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Demon's Souls Remake - PS5 launch game (also coming to PC)


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8 hours ago, Marlew said:

 

Why should it be more acceptable for a new IP to be priced higher than a ground-up remake? What do you think value is? What do you think you're paying for? Serious question. What do you think you're paying for? 

 

Should sequels which reuse the same engine be cheaper than the originals? Should iterative sports games become cheaper throughout the generations? I mean...Have you actually thought about what you're saying? Please tell me you're on the wind up.

 

Edit: I don't mean to be unpleasant there, but I appreciate it comes off as exasperated. I just really can't understand. 

 


Ah now that’s disappointing. You had me rooting for you right up until you edited in your limp disclaimer. If you’re going to be overly abrupt just commit to it and accept the consequences.

 

£70 for any game in these trying times is absolutely scandalous. So while my comment was related to Demons Souls, which you seem quite precious about, it would be the same for any game that received this re-make treatment and was then priced the same as original versions of new games. I thought my follow up about DMC5 would have covered that but guess not.

 

Im happy to be proven otherwise but I’ve not seen anything to suggest Demons Souls is anything other than a polished upgrade of the original, rather than the ground up re-make you suggest. The gameplay looks identical from these comparison videos so perhaps YOU can tell ME what people are paying for if £70 is a fair price.

 

I don’t need you to answer that by the way. I can make my own mind up as everyone else is entitled to do, but if your argument was the same as @Vemsie, which is basically ‘I love it and I don’t care what you think’, then I could respect that. As I said, that is exactly how I am about DMC 5.

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As someone who's never enjoyed the series, I saw the PS5 trailer and thought it looked much better on account of its faster, more realistic (yeah, I know!) combat. Then I watched that video and see they were using a massively levelled-up character.

 

I'd definitely try a Souls again if they made its combat as pacy as Dead Cells', compensating for easier kills with more enemies.

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I'm curious to see if they have changed anything other than just the cosmetics. Watching that side by side comparison is a little underwhelming. Aside from shinier visuals it looks exactly the same, and having just played it through, it still plays fine. I'm not sure some quality of life improvements justify the £70 tag.

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@MardiganX

 

I'll break it down. 

 

The point I raised is not about my perceived value of Demon's Souls - or even about Demon's Souls. There's nothing more to say along that line of discussion. You misunderstood. 

 

It's about your suggestion that only 'an original game' is worth a particular price.

 

That's not how value works.

 

Should Limited Edition Kit Kats be cheaper? 

 

I don't need you to answer that, by the way. We both already know. 

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15 minutes ago, Marlew said:

@MardiganX

 

I'll break it down. 

 

The point I raised is not about my perceived value of Demon's Souls - or even about Demon's Souls. There's nothing more to say along that line of discussion. You misunderstood. 

 

It's about your suggestion that only 'an original game' is worth a particular price.

 

That's not how value works.

 

Should Limited Edition Kit Kats be cheaper? 

 

I don't need you to answer that, by the way. We both already know. 

An original game needs more pre production and work in the design area before hitting production and then needs constantly checking to make sure it's still good and enjoyable and it all works and you can still hit deadline and budget and everything. Not all those things apply to just remastering something as you already have the design in front of you. I'm not disputing the level of work, but if all you are doing is slavishly copying something and slapping a layer of nicer paint on it, I'm not sure it deserves to be the same price as something that did not have that benefit and was hand crafted from scratch.

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Yeah @Marlew the critical point is that the ‘particular price’ is the absolute top end of what they think they can get away with at the moment and the game itself just looks to be a lavish presentation overhaul rather than adding to or developing the core gameplay mechanics that were so successful all those years ago.

 

Demons Souls is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. Some people might be willing to pay more for it, some people less. It’s value is not £70. That’s just the number that the sellers have decided is acceptable for them. 
 

My original point, rather innocently I thought, was whether top end pricing for straight presentational upgrades of old games was acceptable given it’s not something I think we have seen this gen. As incredible as it may be it still sets a worrying precedent for future game prices, which as you quite rightly pointed out is already the trend for annual sports game releases. Those are slightly different given most people tend to play them most days until the new version comes out but it’s the same issue.

 

I’m most likely going to pick up Demons Souls on disc and then sell it once I’ve either finished it or it’s broken me :) but that doesn’t mean I have to accept the fact that on the surface, it appears to be the exact same game with a new suit of epic armour on.

 

 

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@squirtle

 

I'm specifically not making that argument, as I say. I appreciate the point you're making, though, and it does come back to the initial question I asked about the perception of value:

 

What do you think you're paying for? 

 

Should Daft Punk's Random Access Memories (to cite a wildly expensive, expansive studio production) cost more than a Robbie Williams cover album?

