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Super Mario 3D All-Stars - patch adds invert options and GC pad support in Sunshine


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I'm 30 shines into Sunshine now - I remember at the time thinking it wasn't as good as I was hoping, but it was still a great game. I imagine that had much to do with the drought of GameCube games at that time though, because playing it now, it was clearly rushed out to plug the gap. The controls in general feel like they need tweaking a bit as it feels pretty loose, but I've just done the third shine on Noki Bay, where you get shrunk down and shoved in a bottle, using FLUDD like a jet pack - the controls there are fucking horrific, it reminded me of some of the shite we'd play on PS1 before they figured out how to use 3D spaces properly.

 

And yet I'm still enjoying it. It lacks the polish you'd normally associate with Nintendo, but when it's good, it's still very good.

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Sunshine is fucking tragic.

 

The pachinko machine thing is a disaster. It doesn't even let you wall jump into the game area because as soon as you reach the top of the chute an invisible force propels Mario idiotically across the screen and you can't even hold left to fight it. The void level where the idiot villagers throw you to platforms was never playtested by a human. I am convinced the designer drunkenly dragged some 3D objects into the space and just shipped the fucking thing right there and then. Putting a 1-Up at the beginning of your level because you know how shit it is should be a red flag to any person with a molecule of brain power. Other highlights: I like how on the fairground level there are enemies which spawn five coins when defeated, but because the coins disappear so quickly, it's literally impossible to grab all five coins. Like, it's actually not even a thing you can do. Making people collect 100 coins when it's possible there aren't 100 coins on the star you've selected is excellent; great work. I also managed to soft lock myself in the hotel because I was exploring with the Yoshi I was riding and fell back into the ground floor room where you have to leave via the door. So you can't leave with Yoshi. So now you're stuck in the level and can't complete the star. And you can't even leave the hotel.

 

Somehow, despite all this, I'm having fun, but anyone who rates Sunshine above Mario 64 is a certified moron.

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I started that level where you jump onto a sand bird and he flys around the stage before eventually twisting 90 degrees to throw you off. 
 

It feels like something Nintendo would do, inventively throw something like a sand bird level in just for fun.
 

But it’s not fun. The bird twists on its side half way though but it’s not clear when playing what is happening as the stage design is confusing and the camera is awful. It’s also not clear where the bird is going or why, it’s not clear what’s happening with random little clouds dotted about the place with coins on, and it’s not clear how to get through the level without trying it a number of times and dying. And fludd the prick says something at the start like watch your feet or something like that. Thanks!

 

Given the sparsity of lives in Sunshine it just feels rushed and a bit crap and not something that should’ve ever made it into the final game. 
 

I’m starting to recollect exactly why I never bothered finishing the game back in the day. 

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32 minutes ago, David Heath said:

The pachinko machine thing is a disaster. It doesn't even let you wall jump into the game area

 

Eh? That's how I did it.

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3 hours ago, the_debaser said:

I started that level where you jump onto a sand bird and he flys around the stage before eventually twisting 90 degrees to throw you off. 
 

It feels like something Nintendo would do, inventively throw something like a sand bird level in just for fun.
 

But it’s not fun. The bird twists on its side half way though but it’s not clear when playing what is happening as the stage design is confusing and the camera is awful. It’s also not clear where the bird is going or why, it’s not clear what’s happening with random little clouds dotted about the place with coins on, and it’s not clear how to get through the level without trying it a number of times and dying. And fludd the prick says something at the start like watch your feet or something like that. Thanks!

 

Given the sparsity of lives in Sunshine it just feels rushed and a bit crap and not something that should’ve ever made it into the final game. 
 

I’m starting to recollect exactly why I never bothered finishing the game back in the day. 

 

How is the camera awful? You have full control over it on this level, and you'd be hard pressed to get it stuck behind anything considering the level is just a large open space with a single tower in it. It's obvious if you pay attention that the bird is twisting on its side. It's not as if it instantly twists and you have no chance to react, it's a gradual movement. Having to move on to the adjacent side of a surface as it rotates isn't even a new concept at this point - it's introduced in the earlier void levels that feature rotating blocks.

 

Let's say all that escapes you and you die. What happens? You restart the void level straight away and it's all of 30 seconds to get back to that bit with your newfound knowledge and maybe 2 minutes in all to complete it. What's the problem?

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36 minutes ago, the_debaser said:

The problem is it is shit. 

I agree with this - in addition to all that's been said, for some reason Mario scoots backwards for no reason at all, which means you have to correct that at the same time as stepping onto the side of a block, and there are blue coins on the level, which require attention, and are a bit of a nightmare to spot with the camera being as bad as it is.

 

The level is a cool idea, but ultimately it's not fun, like most of the other gimmicks in this game. It clearly wasn't tested properly before release.

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I was going in backwards order with these. I got the first 120 stars in Galaxy so have parked that. Start on Sunshine which I'd never played and I'm finding it finicky and somewhat hard to follow. For instance I have some blue coins and I'm told to go to the boathouse yet I've no idea where that is. I'm currently fighting a flying piranha plant but it flies in the sky and I can't see where it is. It's a shame because sometimes I like the open nature of it but at other times I think I'll never get close to completing it. I have about 11 shines and I'm struggling.

