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Digital foundry has spoilt the art of playing games (for me)

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8 minutes ago, HarryBizzle said:
  • My computer runs this at max settings and 60fps, so now I'm going to fart around with supersampling.

See above. Also, rarely have I needed to or want to fart about. My sense is that the PC gaming space has stabilised a lot in this regard over the years making such issues a bit overstated, as more devs and pubs have committed to compatibility, etc.

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Just now, Boozy The Clown said:

It hasn't spoiled gaming for me but it's certainly spoiled the art of gaming discussion. 

Bye then.

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3 hours ago, Rex Grossman said:

I find DF Retro very enjoyable but their normal stuff – although clearly well researched and produced – has nothing to do with enjoying games and seems mostly to appeal to those people who care more about frame rates etc than gameplay.

 

I watch DF Retro a lot more than their usual videos too. One of the reasons I like DF Retro is that modern graphical rendering techniques and console hardware have largely become standardised. So DF Retro gives them a good chance to talk about all the things that aren't used any more, like voxel rendering and consoles with non-x86 CPUs.

 

Also, the version differences that DF Retro shows are often a lot more apparent than those between modern releases. A DF analysis of a new game might talk about a game's differences between PC, Xbox One, One X, PS4, PS4 Pro, Switch docked, and Switch portable - as others have said, often the differences are only visible when they pause and zoom in.

 

Whereas DF Retro might show examples of how a game changed between its original ’90s PC release, its PS1 console port, its Xbox 360 remake, that Xbox 360 version played on a One X through BC, and its brand new Switch version - which are likely to be significant differences in features as well as graphics. The Doom retrospective is a good example of that:

 

 

The other advantage of DF Retro is that it's more likely that they'll cover a game that I've already played!

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But we’re discussing someone who is clearly sensitive to these issues, in many more ways than console PC is the platform that can forever be upgraded to make it “better”.

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Doom is a good example of DF being an influence for good. I was initially arsey about their Doom port review but all they were saying is that it could and should be better, and the recent patch fixes most if not all of the issues raised, and I’m certain that’s in part due to their analysis causing the developer to revisit it. 

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Interpret it as you will. The irony of your post I responded to, warranted no more of a response imv.

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I think for the most part, DF shines a light on the hard work of developers. They go into excruiating detail of course, but when you think of how much time and effort is involved getting a game out of the door, it's difficult for me to say it's overkill. When they do criticise it's usually pretty constructive and coming from a well-informed place.

 

If you're playing on base consoles, you can always be safe in the knowledge that your version of the game has most likely had the most attention paid to it. That is where the majority of people are playing and where the majority of the money is to be made.

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2 hours ago, HarryBizzle said:

I don't think I've ever managed to sit through a full piece of John Linneman's work.


Harsh. His DF Retro stuff is rare S tier shit as far as YouTube games content goes. Pick a favourite series or genre from back in the day and go see if Legendary Linneman has covered it. Guaranteed greatness.

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14 minutes ago, Calashnikov said:


Harsh. His DF Retro stuff is rare S tier shit as far as YouTube games content goes. Pick a favourite series or genre from back in the day and go see if Legendary Linneman has covered it. Guaranteed greatness.


My first console was the PlayStation 1 and I didn’t really, really get into gaming until the PS2 era, so a lot of that stuff doesn’t really interest me. I have seen a lot of people speak quite highly of it, though. 
 

 

@Triple A How you’ve managed to make 4000+ posts on this forum but can’t reply to my post without making about 6 different posts is beyond me. 
 

I already said all of the things in my post can be advantages, too. 

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1 hour ago, HarryBizzle said:

PC gaming opens the door to worries about:

 

  • My AMD card is more powerful than that Nvidia one but the drivers are garbage/the devs have a marketing deal with AMD or Nvidia so the game is wonderfully optimised for one of them and garbage on the other.
  • My particular hardware setup seems to cause this game to crash.
  • The PC version is poorly optimised, but maybe if I spend time looking on the internet and altering config files, it'll run better.
  • I've got a stable 60fps but I think some of my PC's power is being wasted, let me go back and forth on how to get the best mix of settings and performance for my machine.
  • My computer runs this at max settings and 60fps, so now I'm going to fart around with supersampling.

