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Games that throw a never (or rarely used) set of new commands at you, out of the blue. The

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final bike ride bit

 in chapter 18 of FFVII Remake is a great example

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(although yeah I did admittedly have to do something similar right back at the beginning of the game).

 

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I equally didn't enjoy the solo fight with Rufus in chapter 17, having spent most of the game playing as a two or three person team,

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On 21/06/2020 at 09:12, Rayn said:

Stealth missions, particularly in non-stealth games

Escort missions

 

On 21/06/2020 at 09:53, Qazimod said:

Tailing missions. Don’t stray too far away or you’ll “lose” him even though you can still see him as the scene is fading out... but don’t get too close and make him suspicious!

 

These are often really poor but I think in theory stealth, escort and tailing (or let's say 'intel gathering') can make for some really compelling gameplay if done properly. First of all, it shouldn't be forced upon the player. Staying hidden, protecting NPCs and gathering intel can all be really fun and absorbing if the player chooses to do it, and screwing it up doesn't result in a 'mission failed' screen.

 

Mark Brown touched on this in his recent stealth series, where the most basic implementation is to give a 'game over' screen when spotted. Luckily it's a thing of the past although bizarrely both Spider-man and Days Gone still seem to think it was an acceptable thing to foist upon players in recent times.

 

Stealth is very mature as a gameplay style these days. Stay hidden and feel like a badass, but if you're cover is blown the game adapts and it's still fun, plus you can regain the advantage by losing your pursuers. It's all very dynamic and emergent.

 

Similarly, escorting NPCs is fine is they are not mission-critical. If I were designing a game I would never have a story-critical NPCs out in the field, as both escorting a character who is not allowed to die (resulting in 'game over' screens due to AI ineptitude) and rule-breaking, invincible NPC buddies are two of my bugbears.

 

However, looking after expendable NPCs who actually add value (for example by carrying a weapon for you, or running interference on enemies), but who can die and be lost forever, while the player carries on, can be brilliant. Halo's marines are my favourite for this. Keeping a little troupe alive is Halo's best mini-game. I liked the generic, expendable NPC buddies in Far Cry 5 but, crucially, I did not like the unkillable special NPC buddies. Dead Rising also did escorting really well. It was really tough getting those survivors back to the safe house - clearing a path for them, ordering them to waypoints, getting weapons for them - but also really satisfying, because the game allowed them to die while the player lives on, which made the player feel guilt rather than frustration.

 

The same principle applies again to intel-gathering. Let the player eavesdrop or tail an NPC to get some extra little secret or bit of story colour, but don't make it mandatory. If the NPCs get spooked and intel is lost, the mission design should be such that the player can carry on but nothing too critical is lost. Hitman is the master of intel-gthering. It's totally absorbing when you're trying to build up a picture of how to take down your target under your own steam. But when you're doing it simply because the game has mandated it, it's rubbish.

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@Pob Yeah, none of that sounds fun still. And I've never felt that hiding away out of sight to be empowering or 'badass'. Still, each to their own etc.

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12 minutes ago, Pob said:

 

However, looking after expendable NPCs who actually add value (for example by carrying a weapon for you, or running interference on enemies), but who can die and be lost forever, while the player carries on, can be brilliant.

 

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5 hours ago, Uncle Mike said:

My bug bear this gen has been flower picking. From Far Cry 3 to The Witcher to Horizon Zero Dawn to RDR2 to Days Gone and many more (and soon to be found, I'm sure, in Ghost of Tsushima) these games have you out gathering plants because that's really fun gameplay. So annoying.

 

I think that perhaps I might prefer it if games had no dropping loot. At all. Just money.

 

Then two things would become true:

 

1) Shops are the only way to get items, if you have the cash

2) You wouldn't have to worry about whether the shiny weapon that the shop has in stock is just going to be instantly made obselete and a waste of money by the next dungeon you enter.

 

You could even add a FUN NEW GAMEPLAY ELEMENT where you have to weigh up whether to buy the new Bastard Sword +1 from the merchant, and have it right now, or buy it from the online spirit world for cheaper but have to wait a whole 1 day for it to arrive.

