The Last of Us: The Show!

[Chadruharazzeb]

I find it hard to believe that 

Spoiler

there were no successful invasions of the town by raiders in 20 years 

 

but it was a sweet, funny and fascinating piece of work. 

[Majora]

43 minutes ago, fragglerock said:

I have never played the game but am enjoying the show.

Ep3 was pretty amazing... and tbh I wish they had shown two great bears go at it hammer and tongs just to wind up the snowflake homophones!

 

I do think this is quite interesting critique tho

 

https://www.primetimer.com/features/the-last-of-us-episode-3-queer-love-story-condescending

 

 

 

I think it's completely wrong and missed the point of Bill in both the game and in the episode entirely.

 

Spoiler

First of all, the critique seems to think that Bill's narrative in the game acts as a warning to Ellie and that they share parallels because they are both queer characters who end up carelessly losing their loves. 

 

I think this is downright revisionism. Claiming Druckman deliberately set up this minor off-screen romance in the first game to make a point about Ellie in a sequel 7 years later that I doubt had even been sketched out in Druckman's head yet strikes me as nonsensical. 

 

Thus the core of his argument is that by doing away with Bill's failed relationship in the show, his relationship was pointless narratively because it no longer has a parallel with Ellie's later story and only exists for saccharine crowd pleasing purposes. This fundamentally misses the point of Bill's narrative in both the game and show so badly that I can't believe this guy apparently has a job writing these critical thinkpieces. 

 

Now I think it's important not to overinflate Bill's importance in the game too much. Primarily his role is to give Joel and Ellie a battery. But thematically, there is an warning element of not pushing away important people in your life and ending up bitter and alone. The problem is that the author has made a wild leap thinking this is some enormously prescient and forward thinking piece of writing relating to Ellie in Part 2 when it simply relates to Joel right there and then.

 

The show makes the exact same point but from a different angle. If the game is a warning to Joel to NOT end up like Bill then the show is a message to Joel to BE LIKE Bill. The end point is the same - to let others in. But the journey there via the exact same character is different.

 

This is quite literally spelled out in the letter Bill leaves for Joel. In fact, I honestly thought the letter was a bit heavy handed at bonking the audience over the head with the point of the episode. But then you read a critical piece from someone who completely missed the point of the episode and makes lofty claims about how unimportant Bill's relationship was was compared to the game despite the letter explaining everything just in case you weren't paying attention to the preceding events.

 

Sorry but that piece made me want to despair at how badly the author misunderstood literally everything.

 

 

[Stig]

Not much more I can add that others already haven't said. What a brilliant episode.

[NecroMorrius]

@Majora 

game spoiler 

Spoiler

Ellie wasn’t queer until they wrote the DLC.

Ashley Johnson has said as much in an interview. 

 

Anyway, the episode was great. Nick Offerman is an incredible screen presence. I wished it was longer. The weaponised Max Richter is a bit overdone and needless considering there are so many great tracks on TLOU1&2 soundtracks. 

[El Geet]

3 minutes ago, Moz said:

@Majora Ellie wasn’t queer until they wrote the DLC. Ashley Johnson has said as much in an interview. 
 

Anyway, the episode was great. Nick Offerman is an incredible screen presence. I wished it was longer. The weaponised Max Richter is a bit overdone and needless considering there are so many great tracks on TLOU1&2 soundtracks. 

Agree on Nick Offerman. I also loved Frank. Can’t remember the actor’s name but he was also the best thing about The White Lotus. 

[NecroMorrius]

Murray Bartlett. Great actor. But Offerman stole the show for me.

 

Incidentally I just spoilered a game spoiler that you’ve quoted but you replied while I was editing, can you requote? Thanks 

[Rorschach]

Thought this made a lot of really smart changes, things that before watching I would've thought were sacred cows and must be included, just weren't. It focused on the core of the story that needed telling, and everything that was in the game that would've distracted from that was cut out.

 

Spoiler

I think my favourite part of the episode was their courtship, the way Frank is just not even pretending that Bill's situation isn't incredible and Bill also pretending (to himself as much as anything) that he's not putting on a show. Interspersed with occasional reminders that he's still not completely dismissed the idea of shooting him.

 

I can see "not on the strawberries" becoming a catchphrase in some households.

