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Horizon Forbidden West - Grapple + Glider = Aloy 2.0


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57 minutes ago, Flanders said:


Or alternatively we can just add ‘this sort of game’ to the ever increasingly giant pile of genres that certain types of gamerZ don’t consider to be legitimate. Given that said pile already includes most online first person shooters, Fortnite, Minecraft, virtually all sports games and 100pc of mobile games, sure why the fuck not, games that people like are for losers anyway.

 

Looking forward to our glorious future where the only videogames worthy of praise and discussion are From Software titles, the latest indy metroidvania and of course anything from Nintendo, who are no doubt planning to revolutionise the form with Mario Kart 9 and Smash Brothers 6.

 

 

 

You're reading a different post to the one that was made.

 

This is a mega-budget game with extremely high production values, and a ridiculous length. It's a theme park. There's only room for a couple of theme park size games a year.

As the production values go ever up and the theme parks keep cribbing off each other, certain tropes keep turning up because they're less risky.

 

I'd apply the same argument to every other category of games you've got there (including From Software) in terms of tropes, but they're not always as wrapped up in production to the point where crucial gameplay details can get obscured, tasks (collect your GTA pigeons!) that end up feeling like busywork, or fifteen different currencies as a proxy for a crafting system. Which are the specific weird tropes you find in the likes of Horizon, GoT, Assassin's Creed, etc.

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All videogame genres have specific weird tropes and loads of cross-pollination between each title, and the success and quality of each title is determined either by how well they subvert them, or much more commonly by how well they execute them.

 

In this specific case of big-budget open world adventure it’s pretty clear that there are plenty of aspects of the genre that lots of people like and that some games execute better than others. Why do I love the Horizon games but can’t stick any of the modern Assassins Creeds if they are all the same game? Why did I like Days Gone more than Ghost of Tsushima? How did Witcher 3 manage to be such a great game when so many of its main component parts are weaker than its inferior children?

 

It’s just frustrating, this blanket dismissal of genres, because once you dismiss them you don’t have to bother evaluating them in any depth and when that happens you fundamentally stop understanding them and your opinion is worth fuck all. The end point is you get what we had on here in the Activision takeover topic where there was post after post of completely out of touch nonsense about how Call of Duty isn’t apparently a big deal anymore.

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30 minutes ago, Stanley said:

The melee combat rocks, it’s way better than the first game now IMO. 

Yeh I had a surprising good time with a dude with a shield albeit I had not spent a single point on that. 

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2 hours ago, footle said:

 

You're reading a different post to the one that was made.

 

This is a mega-budget game with extremely high production values, and a ridiculous length. It's a theme park. There's only room for a couple of theme park size games a year.

As the production values go ever up and the theme parks keep cribbing off each other, certain tropes keep turning up because they're less risky.

 

I'd apply the same argument to every other category of games you've got there (including From Software) in terms of tropes, but they're not always as wrapped up in production to the point where crucial gameplay details can get obscured, tasks (collect your GTA pigeons!) that end up feeling like busywork, or fifteen different currencies as a proxy for a crafting system. Which are the specific weird tropes you find in the likes of Horizon, GoT, Assassin's Creed, etc.

Conversely complexity (for example in currencies and crafting materials) can give a game longevity. It is a bit of a tight rope innit? 

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Folks (welcome to the internet!) are really twisting the argument I and Cavalcade are trying to make (and I think have made and we can probably shut up now).
I have no problem with this genre. The reason Oz doubtless is particularly loving it is because he hasn't played anything in this genre for 3 years.

 

Even if you love ice cream, if you have to eat it every day its gets boring. And even if you're eating good but not great ice cream every day, you might not be up for the gourmet Michelin star ice cream after all that. Especially when it takes 100 hours to eat.

When I first played God of War after Spiderman (I hadn't had a console in years before the PS4) I couldn't believe how similar it was - the skill trees, the open world, the collectables, the side quests, even the menu system and controls. I was like huh, so this is just a 'type of game' now. AC: Valhalla was also really really great (I loved the setting) but it was also absurdly, ridiculously too long.

Again, no one is saying H:FW isn't likely a fantastic example of the genre, and I probably will pick it up. But I'm also happy if we reserve 90+ meta-scores for things that are slightly more original.

And yes: there's another whole thread in here about the cost of production of these superb owl fests vs. taking risks with new game mechanics. See also triple A movies, etc. etc.