 

Or agonise that despite having a spirit rating of 4.5 stars from 1000+ reviewers, that one 2 star review just nags at you because it was well written and considered so maybe you won't risk it anyway and just stick with the pointy stick that did you this well so far.

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  • 1 month later...

Being forced to play as another character for a short time.

 

So I'm playing Spider-man and really enjoying it. The freedom, the web-slinging, the kinetic fights, the feeling of super-heroness.

 

And now I'm suddenly walking around as MJ. Huh?

 

Assassins Creed is particularly guilty of this too. Talk about a passion killer.

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Not so much a turn-off as an annoyance, but RPGs that don't award XP to those not in your immediate party, meaning all too quickly they can fall a long way behind, almost forcing you to grind them up. Because that's always fun.

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2 hours ago, Gabe said:

Not so much a turn-off as an annoyance, but RPGs that don't award XP to those not in your immediate party, meaning all too quickly they can fall a long way behind, almost forcing you to grind them up. Because that's always fun.

 

I think you could make a whole thread about the stupid, tedious tropes seen in RPGs.

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On 23/06/2020 at 14:20, cowfields said:

 

You could even add a FUN NEW GAMEPLAY ELEMENT where you have to weigh up whether to buy the new Bastard Sword +1 from the merchant, and have it right now, or buy it from the online spirit world for cheaper but have to wait a whole 1 day for it to arrive.

I don't really want wish.com in my games...

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‘Oh, a locked door. I bet the key’s on the other side of the map, let’s go and look’.

 

’Aha, got it. Right, let’s trek back to that door. Yep, that’s the right key, so what’s behind the door? Oh, just a lever. Now I wonder what this does? Of course, it’s opened a door on the other side of the map where I’ve just come from’.

 

Oh do fuck off.

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Playing Uncharted 4 last night and whilst brilliant, Nathan Drake can scale huge buildings, use a grappling hook and swing huge distances but when faced with a small shingle slope he is totally foxed. 

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I hate when I just want a linear experience and the game im playing opens up into open world, which I hate. Gears 5 just did it, I just want to chainsaw stuff not sail around in some jet ski

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41 minutes ago, carlospie said:

I hate when I just want a linear experience and the game im playing opens up into open world, which I hate. Gears 5 just did it, I just want to chainsaw stuff not sail around in some jet ski

 

I'm with you on this. Currently playing Uncharted Lost Legacy and the open area I'm in is just a pain in the arse. 

 

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New talents and skills late into the game.

Am well over 40 hours in Ghost of Tsushima and grew accustomed to a play style I like. Yet the game keeps giving me new charms (which are like small alteration to default stats such as +15% stealth, more health and a 40% change to recover arrows). Granted, I am the type that does all of there side stuff before moving on to a new zone so maybe I am not the target audience for these charms, but even then most charms are found by doing side stuff. So what's the point?

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@df0 Ah, but the flip side to that is games that give you everything too early, removing any rewards for later play. Like in life, it's good to keep learning new stuff.

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It mildly annoys me when games in long-running series reuse the title of the original, without any numbers or subtitles. It's usually intended to convey a fresh start, a back-to-basics return to the original design philosophy, jettisoning years of accumulated bloat.

 

That's fine at the time they're initially being released and marketed. But in the long term, it gets annoying because fans always have to specify which version is being talked about, either by adding the year ("Doom 2016”) or the format ("Xbox Ninja Gaiden"). So they might as well just add the year into the official title in the first place!

 

Examples:

 

Sonic the Hedgehog 2006 (which, it turned out after that misleading initial trailer, very much wasn't a return to the original design philosophy!)

Doom 2016

Ninja Gaiden 2004

Star Wars Battlefront 2015 and Star Wars Battlefront II 2017 (though apparently the LucasArts originals have colons, and the new EA ones don't!)

Prince of Persia 2008

Tomb Raider 2013

Sega Rally (the European title of the 2007 Sega Rally Revo)

 

 

Or in the form of an imaginary conversation:

 

"I really liked DmC."