So I've switched to 64 which I'm having a much better time with. It doesn't feel as if I'm wasting quite a much time just looking around a level trying to find the bit I've got to do.

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On 07/10/2020 at 17:36, Keiths_Dad said:

I'm 30 shines into Sunshine now - I remember at the time thinking it wasn't as good as I was hoping, but it was still a great game. I imagine that had much to do with the drought of GameCube games at that time though, because playing it now, it was clearly rushed out to plug the gap. The controls in general feel like they need tweaking a bit as it feels pretty loose, but I've just done the third shine on Noki Bay, where you get shrunk down and shoved in a bottle, using FLUDD like a jet pack - the controls there are fucking horrific, it reminded me of some of the shite we'd play on PS1 before they figured out how to use 3D spaces properly.

 

And yet I'm still enjoying it. It lacks the polish you'd normally associate with Nintendo, but when it's good, it's still very good.

 

yeah - pretty much.  I loved it at the time, but can see its flaws this time... but when it's good, it's awesome.  I still absolutely love those void levels.

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I never thought Sunshine was great even at the time but when you think that we've had Galaxy, Galaxy 2, 3D World and Odyssey since then, it can't help but come off even worse by comparison. It's one of those games where you could swear the developers hate the player and want to make things as awkward and inconvenient for them as possible. 

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Sunshine is twitchy like a Ferrari. World class control, handling, and extreme speed is not for everyone, I get that. Which is why, for the vast majority, a Corolla or Galaxy is preferable.

 

That said, playing Sunshine with a joycon is like playing Ferrari F355 Challenge with a keyboard.  

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7 hours ago, Majora said:

I never thought Sunshine was great even at the time but when you think that we've had Galaxy, Galaxy 2, 3D World and Odyssey since then, it can't help but come off even worse by comparison. It's one of those games where you could swear the developers hate the player and want to make things as awkward and inconvenient for them as possible. 

One of the things I've always found quite telling is that development of mainline Mario titles were given to EAD Tokyo after Sunshine. Even though that was a relative young studio at the time who's credits only ran as far as Donkey Jong Jungle Beat. Seems even the top brass in Kyoto were like "what is this shit!?" with Sunshine.

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1 hour ago, HarMGM said:

One of the things I've always found quite telling is that development of mainline Mario titles were given to EAD Tokyo after Sunshine. Even though that was a relative young studio at the time who's credits only ran as far as Donkey Jong Jungle Beat. Seems even the top brass in Kyoto were like "what is this shit!?" with Sunshine.

But also Donkey Kong Jungle Beat was legit awesome.

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As much as I am a defender of Sunshine, I'd like to point out that you didn't softlock yourself in the hotel, @David Heath. Just get off Yoshi and leave, and after a while when his juice tank runs out, he'll vanish and a new egg will turn up in the lobby. It ain't ideal that's for sure, but there's no way you can get trapped. I even think if you time the Spin Jump correctly with Yoshi you can make it back up the ceiling panel.

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4 minutes ago, Cheyenne said:

As much as I am a defender of Sunshine, I'd like to point out that you didn't softlock yourself in the hotel, @David Heath. Just get off Yoshi and leave, and after a while when his juice tank runs out, he'll vanish and a new egg will turn up in the lobby. It ain't ideal that's for sure, but there's no way you can get trapped. I even think if you time the Spin Jump correctly with Yoshi you can make it back up the ceiling panel.


Or just jump into the water.

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I thought I had trapped myself in the Pinna Park level of Sunshine when I was bringing the Yoshi Egg some fruit & decided to swim straight through the swinging boat pool instead of walking around.  It turned out I couldn’t grab hold of the edge of the pool or use FLUDD to hover because I was holding the fruit, & I couldn’t let go of it while swimming either so it seemed like I was trapped in the pool.  Fortunately, I found I could jump out of the water & then throw the fruit away in mid jump.

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I’m quite enjoying sunshine apart from the ones where he nicks my backpack I find those levels to be a bit of a grind so 2 per world I’d too much for me

 

still a great game but it’s no mario 64 masterpiece 

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Galaxy completed (well, 65 stars and boss done). Final level and boss were disappointingly simple - completed first time without even getting hit. I know there are harder challenges but Sunshine hit those before the end and so completing it seemed more satisfying.

 

Much prefer the handling of Mario in Sunshine too, but wish he had the long jump and backflip from 64/Galaxy.

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20 hours ago, Giles said:

Sunshine is twitchy like a Ferrari. World class control, handling, and extreme speed is not for everyone, I get that. Which is why, for the vast majority, a Corolla or Galaxy is preferable.

 

That said, playing Sunshine with a joycon is like playing Ferrari F355 Challenge with a keyboard.  

 

The lack of a long jump is an absolute pain, and sets Sunshine as the odd one out in every 3d Mario. Nor is fiddling about trying to line stuff up with FLUDD - how most players will experience Sunshine, really all that fast. 

 

Odyssey has absolutely unparalleled handling and an open world, and managed to avoid being an absolute bollocks. I really don't get the Sunshine love. It was filled with jank then, and it's filled with jank now. 

 

Galaxy and its sequel are so much better it hurts, albeit that they are doing something different. But the existence of Odyessy really shows up Sunshine's flaws. 

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  • Mr. Gerbik changed the title to Super Mario 3D All-Stars - patch adds invert options and GC pad support in Sunshine

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