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“SPOILER THREAD” - The Last Of Us Part 2

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Finished last night. Yeah. Hmmm.  A weak 7/10 from me or a very strong 6/10. The gameplay just didn't develop enough to justify its length. Apart from a couple of different weapons Abby was identical to controlling Ellie which made changing characters meaningless in terms of gameplay. If Abby had vastly  different abilities (I don't mean superpowers before anyone dives in) it would have made her sections more interesting, but her sections played almost identically. I didn't get the point of that.

 

Some of the later weapons were sadly underused, the flamethrower and silenced SMG hardly got touched in my playthrough, I suppose they're banking on you going straight into NG+ but I will almost definitely never play this again. Likewise the environments, I can't help thinking a horde mode would be infinitely more fun in this world than the actual story and would exploit the environments more fully.

 

Tonally I found the game drab because of the characters, not exactly depressing, but just like a massive shrug. All of the characters are unlikeable or annoying and spending time with them grated on me. By the end (and the end felt like it went on for hours) I was thinking "oh just shut the fuck up and get on with it", I hoped/wanted them all of the surviving characters to die and couldn't give a shit about any of them surviving. Just a horrible cast.

 

The cult aspect was really underplayed and I would have loved to have seen more of that.

 

When I think of my favourite games - Halo CE, Resi 4, Dark Souls - I could play any of them now on a fresh playthrough on any console and enjoy every second. With LOU2 I could not stand to hear any of their voices or annoying dialogue ever again, beyond that the gameplay loop is just too restrictive to consider playing ever again. I was glad to finish it and get it over with.

 

The game itself is undeniably prehistoric. I did enjoy the combat for the first few levels of open combat sections, but it never really got going much beyond that, the entire game is pretty much crouching, rifling through drawers and repeating the same thing until the end. I got really tired of that repeated pattern every level, when Abby was introduced I really believed it would change the gameplay - maybe she is melee focussed/hand to hand combat expert and won't need to scavenge loot. Making her play the same as Ellie felt like letting the air out of a balloon for me. Overall too many annoying instances where the game pushes past the point of no return when you open a door and trigger a cutscene without warning, whether you'd finished exploring the previous section or not. As a game I don't feel like it progressed the medium whatsoever in terms of ideas, mechanics or concepts, it felt dated despite some really good combat situations.

 

Actually make that a strong 6/10 on reflection.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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@Uncle Nasty did you play about much with Abby's momentum skill? That provides a completely different dynamic to the combat that you do not have with Ellie and expands on the CQC point you touch on. Also, Abby being able to improve her abilities to grab and move with hostages is another aspect you don't have with Ellie.

 

I approached all situations very differently as Abby due to both of those things.

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24 minutes ago, MardiganX said:

@Uncle Nasty did you play about much with Abby's momentum skill? That provides a completely different dynamic to the combat that you do not have with Ellie and expands on the CQC point you touch on. Also, Abby being able to improve her abilities to grab and move with hostages is another aspect you don't have with Ellie.

 

I approached all situations very differently as Abby due to both of those things.

 

The way she lines up for a second shot? That? Yes I did and I also unlocked the extension to the timer for that move. I wanted to see that skillset massively extended - give Abby the ability to drown people, obvious given the amount of water in the game. Allow her to pop out of water and drag an enemy back under with her. Allow her to electrify water with the cables you have to use to power generators with. Imagine how much more fun that would be instead of powering bloody generators. On the level with all the skyscrapers, allow Abby to fling the enemies over the edges with a dedicated move. Give her a move so she can drop down and grab a ledge to hide when an enemy walks past. There is loads they could have done with that character.

 

Thinking about it, it was probably ND's ambition to make the game look cinematic that held it back as a videogame. All of that stuff I mentioned would be standard in other games, but in LOU2 all the extra animation and mocap would probably have taken another two years. Same reason as there's only two stealth kill animations, whereas in something like the superior Manhunt there were three animations for every single melee weapon. The cost of animating all those variations was just too high.

 

The entire game feels like it was held back because of its production values. That scene near the end where you get on the horse riding through the burning village actually plays itself if you put the controller down. I hate these sections where you're burning through your ammo during a cinematic, only to find out that you had no influence over it anyway, or that they've given you infinite ammo for that section.

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You really, really should have used the silent machine gun more, it rocks. 

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1 minute ago, Stanley said:

You really, really should have used the silent machine gun more, it rocks. 

