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Is it time to ditch the consoles?

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18 hours ago, 5R7 said:

You can fix things when the dev hasn't bothered. Thats great! ...yes bethesda, we are looking at you!


this.  There’s mods for years old games that fix bugs, make improvements to graphics and gameplay.  You’re at the mercy of the developers to fix things on console.

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9 hours ago, deKay said:

Who uses *wordpad* to edit config files?!


Me? Because it’s the easiest way to do it?

 

Unless I’ve missed something.

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20 minutes ago, JoeK said:


Me? Because it’s the easiest way to do it?

 

Unless I’ve missed something.

 

Notepad, sure. Not wordpad. Wordpad is basically a word processor, not a text editor, and tends to break config files by saving them in rtf format or changing the type of line feed (Win vs UNIX) used without telling you.

 

It's like editing a Word document with Photoshop.

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12 hours ago, Strafe said:


I haven’t really expressed myself properly but this is a factor for me. I have had a gaming PC before (1998/99 I think) and it was a fussy hassle-filled experience for me once I’d clocked Half Life. I remember trying to run Kingpin (and others) and never getting anywhere without it dropping to sub 10 FPS and constantly crashing all the time. And it was a top of the range machine at the time.


Jesus christ thats the win98 days. PC gaming was horrible back then. The difference between then and now is so big you can’t really compare the two. As an illustration: PCs doesn’t boot in DOS anymore, and windows10 is super stable.

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56 minutes ago, deKay said:

 

Notepad, sure. Not wordpad. Wordpad is basically a word processor, not a text editor, and tends to break config files by saving them in rtf format or changing the type of line feed (Win vs UNIX) used without telling you.

 

It's like editing a Word document with Photoshop.

 

Ah! That makes sense :) 

 

With regards to tinkering - it's definitely something I like doing, but for sure these days usually a click of a button on something like nVidia Experience will sort out pretty everything for...well, pretty much everyone. PC gaming definitely doesn't need to be a hassle.

 

I just like making things a hassle for myself ;) 

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Speaking of PC gaming in ancient times, I remember back in the day a PC would start struggling to play new games after a couple of years.

My current pc has an overclocked gen 1 i7, which must be a decade old at this stage, but it hasn't given me any issues yet (granted I'm generally content to play at 1080p with settings maxed). I find that pretty amazing, imagine gaming on a pc/cpu from 1995 in 2005, I suspect a gfx card upgrade wouldn't have been enough.

 

Was the longevity of stuff like my i7 just a result of the junk tier cpus that are in the ps4 and xbox one? Are we likely to see a repeat of this in the next gen?

 

If I buy a pc in 2020, can I rest assured that the components will be able to run the big games of 2026 without a bunch of settings tweaking, low spec mods etc? With a console you have that guarantee.

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This topic reminds me of the people who say “Why would anyone buy a mini SNES or Mega Drive when you can create your own RetroPie device?”

 

More amazingly this ‘debate’ has moved onto “Why would anyone buy a mini SNES or Mega Drive when you can create your own MiSTer device?”

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10 minutes ago, partious said:

 

Was the longevity of stuff like my i7 just a result of the junk tier cpus that are in the ps4 and xbox one? Are we likely to see a repeat of this in the next gen?

 

 

Yes and yes. Consoles will always be a compromise on hardware. Price up a top of the range pC and compare it to a console. When your tip of the range gfx card costs more than an entire Xbox onex there’s no way you can get the same power or relatively same power on without compromising somewhere.

 

added in the components need to use less power so they generate less heat as you’re typically restricted to a small box under a tv with shit air flow.

 

so whilst they will be great when they launch and good stuff that maximizes the hardware will really shoe due to a fixed spec it’s not long before parts of the design begins to look long in the tooth.

