Jump to content
rllmuk
Sign in to follow this  
kerraig UK

This is the end.

Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, Uncle Mike said:

I've been racking my brain trying to think of a TV series that both ended well and hadn't overstayed its welcome first. I don't think I can name one.

 

Even something finite and well-crafted like Parks and Rec had an unnecessary final season.


I prefer the later seasons of 30 Rock, where they’ve had time to really settle into the characters. I also love that after being intensely cynical and depressing for the whole run, the finale leans hard into being emotional and optimistic. 

 

3 hours ago, JPL said:

I’m not sure about that. Infinity War and Endgame are the pinnacle of Marvel movies. Brilliantly written, brilliantly acted and brilliantly directed. A really satisfying end to a ten year journey. Yeah, there’s been a few weaker entries along the way, but they managed to build it up to an excellent crescendo and haven’t coasted at all. Saying they’re not worried about making a decent film because kids just want to buy the toys isn't really fair or true.

 

Saying that, I’d be quite happy if they left it there for now, or at least leave it a while before taking us on the next epic journey.


I just don’t see them that way. Infinity War was great, though even that one has some problems with redundant scenes seemingly designed for the trailer and giant faceless CGI armies that mean nothing. But I thought Endgame was rubbish for the first two hours, and then stuttered along to a boring conclusion, where an army of Robert Downey Jrs saves the world. 
 

That’s my big problem with the MCU. The first movies try for a variety of tones, but by the end of phase two they’ve decided that it’s only going to work if every film is the same structure as Iron Man and every character has his tone and attitude. None of the serious moments land for me anymore, because there’s always a hundred people ready with a quip (with the ending of Infinity War being a notable exception that I loved). Everyone is snippy and sarcastic, and they’re all worse at it than Downey was. They’re often visibly jockeying for position to be the one to make a silly joke about the serious thing. Disney are so terrified of their giant investments failing that now everyone is the same character, and everything has the same plot. And the vast majority of it is just the plot and character of that one movie they had to make sure they did well because they had no good IP to sell it on. 

  • Upvote 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, JPL said:

I’m not sure about that. Infinity War and Endgame are the pinnacle of Marvel movies. Brilliantly written, brilliantly acted and brilliantly directed. A really satisfying end to a ten year journey. Yeah, there’s been a few weaker entries along the way, but they managed to build it up to an excellent crescendo and haven’t coasted at all. Saying they’re not worried about making a decent film because kids just want to buy the toys isn't really fair or true.

 

Saying that, I’d be quite happy if they left it there for now, or at least leave it a while before taking us on the next epic journey.

Endgame was hot trash tho

  • Upvote 2
  • Downvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Broker said:


I prefer the later seasons of 30 Rock, where they’ve had time to really settle into the characters. I also love that after being intensely cynical and depressing for the whole run, the finale leans hard into being emotional and optimistic. 

 


I just don’t see them that way. Infinity War was great, though even that one has some problems with redundant scenes seemingly designed for the trailer and giant faceless CGI armies that mean nothing. But I thought Endgame was rubbish for the first two hours, and then stuttered along to a boring conclusion, where an army of Robert Downey Jrs saves the world. 
 

That’s my big problem with the MCU. The first movies try for a variety of tones, but by the end of phase two they’ve decided that it’s only going to work if every film is the same structure as Iron Man and every character has his tone and attitude. None of the serious moments land for me anymore, because there’s always a hundred people ready with a quip (with the ending of Infinity War being a notable exception that I loved). Everyone is snippy and sarcastic, and they’re all worse at it than Downey was. They’re often visibly jockeying for position to be the one to make a silly joke about the serious thing. Disney are so terrified of their giant investments failing that now everyone is the same character, and everything has the same plot. And the vast majority of it is just the plot and character of that one movie they had to make sure they did well because they had no good IP to sell it on. 

I can sort of get with your point about them all wise-cracking, but I still think there are enough different characters with different personalities that it works. You don’t see Black Panther, Hawkeye, Scarlet Witch or Vision dishing out any comedy lines, so as a whole I think it hangs together.

 

I can’t get with you telling me that all the Marvel films are the same plot as the first Iron Man film though. That’s just not the case.

 

I also think they’ve managed to mix things up in tone when needed as well. You have more light hearted stuff like Thor: Ragnarok, Ant Man, etc, then you have more serious stuff like Civil War, Winter Soldier, etc and then there’s the epic stuff like Infinity War and Endgame. It’s been a decent spread overall, even though they all obviously have to fit within the superhero genre.

 

It’s all just opinions though and I can understand the fatigue for some people. I just think you’re doing them a bit of a disservice saying they’re all the same plot with all the same personalities.

 

29 minutes ago, kerraig UK said:

Endgame was hot trash tho

Nah, it was great. Seeing it as the second part of the Infinity War story really helps as well.

 

It was a great ending to an excellent (generally) entry into blockbuster films.

  • Upvote 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The key difference between TV and the vast, vast majority of movies is there is a certain contract that exists between the audience and the latter that isn't present with the former.

 

If I sit down to watch a film (or at least one that isn't explicitly part of a block buster movie franchise) there's an implied contract that I'm going to see a story that has a beginning, a middle and an end. That ending may be an 'open-ended' or ambiguous ending, but will definitely be an ending.

 

That contract simply doesn't exist on tv any more. If I sit down to watch S1 E01 of just about any tv show, I have, with very few exceptions, absolutely no way of knowing if I will ever get an ending. Obviously, at some point it'll stop, but that's not the same as an ending.

