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Robo_1

Next Gen Specs & Speculation

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Good stuff. Couple of things:

 

Isn’t the 1X 6tf, not 4tf?

 

And what do you mean by this?:

 

“A pure beast of a machine, which would raise the power stakes beyond anything we've previously seen between generations.”

 

Really? Series X is only twice the graphical power of the current-gen MS equivalent (1X). Or do you mean vs Xbone, or overall performance power (inc. CPU/memory) but do we have a comparable metric for that?

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3 minutes ago, jonamok said:

Good stuff. Couple of things:

 

Isn’t the 1X 6tf, not 4tf?

 

And what do you mean by this?:

 

“A pure beast of a machine, which would raise the power stakes beyond anything we've previously seen between generations.”

 

Really? Series X is only twice the graphical power of the current-gen MS equivalent (1X). Or do you mean vs Xbone, or overall performance power (inc. CPU/memory) but do we have a comparable metric for that?

 

Yes, you're quite right about the 1X, I've updated that.

 

As to the "pure beast" comment, I think this is the first time that a new console has launched, that's in line with the best PC graphics tech of the day. Particularly if you compare it to the baseline Xbox One, the leap in power from a 1.23tf machine to a 12tf one, is surely one of the biggest leaps we've seen between the generations. It's not just the graphics tech, it's the leap in CPU power and the switch to SSD storage. I think I'm right in saying this is the biggest leap we've ever had.

There is a little voice in the back of my head, which thinks of how powerful a chip CELL was back in the day, but the graphics chip let the PS3 down and I think the whole PS3 package wasn't quite the same jump as we're potentially looking at here.

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If the Xbox is a 56 compute unit part then it must be RDNA2 as RDNA1 is limited to 40 compute units, which could give it an even bigger advantage over the PS5 if that is sticking with RDNA1 than what the raw numbers show.

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I don’t understand why MS would release the Series S with less power than the current One X.

 

Won’t a lot of games will be cross-gen for a while and presumably the One X would run better and be cheaper than a Series S?

 

I’m probably missing something obvious, but that seems a bit weird to me.

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Well, it will still be a huge leap in terms of everything besides the GPU. The One X is basically a contemporary GPU paired with other components (memory, RAM etc) that wouldn't be out of place in a laptop from 2011.

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8 minutes ago, Liamness said:

Well, it will still be a huge leap in terms of everything besides the GPU. The One X is basically a contemporary GPU paired with other components (memory, RAM etc) that wouldn't be out of place in a laptop from 2011.

Ah yeah, I knew I’d forget something. Still, it’ll be interesting to see how they all perform.

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I'll be very interested in how the game save syncing works for Sony next gen.  The manual faff around having to upload game saves on a non primary Ps4 just makes me go for the xbox version if I have the choice since that sync everything automatically to the cloud.   With Sony using MS Azure they might have equivalence on that hopefully. 

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I wouldn't compare tflops in a console to tflops in a PC GPU though, as performance won't be the same.  Maybe on AMD's end, but a 12 tflop console gpu won't run like a 12 tflop nvidia GPU.  The nvidia GPU would run games better, technically.  A 12 tflop console would probably run more similarly to a 9 tflop GPU, which isn't exactly top of the line nowadays, but its definitely quite an upgrade regardless, especially if the pricing is decent.  Tflop ratings have always been weird, which is why people don't compare the tflops on AMD gpus vs the tflops on Nvidia gpus.  It isn't the full picture of performance.

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8 hours ago, JPL said:

I don’t understand why MS would release the Series S with less power than the current One X.

 

You can be pretty sure that the lower powered version will be equal in performance to the One X...a 4TFflop RDN2 GPU will be just as fast as a 6Tflop One X GPU or near enough as to make no tangible difference...in PC terms, it would be like the difference between a 2070 Super and a 2080, its there but you won't notice it.

 

Microsoft are basically setting One X performance as a minimum baseline for next gen, you could buy it and have a machine powerful enough to run everything that the One X can, combine that with the vastly superior CPU and storage solution it will be like a One X Ti. :)

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9 hours ago, Robo_1 said:

The next Xbox will be able to run games from every previous generation of Xbox.

 

Does this mean any and all games (Outrun 2006!) or just the current backwards compatible list the One works from?

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7 minutes ago, RJ Badman said:

 

Does this mean any and all games (Outrun 2006!) or just the current backwards compatible list the One works from?

It's just whatever is currently backwards compatible. I think the BC team have said they're restarting their BC efforts after the new consoles are out, so we'll have more going forward. 

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Yeah the phrasing is the giveaway "Games from every previous generation".  That's true of the Xbox One as well.

 

Which means if you want a game where the licencing, or the company itself has expired (Outrun 2006!) you're probably SOL.

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2 hours ago, MpM said:

 

You can be pretty sure that the lower powered version will be equal in performance to the One X...a 4TFflop RDN2 GPU will be just as fast as a 6Tflop One X GPU or near enough as to make no tangible difference...in PC terms, it would be like the difference between a 2070 Super and a 2080, its there but you won't notice it.

