem to be done on the Championship Circuit Edition.

[gizmo1990]

Ridge was really an example of the perfect game at the perfect time. It was cutting edge but with a graphic style eminently suitable to conversion to the new machines.

Daytona was just a hill too far unfortunately. 

[PikaStu]

If the launch Daytona looked like the enhanced one (CCE?) but retained the original handling then it would perhaps have been a different story, but the marketing hype behind PlayStation and Ridge Racer was too much. 
 

Then of course Sega Rally came out and made every console racer obsolete 

[merrychan]

I remember I was about 15 at the time and I was in a games shop off the market square in Northampton, it used to get imported stuff in and had a games room upstairs where you could pay for time on their new jp psx and saturn. Given the hype around the machines it wasa super exciting time

 

I was a massive fan of Daytona in the arcade, I loved Ridge Racer too but when I saw Daytona running on the Saturn I didn't even want to play it, my geek heart just sank and I played on RR instead.

[Ketchup]

I do remember Argos had on their demo pod for the saturn a sign detailing how pal games would be 17.5% slower and that they would also have borders. First time i'd ever been made aware of that.

[nakamura]

I'd like to know how the AI works in Daytona. It seems to me they move in clusters. It's certainly limited and doesn't seem like you really have 40 individual cars. But it was still cool. 

 

Does the PAL game run sub 20fps?

[Rex Grossman]

4 hours ago, dumpster said:

Daytona was a considerably more challenging game to convert.  40 cars on the track at once , three courses etc. 

 

And Sega somehow decided to create a piece of hardware that wasn't purpose-built to run games like this.

[dumpster]

Also the Saturn came with a scart lead in the box which confused a lot of people, who reached the point of sale and realised they didn't know if their TV had a scart socket or not.  

[Down by Law]

2 hours ago, nakamura said:

I'd like to know how the AI works in Daytona. It seems to me they move in clusters. It's certainly limited and doesn't seem like you really have 40 individual cars. But it was still cool. 

 

Does the PAL game run sub 20fps?

 

The PAL Version's a real mess, it's optimised but has insane black borders, so if you try to run it at 60hz it gets really nuts.

 

From Randomised Gaming :

 

Quote

Daytona USA - Major PAL optimisation
Game is PAL optimised in a way that makes it inferior to the NTSC release, the menus are unoptimised as is the aspect ratio, resulting in huge PAL borders at 50Hz during 3D gameplay. However the game speed is sped up to try and match the 60Hz NTSC version. As a result the game is jerky and controls poorly even at 50Hz this issue is made far worse at 60Hz with the controls becoming very sensitive. Avoid this release and go for the NTSC version from North America or Japan. See our YouTube video where we break down many of the problems with the PAL version.

 

I've got to say though, as a teen, I loved the PAL version despite all the problems with it. Amazing the amount of crap a 14" portable would hide.

[mash]

Yes, Daytona was a mess technically. But it played better than Ridge Racer and surely that's what matters. The Saturn version  captured the feel of Daytona and Daytona USA was an infinitely superior game to RR. Once you'd played the 1 track and its three variations you were pretty much done. 

 

Original Saturn Daytona was far better than the crappy improved version Daytona CCE and it had better handling than the Dreamcast version too.

[bplus]

6 hours ago, Ketchup said:

I do remember Argos had on their demo pod for the saturn a sign detailing how pal games would be 17.5% slower and that they would also have borders. First time i'd ever been made aware of that.

When they purposely trying not to sell the system!?! No one would have noticed. Those that did would have known to buy an NTSC machine. Maybe this incident is what persuaded sega to out a 60hz mode into pal dreamcast games :)

[ucci]

13 hours ago, dumpster said:

Also the Saturn came with a scart lead in the box which confused a lot of people, who reached the point of sale and realised they didn't know if their TV had a scart socket or not.  

 

What a touch! Many friends couldn't care how to best connect a console to their TV, just as long as it could be done and was watchable. I was like some sort of deranged parrot around them "RGB! RGB! RGB!" so much that I greet one now with RGB, yeah? 

