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Demon's Souls Remake - PS5 launch game (also coming to PC)


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Just now, Broker said:

he issue is the industry, the media and consumers are all ridiculously obsessed with graphics, mainly because they are a very, very easy thing to sell. Consumers can understand graphical differences easily even if they only have images. Frame rate improvements aren’t even really that visible in video, they only make a difference to your experience. So they’re hard to communicate. This creates a cycle where graphics are prioritised over pretty much everything, and there’s nothing developers can do about that. If your boss outright tells you that the game is aiming for the best graphics possible at 30fps, you don’t get to argue. And all publishers are obsessed with forcing developers to prioritise graphics over anything else. So the game gets built for the PS5, looking as good as it can at 30fps and the best we can hope for is an option to reverse that shit decision. 

 

And even when they can't, or wouldn't, we have Digital Foundry analysing every last pixel on display and pointing out how the ambient occlusion on machine A is slightly inferior to machine B, thus perpetuating the importance of graphics over everything else. There's no similarly high-profile analysis of audio design, game design, AI quality etc. If those things were the subject of the same scrutiny I wonder what affect it might have on market trends.

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I don't have a problem with sub-4K resolutions and firmly believe we're in a post-resolution era with good enough and am happy with a variety of solutions including good TAA, checkerboarding and DLSS. I'd be very happy with a 60fps mode that's sub-4K if it looks great using one of the techniques above.

 

You're right that we don't know what the final presentation will be, but the fact that we have to choose between "performance" and "graphics" is still disappointing to me, largely because of how poorly these modes have been implemented thus far. They often either don't hit target framerates, or the resolution mode is the clear winner with the 60fps looking absolutely horrendous on a 4K display, because it's a lazy 1080p job with no attempt to make it look good if played on a 4K telly. I guess we'll see when it comes out.

 

Broker, I take your point.

 

 

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If you want the most depressing story I’ve ever heard that’s relevant to this here it is:

 

A guy I know worked at a big UK developer that was absorbed by a giant publisher. An executive from the publisher came to see an FPS they were working on that never got released, and guy had to demo it for the executive. Him and the team felt that the game played and ran smoothly, and were very proud of it. The executive initially refused to play it because it was “so ugly”, and asked repeatedly why it looked like a game that would run on last gen hardware. So guy loads up a different build, one that looks more fancy but runs worse, and demonstrates it to the exec, then lets him play it, emphasising how much better it feels to play a game that runs smoothly, and how frustrating things can feel in the version that runs poorly.

 

After this, the executive turns to him, clearly excited, and asks how good they could make it look if it was running at 15fps. 

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People discussing the lack of technological improvement without having even seen the actual product in motion. Wow. Shocker you guys don't work for digital foundry with such expertise. 

 

FFVII is a remake of a psone game. Why isn't it running at 1000fps at 8k? I know console gamers haven't had to deal with the graphical cost of ray tracing yet as we have in the pc space but it isn't cheap. Maybe be armed with some knowledge and information before going off on frankly dumb takes about why a clearly talented developer tech wise might not know what they're doing or being lazy. All that comes out is the news that people have a choice and people can't understand the basic reasons of why. 

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22 minutes ago, Uzi said:

People discussing the lack of technological improvement without having even seen the actual product in motion. Wow. Shocker you guys don't work for digital foundry with such expertise. 

 

FFVII is a remake of a psone game. Why isn't it running at 1000fps at 8k? I know console gamers haven't had to deal with the graphical cost of ray tracing yet as we have in the pc space but it isn't cheap. Maybe be armed with some knowledge and information before going off on frankly dumb takes about why a clearly talented developer tech wise might not know what they're doing or being lazy. All that comes out is the news that people have a choice and people can't understand the basic reasons of why. 

 

10/10 great strawmanning would read again

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3 hours ago, HarryBizzle said:

Yeah, it looks lovely, but the environment size and enemy density is still from a game designed to run on a PS3, which is what I assumed Uzi was talking about when he said native PS5 software is more resource hungry than native PS4.

 

To be fair, they haven’t announced what the two modes involve. Maybe the performance one is higher than 1080p.