 

 

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On 21/01/2020 at 07:59, Broker said:

More people for the bizarre pile of people who haven’t used a PC for 20 years but think they’ll work exactly the same. I assume they’re all holding off buying mobile telephones because they’re just so damn big. And forget about the difficulties of driver updates, I’m not buying a PC because waiting for time on the terminal to feed my punch cards in sounds really boring. Better walk to work now, I would’ve bought a car but that crank on the front you use to start the engine seems like a bit of a faff.

 

I read this a lot and it occasionally makes me consider PC gaming but, as @Uncle Mike said, there are still plenty of threads on this form for new releases that rapidly get filled up with people discussing settings and PC-specific technical issues.

 

The thing with me, and probably lots of other time-poor parents, is that my patience for technical difficulties is so low these days. Like, if something doesn't immediately work as it should I get het up. Any time at all spent trying to resolve something feels like too much. If the solution is more complicated than 'reboot it' then I get angry.

 

I ditched the PC in favour of a Mac for general computing over a decade ago for this reason, and that was before I had kids. I'm still not convinced that PC gaming is anywhere near as hassle-free as console gaming. With powerful new consoles on the horizon I can't see a compelling reason for me personally.

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I dunno, as a time and money poor parent the initial expense and effort of setting up my PC has been more than worth it. I can buy more games because they’re so cheap and I’ve not had any technical difficulties with any games I’ve bought so far, though I’m not buying triple A games at launch much at the moment. 
 

The big thing is the time it takes to get into a game. On console, I’m waiting for the slow PS4 (or the glacial Xbone) to load it’s crap OS, download and install small files over several hours, wait for updates and load for what must add up to hours. On my PC, the OS boots in seconds, software opens in seconds, I rarely see loading screens and updates are always done before I notice them and they never stop me playing. In a single player game I’m saving tonnes of time, but even in multiplayer I’m loading into lobbies way faster. I don’t need to keep subscriptions updated to try out online stuff. I’ve got a million easy options for voice and text chat if the game’s support is shit, and everyone generally has better sound hardware that they’re more likely to have turned on. 
 

That’s without even mentioning that only using my mid range GPU and a five year old processor bundle, and never tweaking any settings beyond using the GeForce optimiser everything looks infinitely better than console versions. If I’m playing shooters or strategy games I have the option of keyboard and mouse, but controller support is perfect for anything that works better that way.

 

I still use my console for playing things my girlfriend enjoys so we can easily sit together to play. And obviously there’s plenty of exclusives. But outside of initial prices and setup (which can be offset by game pricing and paying someone else to build it), I really don’t think any of the old criticisms about consoles being easier apply anymore. I used to favour consoles for many of the listed reasons, but since I got my new PC (which was for work and begrudgingly playing exclusive PC games with a rubbish spreadsheet controller and a million driver issues), it’s been incredible how easy it all is. 
 

I’d feel confident saying that if you bought a pre-built PC from Scan or somewhere that already had Windows on it, the experience of using it to play games would be faster, more convenient and easier than using a shitty console OS to do the same things, because Windows 10 does everything they do but faster and better.

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2 hours ago, Pob said:

 

I read this a lot and it occasionally makes me consider PC gaming but, as @Uncle Mike said, there are still plenty of threads on this form for new releases that rapidly get filled up with people discussing settings and PC-specific technical issues.

 

I'm not sure that's the case though really.  PC and console games are generally launched in similar states (obviously there will be exceptions) and people only talk about tweaking graphics settings on PC because you can.  For me personally,  I don't find PC gaming to be any more hassle than console gaming, once you've got your setup sorted it's pretty comparable.  The only difference is that PC gaming gives you loads more options if you want to use them (modding, for example), but you can just as easily play the games without worrying about that stuff at all.

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Yeah some of that discussion is "How do I make this fucking thing work?" but generally a lot of it is "How do I make this look and/or play EXTRA AWESOME?".

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37 minutes ago, Textface said:

You can't play a PC when you're cutting a rope on the honey bucket!