 

These are all double edged swords, obviously. You don't get the advantage of any of these on consoles, but for me, I often spent far too long fiddling with games on my PC.

This is my experience of pc gaming when I was into it between 94-99 and again between 2002-2006 . I definitely spent almost as long fannying about with auto exec.bat and config.sys , and later drivers and .ini files as I did playing games . And then when you were happy there would be some article that told you you were doing it wrong .. 

Course things have definitely moved on and I’m sure it’s much better now , but I just can’t be arsed . Download game , play game . Job done . 

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4 hours ago, Stanley said:

Then stress every six months when a new graphics card comes out. 

 

4 hours ago, Triple A said:

No, stop being hyperbolic. I upgrade my card approx every three years and I haven't upgraded my CPU in 5. Works very well for me.

 

4 hours ago, MattyP said:

I'm still on a GTX 970 GPU for example but does everything I need.... 4K desktop and plays games well enough for what I need. :)

 

For what it's worth, from someone with literally every machine.

 

My CPU is an i7-950 from 2010.  My Graphics card is also a GTX 970 which is from 2014.

 

I play most VR just fine, I play everything there is in 1080P without even thinking about it.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Dudley said:

 

 

 

For what it's worth, from someone with literally every machine.

 

My CPU is an i7-950 from 2010.  My Graphics card is also a GTX 970 which is from 2014.

 

I play most VR just fine, I play everything there is in 1080P without even thinking about it.

 

 

I’m guessing DF doesn’t ruin your enjoyment of games either. 

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I do like some of DFs features like the excellent history of water effects and their retro discussions are a fun observation of the often radical hardware differences in the 90s and how systems like the sega Saturn worked with its unorthodox configuration.

 

As far as their modern content goes I don’t really watch it. It’s more like an index than something you’d follow. When I wanted bloodstained I went to them to help make my mind up on whether I wanted to take a risk on the switch version. I enjoyed the switch version very much but their video helped keep my expectations grounded on the way in which I’m glad for as I may have been very disappointed otherwise.

 

I’ve become more and less picky on performance depending on game now but that’s less down to DF and more down to when I was a games collector and learned about the massive difference maker that was 50/60hz.

 

For a few years after that I was very big on frame rate and input lag but I’m starting to ease off a bit as ignorance is sometimes truly bliss. Don’t get me wrong I really appreciate it when a studio goes above and beyond (such as M2 and their classic port) but I think sometimes I can get along fine with more “workmanlike” efforts (is having 5F input lag really going to kill my enjoyment of the Psikyo collections on switch?).

 

I think DF is a good thing overall, especially if your interest is the media rather than the games themselves.

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"This gen, that flipped, but the difference wasn't anywhere as pronounced."

 

The performance delta between the base Xbox One and PS4 is absolutely larger than between the Xbox 360 and PS3. Base Xbone games don't perform worse because devs are struggling to get to grips with the hardware (which was the case with PS3), it's because it's a lower spec machine. Soulcalibur VI runs at 720p(!) on the Xbox One, it's hardly a subtle difference in some cases.

 

I like Digital Foundry. If I'm planning to spend a lot of time with a game I want to be able to get a quick appraisal of if the version I want runs OK, whether patches have improved things, etc. I think people forget how utterly dire tech analysis was before they raised the standard. So many reviews/previews would play games in ideal conditions at the publishers' invitation and take their word for it that all versions were identical.

 

Twenty minutes of looking at tiny differences in every new release isn't of much interest to me, but is as much an indictment of how YouTube forces creators to use their platform as anything.

 

I find the whole "Graphics mean so little to me I play all my games on a 14 inch CRT and poke myself in the eye before I start" performative authenticity routine a bit tedious, a bit 'lad culture', like Richard Hammond calling ice cream gay, you know?

 

I'm mostly in favour of the mid-gen updates. Having a fixed platform hang around for 7+ years in past generations really held things back toward the end. Although I do think that uptake of the next gen machines releasing this Christmas may be slow as a result of people still happy with their current machines.

 

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2 hours ago, Calashnikov said:


Harsh. His DF Retro stuff is rare S tier shit as far as YouTube games content goes. Pick a favourite series or genre from back in the day and go see if Legendary Linneman has covered it. Guaranteed greatness.