BTW my rant above is in general and not aimed entirely at you  been hearing it from friends who think next gen consoles are magical computational machines. So my eyes have been rolling for a while even though games like valhalla have been confirmed as running as 30fps on series x to my knowledge at high res.

 

 

They're still custom (very custom) pcs essentially and you just need to look at benchmarks of a 2070 super which can't run games like AC odyssey at 4k 60fps to get some kind of expectation. Obviously you will get console efficiency and the advantage of working towards one hardware build but here is what I mean re ps4. 

 

People think becayse they had ps4 games 1080p 60 in the pro in some games you'll magically get 4k 60 on the ps5 on ps5 games. First of all the ps5 is not four times the power (the pixel count vs 1080p) of the pro gpu wise if you go off teraflops and secondly software on the ps5 won't be games designed for the base ps4. They will be more demanding the same way ps4 games were more demanding than ps3 games. 

 

The reality is if you want 4k all effects like ray tracing and high refresh rate on all titles you'll need to invest in the latest pc hardware coming out later this year. You can't even get that today. 

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Much as I love From's games, I'm kind of expecting this to look and run better than Elden Ring. I'm sure Bluepoint will prioritise proper frame pacing, for one thing.

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2 minutes ago, Ferine said:

Much as I love From's games, I'm kind of expecting this to look and run better than Elden Ring

 

I think Bluepoint have started work on the remake.

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I think the real question we should be asking is why would we want anything to run at 4K when you could be using that extra power for literally anything else and it would be more interesting. 

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11 minutes ago, Broker said:

I think the real question we should be asking is why would we want anything to run at 4K when you could be using that extra power for literally anything else and it would be more interesting. 

1440p is definitely an excellent sweet spot. With good upscaling tech and a decent distance from a screen and most genuinely wouldn't be able to tell the diff.  Much smarter for that power to be used for other things. 

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12 minutes ago, Broker said:

I think the real question we should be asking is why would we want anything to run at 4K when you could be using that extra power for literally anything else and it would be more interesting. 

I agree, but I think most games released around launch for the new consoles are going to target 4K to avoid the kind of resolution-based backlash that dogged the Xbox One. Sony and Microsoft kind of made rods for their own backs by banging the resolution drum for the last few years.

 

On the upside, if games as amazing looking as Horizon II are pushing native 4K I can only imagine how good things will look in a couple of years once developers back off that rather arbitrary target.

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It’s like when EA complain that they have to stuff their games with unethical monetisation because modern games are so expensive, due to the need to hire thousands of artists to meet the graphical “demands” of the audience. Then they make endless lazy trailers prioritising pretty graphics, and sell their games in the most superficial, lazy way possible, and face constant backlash for the perceived problems in the quality of their games. They decide to ignore everything except pretty graphics, then their audience only cares about pretty graphics and the games are shit. 
 

Meanwhile, Minecraft sells another ten million copies to an audience that apparently won’t buy things that aren’t ray traced at 4K.

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21 minutes ago, Ferine said:

A new screenshot has emerged, albeit not full resolution:

 

ps5-demonsouls-video-thumb-block-07-en-1

Yeah people don't need to worry about the game being too bright or cheery. The intro in the original didn't entirely reflect the actual game engine feel anyway so I think too much worry was placed on that reveal of the intro remake. 

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24 minutes ago, Uzi said:

Yeah people don't need to worry about the game being too bright or cheery. The intro in the original didn't entirely reflect the actual game engine feel anyway so I think too much worry was placed on that reveal of the intro remake. 

 

That screenshot makes it look exactly like what I thought it would look like, if you get what I mean.

 

Looks fantastic, either way. HYPE!

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If I remember correctly, when you die in this game, you revive in a spirit form right, with half your HP (analogous to hollowing in later games)? And in that state you have a ghostly glow around you the whole time (similar to Shadow of the Colossus's character lighting, funny enough) and there's also a strange noise when you're struck by an enemy...

 

Anyway, has there been any sign of this in the new screens/footage? Having played almost entirely in this form because I died a lot, I wonder if they've toned down the effect, or removed it completely?

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  • 2 months later...

Bah I hate having two threads for the same game! 

 

I think something looks off about it. Like how the character moves seem weird. Like he's over-animated or something. 

 

Also, is coming to PC and other platforms :D

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