 

the steam link app says yeah you can :P

 well, at home anyway

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1 hour ago, Broker said:

The big thing is the time it takes to get into a game. On console, I’m waiting for the slow PS4 (or the glacial Xbone) to load it’s crap OS, download and install small files over several hours, wait for updates and load for what must add up to hours. On my PC, the OS boots in seconds, software opens in seconds, I rarely see loading screens and updates are always done before I notice them and they never stop me playing.

 

I think a lot of this is down to how regularly you use each machine. When I haven't powered up my PS4 in a while, sure, it feels like I need to do an update before I do practically anything (at least, anything with "internet features"). But back when I had my PC set up as a Hackintosh, and only booted into Windows to play games that required it, that was pretty much the same. Every time I opened up Steam there was a big download. Every time I shut down the PC there was a major update that needed to happen. Or at least it felt like that. These days I use my PS4 a lot and I boot into Windows a lot, so neither is really annoying at all.

 

It does bother me that on consoles these day, you need the disc, but all the content gets installed to the hard drive anyway, plus there are always updates even (perhaps especially) on day one. So you effectively have to wait for the same things you do on PC - download and installation - but you also need to wait for a physical thing to get delivered. Sure I could buy a digital copy, but that seems like a waste of money most of the time (although there are signs that is changing). For the next gen they should just ditch physical media entirely, if all it's going to be is a verification key. I'm saying that as someone with fairly crap internet. They would be probably able to drive down the price of games to near-PC levels, because of not needing to deal with the second hand market. There was such a massive backlash when Microsoft proposed restrictions around that last time though, so it'll never happen.

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16 hours ago, Dudley said:

Generally Pc gaming is as easy as console 99% of the time, but that 1% it's really fucking tricky.

 

Not sure why this post was negged as it seems pretty accurate to me, when everything works (and it does most of the time) it's great but when something does goes go wrong it's a fucking nightmare. I'd love to be able to play Raiden V but I get some error message that I cannot seem able to resolve so it sits unplayed, an issue I have simply never had on a console. Pairing controllers is always an interesting experience as well. I'm also going to stick to my guns on the Steam UI being a steaming pile of shit, whatever format it's in. The caveat here is that my only other platform is a Switch so I do not have any experience with the PS4/Xbone.

 

I say all this as someone with a gaming PC under the TV who has at various times been almost exclusively gaming on a PC with a controller. In the last two years though i've converted almost entirely to the Switch, it's a much quicker way of playing indie games and updates don't (always) have to be installed before playing a game. There are still a few things I use the PC for, and the fact I have an AV amp next to it means i'm not going to save any space getting rid of it. If it won't run Cyberpunk though (it's a gen2 i5 and 1070) then I may well move it on to new pastures.

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My Xbox One takes about a minute to be usable from the moment I switch it on. My PC loads windows 10 in about 3 seconds. Also my laptop is usable from flipping up the lid in about a second.  And since I don't use the Xbox often , it usually means that the monthly update is ready and waiting and takes about 15 minutes.  

 

Long boot times, OS updates, patches etc , are all specifically things that I associated with PC gaming. GTA3 on PC had multiple patches to faff with while the PS2 game of course didn't even connect to the internet.  I don't remember the PS2 game being an awful buggy mess, but it seems to me that many of the console players here are basing their experiences of PC gaming on a different era.  I'd argue that PC handles patches and updates better than console. Windows lets me use the PC normally while it downloads updates and lets me schedule the installation of them to be when I'm in bed.  The Ps4 and Xbox need me to set them off and leave them alone to download and install OS updates.

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I would say the amount of protestations from PC gamers in this thread nicely encapsulates why console is the platform of choice for so many. The perception is that it's expensive, difficult, slow, takes up a lot of space and you can't play it sat on the sofa. It is, to your average console gamer, what gaming was to your average person in the days before PS1 made it socially acceptable. And I can't see that changing anytime soon.

 

I suspect a big hurdle will be that that there isn't a single "PC" product and it doesn't have generations. There isn't the PC equivalent of a PS4, with a dedicated marketing team to promote it. You can't walk into Game and ask for the Call Of Duty PC bundle, with an extra controller. Let's face it, a console is just a (severely locked down and limited) PC in a nice looking box with a recognisable brand name on the front. And that's what most gamers want.