 

Microsoft are basically setting One X performance as a minimum baseline for next gen, you could buy it and have a machine powerful enough to run everything that the One X can, combine that with the vastly superior CPU and storage solution it will be like a One X Ti. :)

Whereas Sony appear to be setting the minimum baseline at around 9tp, or 1.5x more powerful than the One X, which in itself is interesting as devs have more power from the off. 

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Those mooted PS5 specs are very odd. Even if we assume 9.2Tf is the actual performance target, having 36 Compute Units clocked at 2Ghz isn't a very efficient way to get there; makes more sense for a console to have a greater number of CUs that are clocked lower, as it would improve yields and reliability.

 

I'm leaning towards the GitHub test data being for an RDNA1-based dev kit that's clocked high to get it as close to final performance as possible – which would go some way to explaining the unusual, vent-heavy design  – whereas the retail hardware will be more 'RDNA1.5' featuring a greater number of slower CUs.

 

Personally I expect the PS5 and XSX to be pretty comparable in CPU/GPU terms, with the differentiating factors being around the sides, e.g. Microsoft has a bigger RAM pool whilst Sony's machine can shift data from the SSD into memory quicker.

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All this talk about flops etc and I'm betting my 2080Ti with 13.4 teraflops won't be running console centric games much better, and probably even worse, than PS5/XBSX down the line. 

 

 

Hurry up 3080TI

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21 minutes ago, Ferine said:

Those mooted PS5 specs are very odd. Even if we assume 9.2Tf is the actual performance target, having 36 Compute Units clocked at 2Ghz isn't a very efficient way to get there; makes more sense for a console to have a greater number of CUs that are clocked lower, as it would improve yields and reliability.

 

I'm leaning towards the GitHub test data being for an RDNA1-based dev kit that's clocked high to get it as close to final performance as possible – which would go some way to explaining the unusual, vent-heavy design  – whereas the retail hardware will be more 'RDNA1.5' featuring a greater number of slower CUs.

 

Personally I expect the PS5 and XSX to be pretty comparable in CPU/GPU terms, with the differentiating factors being around the sides, e.g. Microsoft has a bigger RAM pool whilst Sony's machine can shift data from the SSD into memory quicker.

That setup does allow Sony to easily clock it down for PS4 Pro BC mode as was discussed in the PS5 thread. The early PS4 dev kits were also big old beasts. 

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7 hours ago, mdn2 said:

It's just whatever is currently backwards compatible. I think the BC team have said they're restarting their BC efforts after the new consoles are out, so we'll have more going forward. 


None of the Kinect stuff from XB1 is BC either. Not that anyone will care about that. :p

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Phil Spencer's changed his profile pic to the Scarlett chip.  Looks to be big enough to support the 56CU leak.  Around 340-380mm².

 

Er, phwooar, or something.

 

 

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I’d be tempted by the Xbox if it’s the more powerful of the two like it seems to be. Won’t go Sony (see 2015 Watchdog episodes). 
 

If the PS has another version that trumps it then I’ll probably just stay with PC. I’ve got a fairly powerful system but I imagine I’d need an upgrade that would be more costly than the new Xbox should I wish to leapfrog it and I last upgraded for 4K60 which this is supposed to do. 
 

Which brings me onto the next question. Will these really be 4K60 or will we still see 30fps games? Everyone thought last gen would mean 1080/60. The existence of a lower spec model suggests that would be the 30fps machine but it also makes me wonder if it will be the true spec with devs just making games for that and upping to 4K60 on the more powerful machine, making all that extra power and cost a bit wasted on just resolution and frame rate. If that’s the case I’d be better off sticking with a PC where I can already do that. 
 

It’s normally the football games that sell me on new consoles. Will be interested to see what fifa and pes look like but I’m sceptical they’ll bother doing much. Both make loads of money just churning out things on the same old engines and it’s not like there’s a competitor forcing them to up their game. Who’ll blink first? With so much retro themed indies stuff about, people no longer demand that everything on a new console be super shiny and use the power. That’s a good and a bad thing, leading to more diversity but also less pressure to step up and make something impressive. 

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If Phil really is flashing that over on twitter then he knows they've got the grunt. He will be savvy about the current internet talk about XBSX being beefier than PS5 and that pic is him commenting on the speculation. He's confident with their specs.

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21 hours ago, JPL said:

I don’t understand why MS would release the Series S with less power than the current One X.

 

Won’t a lot of games will be cross-gen for a while and presumably the One X would run better and be cheaper than a Series S?

 

I’m probably missing something obvious, but that seems a bit weird to me.

 

I can believe it. General public don't know anything about specs and MS have learned the benefit of offering a cut down version of their system with a lower price tag to build an install base.

 

...

 

I'm interested to see how well these new machines support ray tracing. And this video about how they could be using the super fast SSDs is intriguing: (unless it's old news)

 

 

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Also, where’s the hdmi port(s)?

 

Edit: Actually, is that 2 x HDMI ports and 2 x USBC ports?

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