[wev]

19 hours ago, mash said:

Yes, Daytona was a mess technically. But it played better than Ridge Racer and surely that's what matters. The Saturn version  captured the feel of Daytona and Daytona USA was an infinitely superior game to RR. Once you'd played the 1 track and its three variations you were pretty much done. 

 

Original Saturn Daytona was far better than the crappy improved version Daytona CCE and it had better handling than the Dreamcast version too.

 

 

What doesn't?

[Oracle]

Loved Daytona, but it was a mess - still great to play. I've never tried the JPN variant, I do have the JPN fixed version of CCE though.

[pulsemyne]

5 hours ago, wev said:

 

 

What doesn't?

God alive the handling on it was fucking shocking.

[Droo]

Daytona time lag 2 player is still amazing g fun. 

[Jazz Glands]

It was designed for the wheel. If you rolled the analogue stick almost like a wheel it was far better, but still far from ideal. 

[Riven]

In the arcade's Daytona USA was hands down the better game and has aged far better than Ridge Racer. Better track design and just more cars on the track, that said Ridge Racer is a more realistic racing game in terms of track design compared to Daytona USA.

 

When it comes to the home ports Ridge Racer is without a doubt the better port on PS1 and it's easy when you compare the two to see, why so many gamers choose the PS1 over Saturn at the start. Is it the better game? I'm not sure, but it's the better home port by a clear mile.

 

PAL Daytona USA is a mess as is as is the rushed PAL Daytona USA CE. Which is just messing so much content and graphics from the Japanese and North America Netlink edition. As for PAL Ridge Racer, well having researched it recently I now know Namco did optimise elements of their PAL PS1 games.... so you've been warned. Needs more research, but I know for a fact the fight timer in Tekken 3 is broken in PAL.

[SeanR]

1 minute ago, Riven said:

that said Ridge Racer is a more realistic game.

 

 

[Riven]

4 minutes ago, SeanR said:

 

 

 

Guess I need to explain my point better so gave it a quick edit.

[PikaStu]

I tried JPN Saturn Daytona for the first time yesterday, it’s a whole different game compared to the twitchy PAL mess I played in ‘95. 
I lost a couple of hours playing it, the handling is spot on with the Saturn pad and the graphics are quite charming despite the pop-in and low frame rate.

 

Now, which version of CCE retains the handling model? Is it the original JPN release or a subsequent version?

[MikeJ]

5 hours ago, StoooTube said:

Now, which version of CCE retains the handling model? Is it the original JPN release or a subsequent version?

I have all the CCE versions and none of them are quite the same as the original release. The Japanese Circuit Edition is supposed to be the closest but I much

prefer the original NTSC Saturn version. 

[pastry]

I agree with much of the above. I've posted about this on a DF Retro YT vid.. so might as well paste that here:
 

Quote

Despite the flaws I think in absolute fairness Daytona on the Saturn was a hell of an achievement – it's ambition to match the arcade was obvious, with 40 cars in the 777 Speedway and multiple on screen at once, loyal reproduction of the visuals within the constraints of the system and the very early dev tools, and it all felt right to play, too. Yes, it had some awful pop up, and yes the frame rate took a huge hit – but I think it'd be unfair to characterise it as a complete failure.

 

I played CCE a lot and I think it's a perfectly fine racing game but it's not Daytona USA and lacks much of the charm/character.

 

@gizmo1990 nailed it:

On 06/08/2020 at 21:54, gizmo1990 said:

Ridge was really an example of the perfect game at the perfect time. It was cutting edge but with a graphic style eminently suitable to conversion to the new machines.

Daytona was just a hill too far unfortunately. 

 

Ridge Racer became one of the PS1 cultural icons just like Wipeout, it had all the ingredients and was just significantly more "cool" than Daytona, which had weird music, less interesting cars vs RR's super dorifto models, traditional track vs city courses... and no Galaxian – which was just such a neat touch!

I love both but RR is the game I still play often. Well, the 60fps version, naturally.

 

 

[dumpster]

Another question would be... Seeing as how the Xbox and PS3 got the perfect arcade conversion, does that render the Saturn versions obsolete anyway? Is there any point other than nostalgia to play a previous home conversion when a perfect one exists?