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This mismatch about updates is surely mostly about frequency of use. My PS4 downloads all its game updates overnight, I think it even takes firmware update automatically most of the time. But mine's in use a fair bit, and set up to do so. I am not sure you can reasonably highlight issues with patches etc at one "side" or the other.

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1 hour ago, Liamness said:

 

I think a lot of this is down to how regularly you use each machine. When I haven't powered up my PS4 in a while, sure, it feels like I need to do an update before I do practically anything (at least, anything with "internet features"). But back when I had my PC set up as a Hackintosh, and only booted into Windows to play games that required it, that was pretty much the same. Every time I opened up Steam there was a big download. Every time I shut down the PC there was a major update that needed to happen. Or at least it felt like that. These days I use my PS4 a lot and I boot into Windows a lot, so neither is really annoying at all.


Both are on every day as I use the PC for work and the PS4 is the family Netflix/YouTube machine on the main TV. Using it constantly it’s never the huge problem it is when you leave it a month, but I’m still more likely to find it downloading something massive very slowly than I am the PC. Even tiny updates on console seem to take hours, I need to leave the machine on overnight to download most mainstream games, where the PC does it in an hour. The Xbox is even slower, MCC took about three days.

 

43 minutes ago, dumpster said:

My Xbox One takes about a minute to be usable from the moment I switch it on. My PC loads windows 10 in about 3 seconds. Also my laptop is usable from flipping up the lid in about a second.  And since I don't use the Xbox often , it usually means that the monthly update is ready and waiting and takes about 15 minutes.  

 

Long boot times, OS updates, patches etc , are all specifically things that I associated with PC gaming. GTA3 on PC had multiple patches to faff with while the PS2 game of course didn't even connect to the internet.  I don't remember the PS2 game being an awful buggy mess, but it seems to me that many of the console players here are basing their experiences of PC gaming on a different era.  I'd argue that PC handles patches and updates better than console. Windows lets me use the PC normally while it downloads updates and lets me schedule the installation of them to be when I'm in bed.  The Ps4 and Xbox need me to set them off and leave them alone to download and install OS updates.


This basically. None of the reasons people are putting forward really exist anymore. The idea that a game might be unusable on release because hardware has not been something I’ve experienced, especially just using Steam and Epic.

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1 hour ago, dumpster said:

My Xbox One takes about a minute to be usable from the moment I switch it on. My PC loads windows 10 in about 3 seconds. Also my laptop is usable from flipping up the lid in about a second.  And since I don't use the Xbox often , it usually means that the monthly update is ready and waiting and takes about 15 minutes.  

 

I'd argue that PC handles patches and updates better than console. Windows lets me use the PC normally while it downloads updates and lets me schedule the installation of them to be when I'm in bed.  The Ps4 and Xbox need me to set them off and leave them alone to download and install OS updates.

 

As said in other threads. You don't really get to whine about the console having a long boot and hitting you with updates since you chose to set them up that way. 

 

If you stick them in instant on mode for Xbox and whatever for the PS4, they will download updates over night. You'll have quick boots and very very rarely see updates. 

 

If you're not willing to click a couple of buttons to change how the system runs, then stop complaining. Those issues are on you, not the system.

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The more I think baout it, the more I am conviced that ditching consoles for just a PC would be the absolute worse decision if you like video gaming . You would miss out on so much. SUre have one if you are so inclined to compliment your hobby, and perhaps have the ultimate version of certain games. But there are so many titles that are console exlcusive I couldn't even see myself going PC only (I actually can;t ever see my self buying a PC for gaming but thats by the by)

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I have a PC , I used to game on PC but I'm old now, I'm too tired, my work and family life is too hectic, I'm too casual, I just prefer the simplicity of the console ecosystem, I just don't have time to worry about textures and framerates and mods and multiple storefronts, it all just magically works when I slump on to my sofa and  press the button on my joypad and that's good enough for me now.