 

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12 minutes ago, RJames said:

Folks (welcome to the internet!) are really twisting the argument I and Cavalcade are trying to make (and I think have made and we can probably shut up now).
I have no problem with this genre. The reason Oz doubtless is particularly loving it is because he hasn't played anything in this genre for 3 years.

 

Even if you love ice cream, if you have to eat it every day its gets boring. And even if you're eating good but not great ice cream every day, you might not be up for the gourmet Michelin star ice cream after all that. Especially when it takes 100 hours to eat.

When I first played God of War after Spiderman (I hadn't had a console in years before the PS4) I couldn't believe how similar it was - the skill trees, the open world, the collectables, the side quests, even the menu system and controls. I was like huh, so this is just a 'type of game' now. AC: Valhalla was also really really great (I loved the setting) but it was also absurdly, ridiculously too long.

Again, no one is saying H:FW isn't likely a fantastic example of the genre, and I probably will pick it up. But I'm also happy if we reserve 90+ meta-scores for things that are slightly more original.

And yes: there's another whole thread in here about the cost of production of these superb owl fests vs. taking risks with new game mechanics. See also triple A movies, etc. etc.

 


I think what I find bizarre is the leap you can make from ‘these games have some similar mechanics’ to ‘these are the same game repeated over and over’.

 

God of War/Spiderman is a really good example, in fact. Of course there are some very pronounced similarities. They each have numerous bits where everything slows down and you go about a room pressing triangle prompts that make your character remark on something. They have the verboten skill trees! 
 

But on another level they don’t play anything alike at all. God of War isn’t even really an open world game in the Ubisofty sense. It’s actually quite an odd duck in a number of ways - the continuous one-shot approach, you only get two weapons, side quests are small in number but mostly bespoke and you kind of semi-control a second character throughout most of the game. 
 

Spiderman is definitely a much more conventional checklist open worlder in structure, but it’s an example of one that’s really well executed because of some distinct design decisions. It has really fun traversal that transfers into a generally fast pace that other open worlders don’t have - you can blast through the main campaign in about 20

hours, side activities are mostly bite sized and even collecting shit isn’t a drag because its enjoyable to swing about being Spidey.

 

Talking about design is interesting! It’s so much more interesting than tedious dismissal.
 

Even the dreaded skill trees are worth discussing! God of War is another interesting example there because I think that actually has a really good focused skill tree that introduces and encourages new ways of playing the game as it gets harder and you get better. Whereas for sure there are plenty of skill trees that have a load of pointless guff - Tsushima was definitely a culprit that springs to mind.

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I did not love GoW for some reason. I have not finished it. I have started over maybe ten times. more recently on PC which was the best yet but still I could not be asked for some reason. I did not play either Spider-Man. I gave away a copy of miles morales I had to a friend as a present. I think I probably would like those but I am more of a DC person. the last AC I played was black flag. I could not finish the last of us 2 because it was stressing me out. I really loved the first horizon. at the time I liked it as much as botw but I appreciate with time that the latter was a more significant milestone in game design. I like icecream. 

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17 minutes ago, Thor said:

Finished it. Now to read the thread and laugh at the haters, because despite some issues, I fucking loved it!


That’s crazy 😁, it’ll likely take me months once I do eventually get it.

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Wondering if this is a bug or not, but has anyone heard the machine death croak that was so prevalent in Zero Dawn? Really missing it here as it was a good audio cue that you had downed a machine. 

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1 minute ago, teddymeow said:

So why can Aloy not use the 

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Glidewing as a shield?

 

 

There was a tiny bit of dialogue when she got it that said something like -

 

Spoiler

too damaged to use as a shield, but could still use it to glide.

 

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2 minutes ago, teddymeow said:

So why can Aloy not use the 

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Glidewing as a shield?

 

Spoiler

Not enough buttons.

 

sorry, in the lore it’s because it was damaged too much in the embassy fight.

 

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I was thinking that, but the melee is so good and all based around none defensive play. At first I was a bit wary but now I’m super aggressive with it, and you can unlock some great combos and abilities. 
 

This game is superb btw, don’t pass on it. 

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Yesterday I spent a few minutes on top of an antenna looking for the side which was closest to the tall neck. Then looking for another switch that maybe extended one side. Took me ages to remember I could paraglide. My experience with the first horizon sort of works against me sometimes because I forget about new systems. It is enough like the original that you can sometimes feel like you are just continuing that game. 

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