 

I didn't really get the opportunity to, maybe I missed it earlier and got it late? I got it when Ellie was cut down from the tree and she shoved the guy into the clicker.

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3 minutes ago, Uncle Nasty said:

 

I didn't really get the opportunity to, maybe I missed it earlier and got it late? I got it when Ellie was cut down from the tree and she shoved the guy into the clicker.

Yeah, you don’t get it for long but I used it all the time. 
 

Raiding that rattler settlement :ph34r:

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55 minutes ago, Uncle Nasty said:

 

The way she lines up for a second shot? That? Yes I did and I also unlocked the extension to the timer for that move. I wanted to see that skillset massively extended - give Abby the ability to drown people, obvious given the amount of water in the game. Allow her to pop out of water and drag an enemy back under with her. Allow her to electrify water with the cables you have to use to power generators with. Imagine how much more fun that would be instead of powering bloody generators. On the level with all the skyscrapers, allow Abby to fling the enemies over the edges with a dedicated move. Give her a move so she can drop down and grab a ledge to hide when an enemy walks past. There is loads they could have done with that character.

 

Thinking about it, it was probably ND's ambition to make the game look cinematic that held it back as a videogame. All of that stuff I mentioned would be standard in other games, but in LOU2 all the extra animation and mocap would probably have taken another two years. Same reason as there's only two stealth kill animations, whereas in something like the superior Manhunt there were three animations for every single melee weapon. The cost of animating all those variations was just too high.

 

The entire game feels like it was held back because of its production values. That scene near the end where you get on the horse riding through the burning village actually plays itself if you put the controller down. I hate these sections where you're burning through your ammo during a cinematic, only to find out that you had no influence over it anyway, or that they've given you infinite ammo for that section.

 

I completely agree, having Abby or even Ellie capable of doing more stuff would be great.. provided it was balanced to the overall theme of the gameplay, which is survival. A lot of what you describe for Abby would risk losing the tension and the feeling of fighting to survive and instead make it a full on action game with Special Forces Abby cutting through any cunt she meets without ever really being worried about what would happen if you step out to early or miss a single shot from your crossbow.

 

So I take the point around depth and volume of animations, particularly in relation to context sensitivity (the ledge throwing for example) but what they have achieved is no doubt the limit of what they could do while maintaining that very cinematic feel that is absolutely vital to the entire experience.

 

And @Stanley I was the same with the silenced SMG. I would have liked for it to fire single shots a bit easier as no matter how gentle I was on the trigger it seemed to spit out at least 2 rounds every time :lol: a fantastic weapon. I am looking forward to using it on NG+ but concerned there isn't going to actually be any ammunition for it until Santabarbara?

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18 minutes ago, MardiganX said:

And @Stanley I was the same with the silenced SMG. I would have liked for it to fire single shots a bit easier as no matter how gentle I was on the trigger it seemed to spit out at least 2 rounds every time :lol: a fantastic weapon. I am looking forward to using it on NG+ but concerned there isn't going to actually be any ammunition for it until Santabarbara?

Not to worry, there is ammo available for all weapons in NG+.

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The day after finishing it - it is still with me. Ellie and Abby, I miss them already.

 

The think this game is much like Aliens to Alien. The first a smaller more contained film, and the second more ambitious and grandiose in every way.

 

I look forward to the inevitable TLOU part 3 a lot - but fear Part 2 is going to be very hard act to follow. Much in the same way: Alien , The Godfather 3, Superman 3, Return of the Jedi and Uncharted - could never quite get back to greatness of their second instalments..

 

I'm going to leave it a bit, then rediscover the whole thing on the PS5. :wub:

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Considering the size of that bastard bastard thing in the hospital at ground zero, my mind’s racing to imagine how big some of these things could get if they fast forwarded the series forward a couple of decades. I don’t necessarily want them to actually do some sort of awful godzilla fungus zombie, but I like to ponder how the fungus would progress!

 

Although, the early scenes with Abby escaping the hoard in the snow was properly terrifying for me! I was shouting lots of obscenities at the screen, so a full on hoard using the PS5 chops would be rather special too!

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I don't understand how the infected haven't all died out yet from starvation, like the infected do at the end of 28 Days Later. That bit with the infected in the snow still being alive after being frozen didn't make a huge amount of sense, either - they're not undead, like zombies are, so why haven't they all died of hypothermia? The fungus might take over their brains, but I don't see how it prevents them from being susceptible to things that would otherwise kill a person. It's the same when you blow one up and they can still drag themselves around, despite losing a huge amount of blood, not to mention everything else from the waist down.