 

My 11 year old wants a gaming PC now, hes been saving up and has about £600. I'm really looking forward to helping him build one. He's done all the research himself on YT and I'm glad he's interested in tech but yeah, I just glaze over when I think about doing it for myself.

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Ditching the consoles and going PC only makes the forum dull as fuck. What's the point when everyone's playing the  goose game on their £750 graphics cards ?

Would Pc have the software to justify the investment if the console multiplats never existed ?  Does PC exclusive software built around the top end even exist ? 

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19 hours ago, Dudley said:

Generally Pc gaming is as easy as console 99% of the time, but that 1% it's really fucking tricky.

 

A thousand times this. PC gaming is easier than ever, but ease of use parity with consoles is nonsense.

 

I've recently recovered my old 5.1 system, because I was tired of adjusting the sound output between voices and action scenes watching the entire Avengers saga. These speakers worked perfectly with my entire system 3 years ago, therefore I expected no problems now:

 

PS4 - Check

PS3 - Check

Xbox One - Check

Xbox 360 - Check

PC with SoundBlaster Z - No 5.1

 

DD/DTS was disabled in the SB control panel. I try to enable it, but can't because "this device is in use". The usual answers in internet don't help (reinstall, update drivers, update windows) After a few hours, finally, finally, I find an unexpected and correct answer. MIC access (not to mention the rest of those W10 privacy options) is disabled for apps, I enable it and can finally set DD/DTS on. I can even fine tune it, there's a check in the MIC privacy options that allows to keep it off, while allowing access to the MIC by standard windows programs.

 

I'm sure there's an explanation why setting the MIC off for apps affected the SBZ DD/DTS optical output, but my point is, if I almost gave up on this, the general user wouldn't even try.

 

I now have another 1% riddle. After a few seconds, The Witcher 2 reboots the PC, no BSOD, no warning, no nothing. Like 5.1, this has worked before. The internet answers are the usual, with a new one, power supply. I don't see how a 700W power supply which works perfectly with my entire collection, including The Witcher 3, could be the culprit, but for now, fuck this.

 

As easy as consoles, lol.

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58 minutes ago, KartoffelKopf said:

I just don't have time to worry about textures and framerates and mods and multiple storefronts

 

This keeps coming up. I think the only time I've ever used mods is when I was replaying Mass Effect to make it look how I remembered it, if that makes sense. It's not a difficult thing to avoid. If you don't want to mess around with mods... then just don't. It's like someone saying they don't want to play Minecraft because they're not interested in joining a PvP server and roleplaying as a Jedi.

 

1 hour ago, PeteBrant said:

The more I think baout it, the more I am conviced that ditching consoles for just a PC would be the absolute worse decision if you like video gaming . You would miss out on so much. SUre have one if you are so inclined to compliment your hobby, and perhaps have the ultimate version of certain games. But there are so many titles that are console exlcusive I couldn't even see myself going PC only (I actually can;t ever see my self buying a PC for gaming but thats by the by)

 

Yeah, I expect I'll do a similar thing as this console generation - wait until it's halfway through and the cheaper, slimmer, quieter versions are out, and play all the games I've missed. I do prefer to play on PC, but I'm not going to cut my nose to spite my face. I might rethink this if Sony's exclusive games end up coming to PC (you can bet I'll be buying HZD if the rumours are true, just to vote with my wallet), or are all available on streaming and I somehow come into posession of an internet connection where that is a realistic option.

 

49 minutes ago, Boozy The Clown said:

What's the point when everyone's playing the  goose game on their £750 graphics cards ?

 

I did recently play through Untitled Goose Game (and What the Golf?, plus I've started Baba is You) on my PC, so this does hit home somewhat. My graphics card cost me £100, but point taken. I will probably replace it in the autumn with something much more expensive, and still spend a lot of time just playing low-end / indie titles.

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