 

And I can't stand that. I'm sick of watching a dozen hours of tv only to find that the series finished with a kind-of-an-ending but mostly a to-be-continued-please-don't-cancel-us-pretty-please. How many hours do I have to watch to get an ending? Am I even even going to get one before the show is cancelled. Or worse, will it just go on for so long that by the time the end comes it'll have fully jumped the shark?

 

This didn't use to be the case. *Grandpa Simpson voice* Back when I was young tv drama could be put into two broad types: mini-series and syndicated shows. Mini-series were basically long, cheap films broken into tv sized chunks. And syndicated shows had a story, complete with a beginning, middle and end, in every show. That way that could show regular repeats on any given channel and not worry if the viewer hadn't seen every prior episode in order.

 

I wasn't watching Quantum Leap to find out if Sam got home. I was watching to find out what amazing story would happen this week. It was nice to have that final episode but I'd still love the show if it didn't.

 

Most people seem to think that modern tv is in some kind of 'golden age' but for me it just takes too much time. If I watch a series that gets stops without a proper ending I just feel like I've been cheated. That time feels wasted.

 

Stories have endings. Otherwise it's just a soap opera that got cancelled.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With tv it’s not that i care about there being an ending but the show might promise the downfall of a reprehensible lead character which then they can’t follow with so endlessly construct ways for them to get away with it. You know everything is constructed anyway, but you’re sat there hoping to see the one thing it’s spent 25 hours building to never be fulfilled while they waste time on the relationships of minor characters. I just about forgave The Shield but House Of Cards took the piss. Then the producers say; oh you thought it was about that? Oh no no it was always about the characters, look here’s a character! You care about them right? 
 

Isn’t every film just; this part of this character’s life. Stuff happened before, stuff happens after. I don’t need an ending so much as a crescendo. A film can transform in the last 30 minutes based on everything it’s built in the first 90 minutes. It pulls you in. I always want films to escalate, become more intense. 
 

Mad Men at times ambled along. You want Don to do more pitches because he’s great at them but all he does is drink. New season! Don is still mopey. Okay 4 episodes in not been much pitching happening maybe they’re saving the good stuff till the end. 


With tv shows they just live or die on the characters, and i guess how effective they are at bringing the best out of them, creating that conflict in scenes and situations. With Lost it was just; please resolve the central mystery. 

 

With something like Six Feet Under it didn’t need an ending and i thought parts of what they went with was silly. It was as laid back as a soap, their lives were uneventful. I never watched season 2 and 3 needing eventual closure. I wanted to see more because it was funny, i didn’t care where the characters were in their lives. 
 

24 never got an ending, never moved Jack on. Maybe one day it’s ripe for something, when everyone has forgotten how they messed it up introducing family members. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, JPL said:

I can sort of get with your point about them all wise-cracking, but I still think there are enough different characters with different personalities that it works. You don’t see Hawkeye, dishing out any comedy lines,

 

 

Hawkeye quips his way throughout Age of Ultron.

 

However, he was the best thing in it by a mile.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did like the end of This Is The End. Made up for the whole rest of the movie. You can't go wrong with a song and a dance at the end.

 

 

 

 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Uncle Mike said:

I've been racking my brain trying to think of a TV series that both ended well and hadn't overstayed its welcome first. I don't think I can name one.

 

Even something finite and well-crafted like Parks and Rec had an unnecessary final season.

The ending of Catastrophe was superb; a series that finished at just the right time. Great choice of song as well to add to the emotion of it all. One of my favourite TV moments. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Uncle Mike said:

I've been racking my brain trying to think of a TV series that both ended well and hadn't overstayed its welcome first. I don't think I can name one.

 

Even something finite and well-crafted like Parks and Rec had an unnecessary final season.

 

The Americans. 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I miss the days of a TV series being a self contained episode where you could literally just watch that episode and need no knowledge of what happened before, or after. A well crafted story that fitted into 30 minutes or at most an hour.

 

While some series like Breaking Bad, The Sopranos, Mad Men are brilliant at taking you along for a very long ride, with long story arcs set over multiple episodes, the majority of TV programmes now are bloated and disjointed. Why have 6x1 Hour episodes when you have have 10? Why limit it to an amazing, single series, when you can just regurgitate the same old shite for another one... or two.. or three series (hello, Stranger Things!) 

 

Maybe it's because most TV seems to be designed around something in the background while people look at their phones. It doesn't need to grab your attention, it doesn't need to make you wait for another week for the next episode, it doesn't need for you to be at one specific time point on a specific day anymore. It's just there to fill up some of your evening to justify why you spend £10 a month on your streaming subscription. Oh look. Another Netflix original series is starting next month. Guess I should keep my subscription going!

 

Even the BBC is suffering from the inability to have tightly written TV series now. Take a look at Dracula. 3 episodes. Each 90 minutes long. Each episode the running length of some of the greatest films ever made, yet in Dracula almost nothing happens. The film Brad Stoker's Dracula had a running time of 155 minutes. The BBC TV series had a running time of 270 minutes yet managed to say nothing compared to the film, never mind not being anywhere near as memorable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, DukeOfEarlsfield said:

The same kind of people who thought The Masked Singer was a good idea?

 

You're comparing apples and oranges there. Reality saturday night TV can't be compared to films or TV like Breaking Bad and GOT. The Masked Singer isn't story driven.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Use of this website is subject to our Privacy Policy, Terms of Use, and Guidelines.