 

I haven't cried or even got misty eyed at anything in this series yet, mind. I only have the end of His Dark Materials as recent evidence that I am not some unfeeling monster.

 

59 minutes ago, Chadruharazzeb said:

I find it hard to believe that 

  Hide contents

there were no successful invasions of the town by raiders in 20 years 

 

but it was a sweet, funny and fascinating piece of work.

 

Spoiler

From both the game and the show, I got the impresison that after a while Bill's town was something a lot of people would've known about, but they would've also known it was well defended. I guess it wasn't shown as quite as much of a fortress in the show (no infected roaming around as a buffer of sorts to intruders) but I could buy it. I also imagine trading relationships helped keep a lot of people off their backs too.

 

re: The Nature of Daylight... it's overused (the first google result for the song is a blogpost asking for it to stop being used in films). Yes it's a beautiful song, but come on other music exists! At least if you're going to use it, don't make obvious edits... it's not some obscure track where people won't notice. Took me out of things a little bit.

[jonamok]

Lovely stuff. Knew it was going to be good, and it didn’t disappoint. The final meal scene was incredible. Offerman needs an award for that.

 

Shame they had to ruin it with Mando and Grogu. 😉

[Hanzo the Razor]

Well that would have brought a tear to a glass eye.

 

Spoiler

The only thing that took me out of it a bit was that old Bill kept reminding me of "Coughing" Bob Fleming from The Fast Show.

 

The best episode yet.

[choddo]

I think Juan might be the only person in the known universe who thought Bill’s completely different personality flaws might be a foreshadowing of Ellie’s.

 

I can’t even remember that bit in the game, it’s been so long since I played it but I remember Ellie’s descent into vengeance fuelled self-destructive obsession all too well.

 

Liked the episode a lot. Wonderful change of pace.

[BossSaru]

That was great. So much to unpack and it really benefited from the deviation from the source material.

 

Spoiler

Bill's vulnerability was a great change in narrative focus. He really felt like someone who used the collapse to justify distancing himself from the world. His quiet awkwardness in his own home with his new guest, minutes after being shown as an alpha-male infected-killing hardman, and later when he broke down in tears tasting the strawberries, were both *chef's kiss*

 

Best dialogue:

 

Frank, mocking Bill: "Oh yeah, 9-11 was an inside job! The Government are all Nazis!"

Bill: "The Government are all Nazis!"

Frank: "Well, yeah, now they are!"

 

Also really pleased that they did not shy away from showing their physical love. They lived their best life in the middle of a collapse and the writers wanted us to know it.

 

[Monkeyboy]

I recently finished the first season of The White Lotus, so was not expecting that cross over. Overall, great episode, and was surprised by but ultimately happy with the deviation from the game. Worked really well.

[LeighCb]

Frank's face when Bill gives him a lovely dinner.

[sofasurfer]

3 hours ago, LeighCb said:

Frank's face when Bill gives him a lovely dinner.

Even more so that it was the same meal and wine selection he served him when they first met. 

[SpagMasterSwift]

I like the way this episode coloured Joel's character without him hardly in it.

 

Spoiler

Seeing him dealing drugs at the start of the show makes a lot more sense now. Also, when he turns up for the lunch date with Tess, he seems in much better shape than I was expecting at that period of time, but that just makes his relationship with Tess feel more real and her loss and now the loss of two friends he's been protecting even more powerful. 

 

Ellie on the other hand is acting like a crazy psycho so interested to see where they are going with that.

 

[Fry Crayola]

I enjoyed Ellie's delight at spotting a 

 

Spoiler

Mortal Kombat II cabinet. And now I wonder if the flashback episode is going to have Riley describing a bout in gloriously accurate detail. 

 

[Dirty Harry Potter]

I didn't like that episode much at all.

 

Spoiler

I FUCKING LOVED IT!!! 🥰 So heartbreakingly bitter sweet.

 

This show is proving some of the most magnificent TV I have seen in along time.

 

[Minion]

oof great TV, HBO does it again. 

[Spleen]

That was probably the best episode that I have ever seen, of anything. 

That sounds like hyperbole but I honestly believe it. 