 

I feel it's related to the common gamer question of 'how long to beat?' or the complaints about the Mario re-releases.

 

Value is impossible to pin down in that way. 

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2 minutes ago, Marlew said:

@squirtle

 

I'm specifically not making that argument, as I say. I appreciate the point you're making, though, and it does come back to the initial question I asked about the perception of value:

 

What do you think you're paying for? 

 

Should Daft Punk's Random Access Memories (to cite a wildly expensive, expansive studio production) cost more than a Robbie Williams cover album?

 

I feel it's related to the common gamer question of 'how long to beat?' or the complaints about the Mario re-releases.

 

Value is impossible to pin down in that way. 

Everything should cost more than a Robbie Williams album. I think you're arguing for something here because you love the souls series, whilst other people are saying it's hard to justify the same game with a lick of paint on it. 

 

I compare this to the RE2 remake or even the REmake on the GameCube and they brought new things to the table. If this does, then fair enough. But nothing shown so far suggests it does.

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6 minutes ago, squirtle said:

Everything should cost more than a Robbie Williams album. I think you're arguing for something here because you love the souls series, whilst other people are saying it's hard to justify the same game with a lick of paint on it. 

 

I compare this to the RE2 remake or even the REmake on the GameCube and they brought new things to the table. If this does, then fair enough. But nothing shown so far suggests it does.

 

I can see why my Souls lunacy has muddied the waters here.

 

To be completely frank, and to reference Demon's Souls directly, if I tried to make an argument on the basis of labour or development time or whatever objective measure, I couldn't come up with a justification for it costing seventy quid. I'm not attempting to. 

 

I was questioning exactly that line of thinking that there's an objective framework to determine what a game is worth in the market. Market value is simply decided by what people will pay. Obviously, you know this, I'm just spelling out the point I'm making. 

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11 minutes ago, Marlew said:

 

I can see why my Souls lunacy has muddied the waters here.

 

To be completely frank, and to reference Demon's Souls directly, if I tried to make an argument on the basis of labour or development time or whatever objective measure, I couldn't come up with a justification for it costing seventy quid. I'm not attempting to. 

 

I was questioning exactly that line of thinking that there's an objective framework to determine what a game is worth in the market. Market value is simply decided by what people will pay. Obviously, you know this, I'm just spelling out the point I'm making. 

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I think a lot of people are looking at this and thinking £70 is not a fair price.

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@squirtle

 

It may end up as this gen's Knack if that's what the audience decides. I'm not being facetious. I was quite taken aback by the seventy quid figure and I'd expected sixty as standard. If customers baulk, I'm sure the price will quickly come down. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Marlew said:

@squirtle

 

It may end up as this gen's Knack if that's what the audience decides. I'm not being facetious. I was quite taken aback by the seventy quid figure and I'd expected sixty as standard. If customers baulk, I'm sure the price will quickly come down. 

 

Are you telling me I just spent thirty hours playing the PS3 equivalent of Knack!? :o:o:o

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1 minute ago, Marlew said:

You bastard. It took me thirty hours to get to the Tower Knight first time around. 

Really!? Aside from the Flamelurker, I thought it was relatively easy. Come and chat about it in the other thread. I'd love to hear your thoughts.

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I was thinking about this earlier - £50 to £70 is a BIG FUCKING JUMP! 

 

I'll feel it more than most because its a remake of a game i already own 3 copies of, and have played for more hours than all the other Souls games combined. 

 

You can see my trepidation. ;) 

 

Other than the price (console included), i know Demon's is not a big game compared to the others. So its a money spent vs hours enjoyed sort of conundrum for me, Curtis.

 

I imagine when its released, there will be the usual hype and excitement in this thread and it'll be page after page of 'people out of practice'. 'I don't remember this'. Maybe even some Bluepoint surprises they added. BUT! I know for a fact, the very next day (maximum) i will be posting that i've completed it and the credits have rolled. 

 

Then what? Jolly coop of course. But i'm not sure what else they're gonna give me...personally. Demon's was the first Souls and build diversity was okay-ish, but not extensive. I have many builds over multilple fake accounts (when PSN was free) and i have guided many a fine folk off this very forum to success. I love that part of it, and when the servers went offline, i felt it was gone forever.

 

Aside from coop I spent hundreds of hours sitting up til 4-5am hosting PvP arenas in 4-1 with the JPN players, which at the time, was something brand new for me. I used to shit myself when it was my turn, but win or lose, it was a weird little community that could only express themselves through emotes, and chucking Augites of Guidance on the floor (the sparkly gems). Every now and again someone would drop an awesome weapon or Pure Stone. And it was beautiful because everyone shared.