"Yeah, it was one of my favourite PS2 games."

"No, I mean the Ninja Theory one."

 

See? It just causes unnecessary confusion that could easily be avoided! :quote:

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5 hours ago, Ry said:

 

I'm with you on this. Currently playing Uncharted Lost Legacy and the open area I'm in is just a pain in the arse. 

 

100%. After that point and it returns to linearity it turns into pretty much the best uncharted . 

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Witcher vision, detective vision, whatever devs call it. Not only is it really boring to follow trails, it also fills the screen with ugly filters. Away with this shit mechanic.

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7 minutes ago, PeteBrant said:

100%. After that point and it returns to linearity it turns into pretty much the best uncharted . 

 

Cool. Nearly finished this section I think and was ready to give up. 

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4 minutes ago, Vemsie said:

Witcher vision, detective vision, whatever devs call it. Not only is it really boring to follow trails, it also fills the screen with ugly filters. Away with this shit mechanic.

 

Any kind of 'seeing through walls' unless it's tightly controlled. I don't like the 'mark and track' thing pioneered by the first Far Cry (I turned it off in MGSV and Ghost Recon Wildlands) but I didn't mind its implementation in The Last of Us 2. I rarely used it though.

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Pretty much anything that's in Days Gone. I picked this up cheap and persevered with it since it seems to have a lot of Rllmuk fans... but man it's practically a shopping list of turn offs.

 

Huge journeys across a map to trigger a lengthy cut scene followed by journeys back in the opposite direction? Check.

A primary means of transport that isn't fun but is essential to cover the huge map? Yep.

Missions that require you to leave a place and then return pointlessly in order to trigger? Oh yes.

 

And perhaps worst of all, a hefty storyline featuring awful characters, charmless performances, a stupid plot, banal or idiotic dialogue and basically absolutely nothing to justify the time spent with any of the cut scenes.

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25 minutes ago, Hewson said:

Pretty much anything that's in Days Gone. I picked this up cheap and persevered with it since it seems to have a lot of Rllmuk fans... but man it's practically a shopping list of turn offs.

 

Huge journeys across a map to trigger a lengthy cut scene followed by journeys back in the opposite direction? Check.

A primary means of transport that isn't fun but is essential to cover the huge map? Yep.

Missions that require you to leave a place and then return pointlessly in order to trigger? Oh yes.

 

And perhaps worst of all, a hefty storyline featuring awful characters, charmless performances, a stupid plot, banal or idiotic dialogue and basically absolutely nothing to justify the time spent with any of the cut scenes.

You’re gonna have a fight on your hands with this one . Days gone is the bad guy turned good everyone  loves

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12 minutes ago, PeteBrant said:

You’re gonna have a fight on your hands with this one . Days gone is the bad guy turned good everyone  loves

Yeah, I know - I really tried to get beyond it all but for me it's riddled with awful things.

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Just now, Hewson said:

Yeah, I know - I really tried to get beyond it all but for me it's riddled with awful things.

One mans treasure is another mans boring shite . I really enjoyed it but it takes about 10 hours to get into its stride . 

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I tried the Ori demo the other day and I’m sure the game is fine but I was *infuriated* by the opening. Presumably they wanted to give you control as soon as possible rather than starting the game with a long cutscene - good! - but breaking up a cutscene with lots of little bits of gameplay where all you do is walk towards a thing to trigger the next part is very much the worst of both worlds.  Cry? I did - with frustration! Etc etc.

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On 27/07/2020 at 19:11, Made of Ghosts said:

I tried the Ori demo the other day and I’m sure the game is fine but I was *infuriated* by the opening. Presumably they wanted to give you control as soon as possible rather than starting the game with a long cutscene - good! - but breaking up a cutscene with lots of little bits of gameplay where all you do is walk towards a thing to trigger the next part is very much the worst of both worlds.  Cry? I did - with frustration! Etc etc.

I tried the first part of the demo and had the same reaction. After all the praise this turned me stone cold - what a terrible demo! Of course, I'm sure the game blossoms but it put me off making a purchase.

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