[Capwn]

I do wonder how people who have no interest in the game react to that episode. If you've played the game, you kind of get why they did it but if not isn't it a bit jarring to

 

Spoiler

suddenly focus 90% of an episode on 2 new characters who end up dying by the end? I don't know if that's ever been done in a tv show, i.e introduce new character that hasn't been referenced at all and spend the episode on them and then kill them. 

 

[Eighthours]

37 minutes ago, Spleen said:

That was probably the best episode that I have ever seen, of anything. 

That sounds like hyperbole but I honestly believe it. 

It’s interesting, because if this had been a standalone 75 minute film, it would in no way have got this ‘best thing ever’ reaction. While the episode is a beautiful piece of work that I loved very much, the reaction comes from how its format was so unexpected, coming as it did 3 episodes into a TV series based on a post-apocalyptic videogame! It makes it seem like anything is possible in this show.

 

It reminded me a bit in terms of concept of that first Mythic Quest off-format episode (‘A Dark Quiet Death’), actually. Two beautiful stories, BUT this one has better ties to the show it‘s part of. 

Edited January 31 by Eighthours

[Popo]

A particularly nice touch that only really dawned on me this morning:

 

Spoiler

The final moment where the camera pans backwards through the bedroom window, settling on an iconic image for anyone who has played the game:

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Spleen]

11 minutes ago, Eighthours said:

It’s interesting, because if this had been a standalone 75 minute film, it would in no way have got this ‘best thing ever’ reaction. While the episode is a beautiful piece of work that I loved very much, the reaction comes from how its format was so unexpected, coming as it did 3 episodes into a TV series based on a post-apocalyptic videogame! It makes it seem like anything is possible in this show.

 

It reminded me a bit in terms of concept of that first Mythic Quest off-format episode (‘A Dark Quiet Death’), actually. Two beautiful stories, BUT this one has better ties to the show it‘s part of. 

 

Yeah, I was just completely taken off guard in what is essentially a zombie series.

[Eighthours]

27 minutes ago, Spleen said:

 

Yeah, I was just completely taken off guard in what is essentially a zombie series.

Totally!

[Timmo]

As someone who can barely remember the game at all, I'm enjoying this so much. God bless my rotting, damaged brain.

[Eighthours]

I wonder if lead actors in a TV show ever feel pissed off when an off-format episode that barely features them is considered 'the best'?

[LaveDisco]

5 minutes ago, Eighthours said:

I wonder if lead actors in a TV show ever feel pissed off when an off-format episode that barely features them is considered 'the best'?

Pedro getting payback for being the best* episode of House of Fett. 

 

*Relative statement 

[Popo]

37 minutes ago, Timmo said:

As someone who can barely remember the game at all, I'm enjoying this so much. God bless my rotting, damaged brain.

 

I'm the same. I remember how it started and how it ended, but not much in between. 

 

Spoiler

I think there was a college campus, a hospital - doesn't Tommy live on a dam or something like that? The section where you play as Ellie, fighting to save Joel in the harsh, snowy winter is powerfully memorable, mind you. 

 

This show is doing exactly what it's supposed to I suppose - I'm hyped for the PS5 remake in a way I wasn't for the announcement and launch. I'll 100% buy it once I'm done with the show, it's a brilliant, affecting story.

 

My only worry is the show is going to outdo it in every way. 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, Capwn said:

I do wonder how people who have no interest in the game react to that episode. If you've played the game, you kind of get why they did it but if not isn't it a bit jarring to

 

  Hide contents

suddenly focus 90% of an episode on 2 new characters who end up dying by the end? I don't know if that's ever been done in a tv show, i.e introduce new character that hasn't been referenced at all and spend the episode on them and then kill them. 

 

It's definitely happened before.

 

Spoiler

The one with Ian McShane in Game of Thrones. I think it's been done in Walking Dead. There was a TNG episode focused on some low ranked crew where one dies. There's probably more.

 

[makkuwata]

18 hours ago, LaveDisco said:

Pedro getting payback for being the best* episode of House of Fett. 

 

*Relative statement 

I’m surprised they didn’t let him milk reading the end of the letter.

Spoiler

On closer inspection Bill recommends ‘their’ wine if he ever decides to propose.

Opening aside, I don’t recall him ever having a good cry in the game, but they have said they’re softening him for the show. We’ve yet to see evidence of that.