 

I guess you just have to suspend your disbelief, but they seemed almost completely synonymous with zombies in this game, whereas the first made them seem distinct.

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Have to admit, that's the one thing I found to be too much of a stretch in places. There are comments from both characters about the infected having been locked in wherever they are the whole time. Come on, they'd fucking die.

 

Edit: Wait! What if the infected and fungus themselves provide sustenance? So maybe the ones that you see that are really old and have had spores explode out of them are also there to provide enough food and fluids to keep the other infected going?

 

That could work... 

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Weird sentiments in my opinion, because Abby and Ellie’s sections are quite different. Abby’s are shooting focused and she has limited ways to stealth-kill clickers. Her choices when crafting are different (the pipe bombs use different materials) and she can craft bullets for a gun that has no silencer. Plus she has a semi auto rifle from the start. With Ellie I’m using guerrilla tactics and bows, with Abby I’m running in screaming and shooting everyone until the bullets run out then switching to the melee momentum thing. I thought Abby was a way to introduce a more shooting orientated flow to the game and converge Uncharted and Last of Us somewhat. Her encounters are designed completely differently and frequently have more enemies alerted to your presence. Even before the switch when you’re being chased, or when you’re holding them off with Joel and Tommy. Very different to Ellie’s predatory stealth style I thought. Even when Ellie gets an automatic weapon it’s silenced. 

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12 minutes ago, Thor said:

Have to admit, that's the one thing I found to be too much of a stretch in places. There are comments from both characters about the infected having been locked in wherever they are the whole time. Come on, they'd fucking die.

 

Edit: Wait! What if the infected and fungus themselves provide sustenance? So maybe the ones that you see that are really old and have had spores explode out of them are also there to provide enough food and fluids to keep the other infected going?

 

That could work... 

 

Yeah, they’re not zombies. It’s their scrambled human instincts that cause them to be so aggressive. The runners still mumble almost-English at times. In one of the documentaries they describe the bloaters as being “really pissed off guys” because they’re so tortured and uncomfortable in their predicament. 
 

When you shoot the clickers fungus “crowns” off they’re stunned for a moment in a slightly drunken human way, maybe because they can see all of a sudden for the first time in ages. 

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16 minutes ago, Thor said:

Have to admit, that's the one thing I found to be too much of a stretch in places. There are comments from both characters about the infected having been locked in wherever they are the whole time. Come on, they'd fucking die.

 

Edit: Wait! What if the infected and fungus themselves provide sustenance? So maybe the ones that you see that are really old and have had spores explode out of them are also there to provide enough food and fluids to keep the other infected going?

 

That could work... 

 

I think that's as good an explanation as anything really. I mean, one can just exaggerate conditions and extremes for the purpose of the fantastical plot and it works perfectly well for me. But I don't know how well fungus does in colder weather other than I guess if there's some sort of heat being generated in the host bodies then it would probably be fine?

 

It's something that doesn't bother me too much, but it's fun discussing these things :)  

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Yeah - I didn't think about this stuff at all at the time. It's only since completing the game that it's occurred to me, so I guess it doesn't matter unless it takes you out of the moment. I always thought Bloaters where what you got when a really big fat bloke became infected.

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Already knew about the safes. ;)

Some of these are crazy though. Warm blood melting snow. :o

Or items like notes getting wet if your backpack gets wet.

 

ND is crazy.

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Just completed this. I really enjoyed it. I thought I had come to the end at least three times, but it kept on going. I still do not think it works very well when you have a companion with you and you are stealthing around and they are clearly in plain sight of enemies and they never seem to see them. A small gripe in the grand scale of the game though.

Over-hyped by some reviewers predictably, but still a great game to play through.

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1 hour ago, Sumire said:

Just completed this. I really enjoyed it. I thought I had come to the end at least three times, but it kept on going. I still do not think it works very well when you have a companion with you and you are stealthing around and they are clearly in plain sight of enemies and they never seem to see them. A small gripe in the grand scale of the game though.

Over-hyped by some reviewers predictably, but still a great game to play through.

 

Don't try to tell the arseholes in the main thread that. Some of them are trying to deny it even happens. Along with other brilliant observations like the combat system has had "a complete bloody overhaul" since the first game. 