 

The US version arrived and online was a completely different animal. And not a pleasent one. Thats all i'll say.

 

Finally the EU version arrived. And since then easy comms and party chat had arrived to consoles, so every 'not-so-jolly' coop random, sends you a chat invite! "Hi"....Yeah, will you drop all your +10 gear on the floor...i promise i'll be back online in a sec".

 

I was dumbfounded. What the fuck!? He wants me to drop all my gear. Which i'd earned legit by playing the game. Watch him scoop it up, and when he exits....what!? I'm supposed to stand at the start of NG+ 1-1 and wait for an invasion, with my cock in my hand? But thats what the EU server was like from day one!

 

There's a Pantheon in Demon's, which is like an online leaderboard. First week of that game's release i was #3 on the EU board, and the two players above me were 'dupers', with SL scores not possible unless you stand there for hours dropping the max consumable souls for your dickhead mate, who quits via PSN dashboard, then rejoins 5 mins later. Sad cunts!!

 

Anyway, i'll shut up. I'm not gonna pretend i'm not tempted to get a PS5 just for this game, but i'll see if its a launch game or not before deciding. 

 

I'm more curious to see if they've kept World Tendancy. Because that is a fantastic mechanic, inherent to this game only, that makes it definitely worth re-visiting. 

 

Guess we'll see....:blah:

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20 minutes ago, squirtle said:

Really!? Aside from the Flamelurker, I thought it was relatively easy. Come and chat about it in the other thread. I'd love to hear your thoughts.

It was the first one I played. Just mesmerised by the mysterious impenetrable systems and its complete self-confidence and refusal to roll out the red carpet. I fat rolled for about ten hours. Upgraded Luck. Killed NPCs in the Nexus. Skipped all item descriptions. I didn't kill Phalanx for about fifteen hours. No joke. Any ground gained felt like I was moving further into something I didn't understand but couldn't turn away from. 

 

It was a total game changer for me. I'd been out of gaming for a while until the Wii and DS brought me back in. I was full Nintendo. Mario Galaxy and Twilight Princess were my favourite games. I picked up a PS3 on a whim and small windfall, and played Far Cry 3, Skyrim and Demon's Souls. Utterly blown away by all three, but Demon's was really special. It was like Zelda but far deeper, more alluring and completely obtuse.

 

I was totally shit at it and ultimately put it aside for more Skyrim and never went back until I'd completed Dark Souls 2 (played DS1 after both!). I'll never get that feeling from another Souls game, though. 

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if I own a 'souls game, it's been entirely accidental. I've tried it, didn't like it. Selecting it for a remake/launch title, seems incredibly niche OR incredibly shrewd.

 

#marmite

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2 hours ago, Uzi said:

UMBASA

3-2. Walk backwards from the Archstone. Spiral stair on the right. Drop your sign there. 

 

*This post was brought to you circa 2009 and page 20 of this thread*

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3 hours ago, Triple A said:

It’s a launch game, confirmed by Sony :bye:

Correction: confirmed by Jason Schreier after Sony completely forgot to mention anything about launch titles in their console launch hype stream. But yes, either way: confirmed :)

 

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8 minutes ago, Mr. Gerbik said:

Correction: confirmed by Jason Schreier after Sony completely forgot to mention anything about launch titles in their console launch hype stream. But yes, either way: confirmed :)

 

Correction: confirmed by Dorito Pope after Sony completely forgot to mention anything about launch titles. </pedant>

 

 

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Speaking of corrections, are we going to stop misleading people with the thread title? Whilst theoretically the game could come to PC – as in there's nothing stopping Sony from doing so, if they wanted – there's no actual indication it's happening.

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15 hours ago, squirtle said:

An original game needs more pre production and work in the design area before hitting production and then needs constantly checking to make sure it's still good and enjoyable and it all works and you can still hit deadline and budget and everything. Not all those things apply to just remastering something as you already have the design in front of you. I'm not disputing the level of work, but if all you are doing is slavishly copying something and slapping a layer of nicer paint on it, I'm not sure it deserves to be the same price as something that did not have that benefit and was hand crafted from scratch.

I'd be absolutely stunned if this remake took much less time, and certainly any less effort or money, than the original. Which I remember being an obscure and not particularly high-selling oddball that no one expected to make any money.

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5 minutes ago, Spacehost said:

I'd be absolutely stunned if this remake took much less time, and certainly any less effort or money, than the original. Which I remember being an obscure and not particularly high-selling oddball that no one expected to make any money.

Did original games cost as much to make then as they do now? I never said it didn't cost as much as the original to make. I said that in comparison to a new game made now to the same level, I'd imagine this did not cost as much to make. I don't really see the relevance to the cost of the original game made 11 years ago.

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