Amen to this. There are games/platforms I thought I knew inside out that his videos have shown me in a completely new light.

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6 minutes ago, MK-1601 said:

I find the whole "Graphics mean so little to me I play all my games on a 14 inch CRT and poke myself in the eye before I start" performative authenticity routine a bit tedious, a bit 'lad culture', like Richard Hammond calling ice cream gay, you know?

 

No one has said or even inferred anything like that in this thread.

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3 hours ago, Stanley said:

I’m guessing DF doesn’t ruin your enjoyment of games either. 

 

Nah, like I say I buy one x all things being equal or PS4 Pro if there's a cheapy and I tend to buy PC only for exclusives and steam sales.

 

If a game really does fuck up on one console we'll hear about it anyway but I actually can't think of a single instance this gen of a game that was unbalanced across both (rather than shit on both)

 

2 hours ago, MK-1601 said:

I find the whole "Graphics mean so little to me I play all my games on a 14 inch CRT and poke myself in the eye before I start" performative authenticity routine a bit tedious, a bit 'lad culture', like Richard Hammond calling ice cream gay, you know?

 

Oh absolutely and I've certainly not saying that having admitted to buying both a pro and a 1x...  but the difference after that point even on a 65" 4k Samsung I sit probably slightly too close to has never been enough to matter.  And to ruin it entirely what I'm currently playing is Saints Row 3 and I doubt that's above 720P.

 

That said Outer Worlds on a 1x was stunning at times.

 

For most though, especially the very decent proportion using a 1080p screen, you're probably best off just buying whatever you can get cheapest or in the CEX you're currently in and just not worrying it.

 

Whereas that certainly didn't used to be the case, Chase HQ is an utter mess on a C64 but wonderful even on the humble Spectrum for instance.  Aladdin of course is literally 3 different games on Mega Drive, Master System and SNES.  That just doesn't happen now.

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I enjoy the retro stuff and the Switch videos, it's always interesting to see the compromises made to get the game on the hardware. 

 

PS and Xbox videos are deathly dull though, and you can basically write the outcomes before they start. 

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6 hours ago, Triple A said:

Hasn't occurred in my experience.


Has happened to me. I remember a game-breaking bug in Tomb Raider Underworld (Underground? Underwear?) that was specific to the graphics card in my laptop at the time, one that was well known because it affected loads of other people. The developers response was that they wouldn’t patch it because the number of people running that card wasn’t significant enough to justify the effort. 
 

£40 wasted, it left a pretty sour taste. I know that’ll never happen on Xbox or PlayStation because a bug for one is a bug for all. 

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5 minutes ago, Popo said:


Has happened to me. I remember a game-breaking bug in Tomb Raider Underworld (Underground? Underwear?) that was specific to the graphics card in my laptop at the time, one that was well known because it affected loads of other people. The developers response was that they wouldn’t patch it because the number of people running that card wasn’t significant enough to justify the effort. 
 

£40 wasted, it left a pretty sour taste. I know that’ll never happen on Xbox or PlayStation because a bug for one is a bug for all. 

Laptop... a lesser species. ;)

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Just now, Thor said:

Laptop... a lesser species. ;)


Im sure things are more equal these days but that one had a design flaw in the hinge that would cause it to jam in the open position. The only way to get it to close again was snap the hinge!

 

We are talking 13, maybe 14 yeas ago. But in console terms that was the Wii, 360 and PS3 era. Windows 7 had been out for a few years. Well shady that you could buy a game that should have been compatible for your computer, find out it wasn’t for reasons beyond your control and be told nothing was going to be done about it. 

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18 hours ago, replicant said:

Unless down to affordability issues I see zero reason not to upgrade to the Pro and X.  Better IQ with improved performance for 3-4 years has been a blessing.  Especially if playing on a base XO.

 

I could easily afford to upgrade, but I didn't see the sense in spending at least a couple of hundred pounds after selling on the old hardware just so I could play better versions of games I could already play. I've always been of the mindset where I'll upgrade stuff when I have to. I have no doubt that playing on higher spec hardware on a 4K display would be a step up, but until there's an actual barrier, I'll get by.

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