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Laura Bailey, the actress who plays Abby, receiving death threats to herself and her child from utter pricks over Twitter:

 

20200704_074049.thumb.jpg.9c24f326c88ca7ce081d19fa5662b8c9.jpg

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Do you think they just do not realize she is just an actress and it is not real life, either that or they are just plain dumb.

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@Uncle Nasty I’ve been thinking about all the things you have said about the game and your overall score and while I would never question that as your opinion I am curious as to what game, if any would merit something like a 8/10 or higher if LoU2 is a strong 6 :)

 

For me, it’s a 10 for so many more reasons than just its gaming values, but I am really interested to know for people that it doesn’t hit the mark for... what games HAVE really impressed you?

 

Appreciate this might be slightly off topic and the powers that can be please can this if required, but it’s a really intriguing point for me. If this game simply isn’t even close to top tier, GOTY standards for some people then what is? :blink:

 

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I started Survivor+. Good stuff. Despite me skipping certain cut-scenes as I already know them, I'm completely drawn into it again and it's nice to have access to everything right from Seattle. I just really the dig the gameplay in this and unlike Grounded in the first, or UC4 on Crushing, it remains super fun to play on the highest difficulty.

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6 minutes ago, MardiganX said:

@Uncle Nasty I’ve been thinking about all the things you have said about the game and your overall score and while I would never question that as your opinion I am curious as to what game, if any would merit something like a 8/10 or higher if LoU2 is a strong 6 :)

 

For me, it’s a 10 for so many more reasons than just its gaming values, but I am really interested to know for people that it doesn’t hit the mark for... what games HAVE really impressed you?

 

Appreciate this might be slightly off topic and the powers that can be please can this if required, but it’s a really intriguing point for me. If this game simply isn’t even close to top tier, GOTY standards for some people then what is? :blink:

 

 

It was the length and lack of variety that dragged it down for me, the systems and characters outstayed their welcome and I wouldn't have noticed that anywhere near as acutely if a good few hours of flab were edited out. It could have been an easy 8 but it left me with a bad impression in the closing hours when I just wanted it to end. The outdoor sunny areas were amazing though and I loved that change of tone, also the Rattler's base with the Black Angels playing in the background was superb, especially with the chained up infected to play with. But all the flashbacks and jumping around in the story felt like disjointed padding and I didn't appreciate having to sit through that.

 

What would really make this an exceptional 9/10 would be some kind of additional PvE Horde mode where you're dropped into one of the beautifully designed levels against waves of infected and humans, punctuate it with some of the "boss" characters and make it ranked so we can compete with each other. All of the walking/talking/QTE removed and just focussed on the combat would be a potential GOTY.

 

Only straight 10/10 for me this gen is Bloodborne.

 

 

 

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Yeah the Santa Barbara sections where brilliant - they captured something really eery and unnerving, hard to put your finger on, Midsommer managed it also. 

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10 minutes ago, Uncle Nasty said:

 

It was the length and lack of variety that dragged it down for me, the systems and characters outstayed their welcome and I wouldn't have noticed that anywhere near as acutely if a good few hours of flab were edited out. It could have been an easy 8 but it left me with a bad impression in the closing hours when I just wanted it to end. The outdoor sunny areas were amazing though and I loved that change of tone, also the Rattler's base with the Black Angels playing in the background was superb, especially with the chained up infected to play with. But all the flashbacks and jumping around in the story felt like disjointed padding and I didn't appreciate having to sit through that.

 

What would really make this an exceptional 9/10 would be some kind of additional PvE Horde mode where you're dropped into one of the beautifully designed levels against waves of infected and humans, punctuate it with some of the "boss" characters and make it ranked so we can compete with each other. All of the walking/talking/QTE removed and just focussed on the combat would be a potential GOTY.

 

Only straight 10/10 for me this gen is Bloodborne.

 

 

 

 

See that... there just isn’t enough of that these days. A completely understandable and well broken down justification for what most feel is a game of the generation just not hitting the mark for you :)

 

As as I said earlier, I have no interest in disputing your view or score and the BB comparison is very important context. I agree whatever they go onto do with MP, especially a horde variant will elevate it further so hopefully we see that sooner rather than later.

 

Where every piece of interactive story telling had me completely hooked that kind of stuff seems to have detracted from your experience and given your BB love that makes perfect sense. A few hours into my NG+ this is comfortably the game of the generation for me and I know it’s going to feel even better replaying certain sections. 

 

I look forward to giving you a shout when MP lands ;)

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